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Thread: Issues in the game

  1. #51
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    All SL teams to have an youth set up and or second string "A team".
    RFL or governing body to fund Amateur set up and Kids RL projects that are affiliated with schools.

  2. #52
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    Quite a lot to take in here. I've got a lot of thoughts, which I may type up shortly. But if a letter is to be written, my preference would be to focus on the key issues. Whilst there are countless issues, I think the best approach would be to attempt to reach a consensus on the key themes.

    Whilst Sky's coverage is poor at times, is it really a central issue? Is it more important that the fact that we change our league structure every few years (showing poor governance)? Is it a bigger issue than falling participation and stagnating stadium attendances, with Wembley being 1/3 empty for Saints v Warrington in 2019, the first time the sides have ever met at Wembley?

    A good starting point here would be making a list of issues impacting the sport, no matter how big or small. Then put them in order of priority and go from there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RV12 View Post
    Quite a lot to take in here. I've got a lot of thoughts, which I may type up shortly. But if a letter is to be written, my preference would be to focus on the key issues. Whilst there are countless issues, I think the best approach would be to attempt to reach a consensus on the key themes.

    Whilst Sky's coverage is poor at times, is it really a central issue? Is it more important that the fact that we change our league structure every few years (showing poor governance)? Is it a bigger issue than falling participation and stagnating stadium attendances, with Wembley being 1/3 empty for Saints v Warrington in 2019, the first time the sides have ever met at Wembley?

    A good starting point here would be making a list of issues impacting the sport, no matter how big or small. Then put them in order of priority and go from there.
    Id say yes because SKY’s influence equates to more than their coverage. Their involvement is a big factor in RL’s constant changes of direction and silly gimmicks. Likewise the creation of magic weekend to enable a (small) jewel in the SKY portfolio has harmed Wembley attendances, especially as the Challenge Cup was talked down by the likes of Edfie Hemmings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Id say yes because SKY’s involvement equates to more than their coverage. Their influence is a big factor in RL’s constant changes of direction and silly gimmicks. Likewise the creation of magic weekend to enable a (small) jewel in the SKY portfolio has harmed Wembley attendances, especially as the Challenge Cup was talked down by the likes of Edfie Hemmings.
    I think that this is where a letter could become difficult as you're always going to have differences of opinion regarding the smaller issues. I quite enjoy MW for example, and I'm not convinced that it was this that harmed the CC (I see your reasoning though)
    I agree with RV12. Start with a list of everything mentioned so far, then pick out the favourites. The ones we all moan about.

    Edit. Constant tinkering with the format would be my No1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallaght Tiger View Post
    All SL teams to have an youth set up and or second string "A team".
    RFL or governing body to fund Amateur set up and Kids RL projects that are affiliated with schools.
    Unfortunately TT the A teams have effectively become the likes of Oldham, Hunslet and Barrow. These teams lost their independence/identity and ambition when Hetherington was advocating dual registrations and ultimately won his way. Im not sure its benefitted the game at all. Was one of RGs pet subjects.
    Last edited by eddiewaringsflatcap; 7th February 2021 at 22:57.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    I think that this is where a letter could become difficult as you're always going to have differences of opinion regarding the smaller issues. I quite enjoy MW for example, and I'm not convinced that it was this that harmed the CC (I see your reasoning though)
    I agree with RV12. Start with a list of everything mentioned so far, then pick out the favourites. The ones we all moan about.

    Edit. Constant tinkering with the format would be my No1
    Yeah agree, but i’d just add im not anti MW. If it benefits the game and the majority are for it then its a logical argument for its continuance. I cant see the majority favouring changing the comp rules every 2 or 3 years however.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Yeah agree, but i’d just add im not anti MW. If it benefits the game and the majority are for it then its a logical argument for its continuance. I cant see the majority favouring changing the comp rules every 2 or 3 years however.
    Magic Weekend needs to be binned.

    Pointless. Never seen it remotely full

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Magic Weekend needs to be binned.

    Pointless. Never seen it remotely full
    Yeah, give us another day out at Salford or Hull KR instead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Magic Weekend needs to be binned.

    Pointless. Never seen it remotely full
    I struggle to see the point of it. To me it is one of the examples to be used to evidence poor leadership. It was originally conceived as a way to showcase the game to possible expansion areas and/or new areas such as Cardiff and Edinburgh but then soon after ended up right back at Manchester. Its found a home at Newcastle by accident rather than by design.

    Its hard to be excited by ot because there is only 2 points at stake in the middle if the season. Ive been ambivalent to it because it feels a creation to pander to SKY than something that would ever add merit. You are right about it always looking empty; are many (especially those with families) going to sit through 3 games like some sort of trainspotter. I dont think it helps the game other than to add a trace of credibility to playoffs as it means, along with the loop fixtures, that all teams in the League have played different opponents.

    As i say its another example of blurred thinking by the sport, its difficult to understand what MW is for and what the intentions are for the future because the strategy for the sport is opaque at the best of times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Magic Weekend needs to be binned.

    Pointless. Never seen it remotely full
    Do the RFL pocket the ticket money for it?

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    I read an article the other week about scrapping Old Trafford as the grand final venue and I thought they were talking crazy, but the more I think about it the more I like it. What they proposed was a Super Bowl type staging of the Grand Final at a different venue each year instead of just at OT. Getting different clubs to bid for it as they did with Magic. I would love to see the GF at Tottenham's new stadium one year, then Cardiff the next, or Newcastle, Emirates. I am Manchester United supporter so on a personal note I wouldn't mind it staying at Old Trafford but if we are going to get people from around the country interested, this is the best short term way to do it while we improve our international game etc. We aren't selling out the Grand Final anyway, why not send it to these 55-70 thousand seater stadiums? For it to work though, Magic has to go. Neutrals are less likely to be able to go to a GF if they want to go to Catalans, Wembley and Magic

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintJon View Post
    I read an article the other week about scrapping Old Trafford as the grand final venue and I thought they were talking crazy, but the more I think about it the more I like it. What they proposed was a Super Bowl type staging of the Grand Final at a different venue each year instead of just at OT. Getting different clubs to bid for it as they did with Magic. I would love to see the GF at Tottenham's new stadium one year, then Cardiff the next, or Newcastle, Emirates. I am Manchester United supporter so on a personal note I wouldn't mind it staying at Old Trafford but if we are going to get people from around the country interested, this is the best short term way to do it while we improve our international game etc. We aren't selling out the Grand Final anyway, why not send it to these 55-70 thousand seater stadiums? For it to work though, Magic has to go. Neutrals are less likely to be able to go to a GF if they want to go to Catalans, Wembley and Magic
    Again, same questions. What is the decision making process? Who was consulted through this? Etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Again, same questions. What is the decision making process? Who was consulted through this? Etc.
    It was just a suggestion by a RL reporter. I'm guessing if it ever did come to fruition, it would be taken to a vote as are most decisions. Clubs that are interested would bid, and the RFL would decide where the GF should be held.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintJon View Post
    I read an article the other week about scrapping Old Trafford as the grand final venue and I thought they were talking crazy, but the more I think about it the more I like it. What they proposed was a Super Bowl type staging of the Grand Final at a different venue each year instead of just at OT. Getting different clubs to bid for it as they did with Magic. I would love to see the GF at Tottenham's new stadium one year, then Cardiff the next, or Newcastle, Emirates. I am Manchester United supporter so on a personal note I wouldn't mind it staying at Old Trafford but if we are going to get people from around the country interested, this is the best short term way to do it while we improve our international game etc. We aren't selling out the Grand Final anyway, why not send it to these 55-70 thousand seater stadiums? For it to work though, Magic has to go. Neutrals are less likely to be able to go to a GF if they want to go to Catalans, Wembley and Magic
    In my opinion that would be a poor decision, over the last decade the Grand Final has been on average 65k + attendance. There are not that many club stadiums that size, other stadiums like Wembley struggle for atmosphere, Old Traffiord has both capacity and atmosphere.

    I would possibly look at spreading the Challenge Cup Semi Finals out a bit to other stadiums to give neutrals a live view opportunity to see our game.

    Grand Final at Old Trafford...............Magic at Newcastle...............CC Semi Finals at Aston Villa/WestBrom/Birmingham.............CC Final at Wembley.
    Last edited by STIDDY; 8th February 2021 at 09:50.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintJon View Post
    I read an article the other week about scrapping Old Trafford as the grand final venue and I thought they were talking crazy, but the more I think about it the more I like it. What they proposed was a Super Bowl type staging of the Grand Final at a different venue each year instead of just at OT. Getting different clubs to bid for it as they did with Magic. I would love to see the GF at Tottenham's new stadium one year, then Cardiff the next, or Newcastle, Emirates. I am Manchester United supporter so on a personal note I wouldn't mind it staying at Old Trafford but if we are going to get people from around the country interested, this is the best short term way to do it while we improve our international game etc. We aren't selling out the Grand Final anyway, why not send it to these 55-70 thousand seater stadiums? For it to work though, Magic has to go. Neutrals are less likely to be able to go to a GF if they want to go to Catalans, Wembley and Magic
    I think scrapping Old Trafford to go touring the country with the Grand Final is a terrible idea, i dont see any more people going to it if it was in London, Birmingham or other places at the moment, if anything i see far less going to it. What Old Trafford has going for it is that it is pretty central to where the vast majority of the clubs and fans are, so we would be moving it away from where the vast majority of people who watch the sport are and losing the neutral fan from attendance.

    If you want to move it from Old Trafford then i can only think of the Etihad as the right sort of alternative venue currently, whilst we do need to grow the game, i dont think moving the Grand Final wiuld have the effect you would like.

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    Yeah, I’d keep the Grand Final where it is. The Cup Final and Magic, I’d be more inclined to offer them out to tender, though some people really did get upset that we took Magic from Newcastle, though that could be due to the venue we went to, Anfield and it’s location in relation to the city centre etc.
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    In my opinion the Magic Weekend came about because SKY saw how popular the Challenge Cup final at Cardiff and decided that they could do something similar rhat would cover a full Weekend of TV.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    In my opinion that would be a poor decision, over the last decade the Grand Final has been on average 65k + attendance. There are not that many club stadiums that size, other stadiums like Wembley struggle for atmosphere, Old Traffiord has both capacity and atmosphere.

    I would possibly look at spreading the Challenge Cup Semi Finals out a bit to other stadiums to give neutrals a live view opportunity to see our game.

    Grand Final at Old Trafford...............Magic at Newcastle...............CC Semi Finals at Aston Villa/WestBrom/Birmingham.............CC Final at Wembley.
    I'm not sure the CC final can be moved from Wembley for a while. Sure we have an agreement to play it there until 2025?

    Could be wrong but pretty sure we have

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    [QUOTE=Dos Cervezas;812436]Yeah, I’d keep the Grand Final where it is. The Cup Final and Magic, I’d be more inclined to offer them out to tender, though some people really did get upset that we took Magic from Newcastle, though that could be due to the venue we went to, Anfield and it’s location in relation to the city centre

    Yeah I agree. I think it's the CC final that needs work. Not working at Wembley for me although we are stuck there for a few years yet

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    double post

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    The different ideas and frequency with which they are trialled in very important areas of our game is an underlying issue in this thread. At their root cause is a sport that is failing; its audiences are dwindling and new ideas and changes have misguidedly been used as an instant panacea to cure that: a host of different rule changes, overhaul of League structure and venue changes to reconnect the game to old supporters and spread it to new ones alike. They have generally failed to ignite excitement nor have they been implemented with any skill or purpose.

    Perhaps one reason why these ideas fail is because there is little or no transparency on how those decisions have been reached: what data supports them and who was consulted. It seems that an idea can be raised by the media or a couple of influential talking heads amongst the sports owners and boom! It just happens. The accompanying lack of accountability for the abject failures of some of these ideas (my all time favourite was a WC featuring Lebanon vs New Zealand Maori at Reading on a damp Tuesday night watched by next to no one) just perpetuates that failure.

    There needs to be more stability in our game, this achieved by including the right stakeholders and ensuring new ideas are supported by fact and reason. How anyone ever thought there was a 'connect' to having a SL team in Toronto the Lord himself would fathom to understand. If this is achieved the sport won't look so desperate all the time and will look a more attractive proposition for media and public..

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    Commercial presentation and profile
    • Sponsorship and Marketing
    • Television coverage
    • Branding

    Governance
    • Lack of cohesion between RFL / SL / Club owners
    • Competition structure and rule changes

    Are we on the right track with this as a skeleton structure of how it would look? Please add extra bullets and I'll take another look.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Commercial presentation and profile
    • Sponsorship and Marketing
    • Television coverage
    • Branding

    Governance
    • Lack of cohesion between RFL / SL / Club owners
    • Competition structure and rule changes

    Are we on the right track with this as a skeleton structure of how it would look? Please add extra bullets and I'll take another look.
    Officiating, how do we improve the officials we have, how do we recruit better ones, how do we improve the way the game is run on a match day, especially when the game isnt on Sky, we cant have 2 different systems used in the league.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsepho View Post
    Officiating, how do we improve the officials we have, how do we recruit better ones, how do we improve the way the game is run on a match day, especially when the game isnt on Sky, we cant have 2 different systems used in the league.
    The standard of refs has come up for a lot of people and I don't think it can be dismissed as readily as the likes of Ganson would like; if it could be then why are the Australian/New Zealanders so reluctant to accept British officials in test matches? Why can't we introduce two refs, as the NRL has done, for SL matches?

    However I'd suggest that goes under a broader heading of something like on field standards as we can't have a credible comp when the officiating is so inconsistent. It may also enable the concerns about the poor record/systems youth development in certain areas, lack of harmony over player development etc which no doubt is a key reason as to why change is necessary to overcome the appalling record of the national team; to have last won something of note over 40 years ago is a national disgrace.

    @gray77 - like what you've done so far. As I've said there's probably a proposal to accompany the letter as to what we'd like to see and how it may best be achieved.

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    The biggest short term issue atm is getting something in place regarding Catalans. If France follows Germany's lead and doesn't allow anyone into the country, then the RFL need a plan. Whether that's Catalans playing the first half of the season in England and 2nd half in France I don't know, but contingencies must be put in place.

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