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Thread: Issues in the game

  1. #26
    Starting A Programme Collection sinkers89's Avatar
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    Development of Cumbrian RL.

    Stadium development - A structured plan over 5 years.

    A list of minimum requirements* that are to be met by all clubs for Stadiums.

    Fines imposed for those who do not update/upgrade.

    * diffrent requirements for the different tiers.

  2. #27
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    Drop the name Super League .

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    Can I suggest that you sent a copy to the All Parliamentary Group for RL?
    https://publications.parliament.uk/p...gby-league.htm

    ...Although they do seem to be part funded by the RFL!
    Yep, good idea

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Ged View Post
    Drop the name Super League .
    This

  5. #30
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    Explanation needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Ged View Post
    Explanation needed.
    Apologies, i'm using the image to point to the importance of getting rid of "super league".

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    So far, brilliant. I reckon we let the thread roll along over the weekend for as many people as possible to contribute then I/we can try to collate some of the thoughts into a structured list, then we can go from there with how to do this properly and who it goes to.

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    Firstly - I concur with Gray and have long advocated such an initiative. Well done for having the gumption to drive it forward.

    My view is any letter should be sharp, concise and suitably high level to cover the key failings in the game and more importantly, the type of response and leadership that we'd like to see. It needs to be accompanied by the type of publicity to ensure it is the 'matter that won't go away.'

    There is the other option of going down a Martin Luther esque '95 thesis' but to me too much detail risks diluting the message. Ruminating over what constitutes the best play off mechanism should be subjugate to a more general point that the League structure should be stable, meritocratic and underline confidence in our sport. The more detail, the more risk of disagreement amongst those it claims to represent because we all have slightly different ideas on the type of things we want to see.

    It's easy to think of examples of the problems in RL because there are so many and for this reason I think it may be worthwhile to give everyone the chance to prioritise their top 3 or maybe 4 issues and then maybe consolidate these under a broad theme. So, Using Webbo's and Ged's points:

    " - Get rid of the name Super League.
    - Our sponsor 'suit' is predominantly low-value, and lacks blue chip involvement
    - Marketing of the sport is amateurish and gimmicky...
    "

    ...to me comes under a heading of commercial presentation /profile with a few quantifying sentences to outline that the fans are "concerned the marketing of the sport lacks credibility; we would like to see (and be consulted) in a plan to present a more appropriate presentation of our sport to commercial and media partners. The naming of our sport as 'Super League' is vague, outdated and has surrendered the core identity of the sport. It continues a trend of Rugby League heritage being eroded (i.e Lions) or stolen by other sports with a resultant loss of commercial opportunity."

    (FWIW I'd add that the current strategy of the sport to flog any commercial 'space' without due consideration of their own brand identity undermines any effort to attract blue-chip partners. A bit of dosh in return for a tinpot company getting its name on a shirt sleeve may seem attractive short term but its highly unlikely to attract the higher investment the sport needs to drive improvement. Does say a well know mutual who would be a reasonable target to attract to our game really want to be in association with a pawn shop, cheesy bingo, vaping companies, skip hire etc?)

    I'd offer the powers-that-be a chance to respond to the letter; to be tasked with a response to it. Its constructive and in doing so it would likely get a more positive reaction as opposed to being kicked into the long grass if it were an overly long prose on the game's failings. Ultimately it's up to those who run the game to find solutions not the everyday fan who is removed from the day to day administration of the game not least because we don't have access to the time, information, resources and contacts to usher in the changes we all want.

    Finally, aggregating all these responses into a letter would need to be well written because all of the problems are'nt mutually exclusive; its a challenge to say the least.
    Last edited by eddiewaringsflatcap; 5th February 2021 at 19:01.

  9. #34
    Learning All The Songs KentishBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    So far, brilliant. I reckon we let the thread roll along over the weekend for as many people as possible to contribute then I/we can try to collate some of the thoughts into a structured list, then we can go from there with how to do this properly and who it goes to.
    You might also give some thought to funding of this (sorry, but I'm assuming that you'll be sending these letters out!).
    Cost of postage and printing can add up, particularly if you're thinking about some sort of 'open' letter for the papers to publish.
    I'm not sure what to suggest here, but I'd happy contribute a few £ in to some sort of 'expenses' pot.

  10. #35
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    I include Saints and Eamon McManus in this but club chairmen run the game and due to that, the game is run with the short-term, self interests of the club and I can’t help but feel that some of the decisions made for the game aren’t with the wider games best interests in mind.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    Yes, I think the process of getting from here to a one or two sided sharp letter that dozens of us will be happy to put our name to will take weeks, which is why I've proposed it now whilst we don't have games distracting us on here, and so any final effort can be sent before the start of the season when attention on the game is higher than the normal 'who cares' in the media. It's a challenge, no doubt, but worth a try.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    You might also give some thought to funding of this (sorry, but I'm assuming that you'll be sending these letters out!).
    Cost of postage and printing can add up, particularly if you're thinking about some sort of 'open' letter for the papers to publish.
    I'm not sure what to suggest here, but I'd happy contribute a few £ in to some sort of 'expenses' pot.
    Cheers. To be honest I hadn't given it any thought and at this stage I don't think it'd cost much to print and post half a dozen letters. The modern world allows us to supplement the paper copies with online versions which are free of cost, so right now I don't think money is an issue.

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    I don’t think that it is a good or workable idea to get rid of the salary cap. Clubs will bust a gut trying to compete with the likes of Saints, Wigan, etc and spend whatever money it takes to do it. It’s all well and good having an owner with deep pockets, but what happens when he gets fed up and walks away, leaving the existing squad on over inflated wages? Think back to Wigan and Central Park, etc

  14. #39
    Learning All The Songs KentishBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Cheers. To be honest I hadn't given it any thought and at this stage I don't think it'd cost much to print and post half a dozen letters. The modern world allows us to supplement the paper copies with online versions which are free of cost, so right now I don't think money is an issue.
    "Slaps head with palm!"
    Yes, of course. For some reason I just linked the 'signing' of letters to paper versions!
    The offer still stands BTW.

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    Many will disagree with this as it's not their problem but I'd like to see the Australia & the NRL do more to help the game over here. They have all the resources and we seem to have few

    They should arrange more international tours, the likes of Samoa, Tonga & Fiji should be over regularly. Australia and New Zealand should be over in alternate years. They should even consider playing one State of Origin game in London

    They need to share more, coaching methods & sports science, mentor programmes, encourage young players do a year here rather than using our game as a retirement option

    We're not the enemy now, other sports are. If they don't help grow the game here it will be gone in 20 years

    I often go to the NFL games in London and, accepting the gap in finances between the two sports, it makes the Challenge Cup final look like an absolute joke. The gulf between the two experiences is enormous, it doesn't even feel like you're at the same stadium

    The product on the pitch is good for the most part, sure there's too much wrestling at times but there are enough spectacular moments to make up for it

    The other issue, as others have quite rightly stated, is how we present the sport in this country. SKY presentation is from the time of the dinosaurs

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinkers89 View Post
    Development of Cumbrian RL.

    Stadium development - A structured plan over 5 years.

    A list of minimum requirements* that are to be met by all clubs for Stadiums.

    Fines imposed for those who do not update/upgrade.

    * diffrent requirements for the different tiers.
    Excellent shout about Cumbria. A real hotbed of the game, largely ignored

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samphire15 View Post
    I don’t think that it is a good or workable idea to get rid of the salary cap. Clubs will bust a gut trying to compete with the likes of Saints, Wigan, etc and spend whatever money it takes to do it. It’s all well and good having an owner with deep pockets, but what happens when he gets fed up and walks away, leaving the existing squad on over inflated wages? Think back to Wigan and Central Park, etc
    Well it needs to be raised significantly then

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Well it needs to be raised significantly then
    My thoughts are it should be raised a bit, but not too much. If someone is good enough for the NRL, they'll go. The NRL salary cap is about £5.5m, we're not going to get anywhere near that, the NRL are coming for our top players, who'll they'll be able to pay more anyway. As yet they've not come looking for project players.

    An increased cap may mean we can get a better crop of NRL player though

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    Is the salary cap still having a positive effect on the sport or is it just dragging the standard down to the lowest common denominator in the name of ‘competitiveness’? What if we scrapped the cap and let teams spend what they could afford to based on income/turnover or owner’s deep pockets?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Great idea this.

    The Sky coverage is a major issue. It's dated, clunky & enforced a northern stereotype on the sport..
    Quote Originally Posted by undertheradar View Post
    Changing the structure / format of the league every season makes the game look amateurish and as if they don’t know what works best for the sport.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    These are the 3 core issues for me. This thread could go 20 pages if we all started nit picking. The only thing I can think of adding is improving standards of refereeing, exactly how, I don't know but the issue of their pay should be raised as that no doubt reduces the potential talent pool, similar to the salary cap to be honest.

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    I’ve outlined how I think we take this forward but for me the SKY monopoly over RL needs to be met head on. Its no coincidence that its presentation is so desperate given the grasp it seems to hold over the sport. Comfy shoes and complacency.

    The projection of our game to unfamiliar audiences is cringeworthy and whats worse our SL clubs seem to think its ‘kool.’ In fact they probably think their supporters all play mecca bingo, enjoy a punt on ‘t’ dogs at Newcastle BAGS and enjoy a mild at the weekend given how poorly RL fans are treated by them. Seemingly tgey exist to be patted on the head now and then but not to be consulted on the key issues.

    The SKY presentation just helps cement the caricature of our fanbase and sport and I can tell you ftim experience its a running joke down here.

    Yet here’s the rub. The presentation is a manifestation of all the doses of shit who are involved in running the sport; why should SKY take it seriously if the game is run like a Labour club?

  21. #46
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    Evening Gray,

    After years of enjoying the ups and downs of this forum and keeping silent I'd like to chuck my two-penneth in on this.

    Eddiewaringsflatcap hit the nail on the head with a requirement for the letter to be succinct, concise (unlike this post) and addressable by the powers that be (such as they are).

    As I see it there are structural, managerial and leadership problems in rugby league from the top down. What we need to decide is what we can affect.

    I'd say RLIF at the moment are utterly pointless as internationals are rarely played. What they should be doing, in my opinion, is leading on rule changes for domestic competitions to bring them all inline. I think that's outside our remit for now.

    Onto SL/RFL (as a warning I'm not sure how to seperate this up as it's all interlinked so just go with it.). For me there is one main issue that all the others fall out of and that is the direction and management of the sport.

    Underneath this I'd like to know:

    Is the RFL and SL split and separate management necessary? What is the difference in costs and what are the benefits of the arrangement?

    I would like to see what the 3, 5 and 10 year plans are for our development. This includes SL through to the community game with what moneys are coming from where and who (specifucally by role) is responsible for what. Let's call it a roadmap as the press seem to live that at the minute.

    SL specific:

    What are the plans for the next X amount of years for P&R, expansion, league structure etc? On the back of that when are they getting rid of the temporary measure of loop fixtures? Why do the club owners have as much power as they have and why isn't the league run as it's own commercial venture with them having an input but needing to toe the party line? What is the plan for the leagues in short?

    How do they plan to expand and engage more with fans? Getting more TV viewers watching us on a weekend will mean more broadcast money how do they intend on engaging swing-sports entusiasts? In every town and city RL is played there will be sports fans who have still never watched it how do they (both clubs and the governance) plan to engage those people? For those already interested how do they make the disciplinary process and its outcomes more open? How are referees who make mistakes (which is human) developed to not make the same mistakes again? Who looks at the anti-rugby bending and breaking of the rules and what powers do they have to impose sanctions?

    I've seen who was involved on the recent panel for rule changes but who actually decides them and what is their expected outcome? Where are the assessments of the pros and cons for the changes and who it benefits (defence or attack), who does the risk balance case or do they just wing it year-on-year and hope for the best?

    What is the plan for the development of our junior players? Others can comment better than I but the format changes regularly and we lose people unnecessarily from the game because of it.

    I think that covers my main gripes. There's bound to be more though.

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

    Edited to correct some phone-related autocorrect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guns86 View Post
    snip.
    Welcome to Redvee. Your views are noted, thanks. Hope you'll become a regular in the weeks and months to come.

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    Wow its difficult to put a thought process behind this.
    There have been some excellent posts both here and in past threads about these topics.
    For me these are the main areas that the RFL need to address

    Management and governance of the game
    - sponsorship
    - Short term changes (rules, structure etc.) that would negate any long term planning
    - Lack of direction
    - Competing management structures with RFL/SL/Club owners for the local game
    - Lack of cohesion across RFL, NRL, RLIF for the wider game
    - Salary limitations clearly not working, what plans are in place to address this other than gimmicks
    - General entertainment value of the current game play is being limited by rules and tactics
    - Marketing of the game - seen as non existent in many cases and poor when attempted
    - TV coverage of the game has started to deteriorate to an all time low - volume does not cover the overall presentation flaws - why has the game, seemingly, no say in how the game is presented in the UK

    Unfortunately there are way too many specific examples for each of the points above and way too many other points that have been covered by other posters and are not in my list.

    Good luck with putting a succinct letter together

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    I would hope that it goes into the place that matters before some of the club owners get the chance to stop it and i apologise if that seems to be out of order .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    These are the 3 core issues for me. This thread could go 20 pages if we all started nit picking. The only thing I can think of adding is improving standards of refereeing, exactly how, I don't know but the issue of their pay should be raised as that no doubt reduces the potential talent pool, similar to the salary cap to be honest.
    I agree that these are the three main issues. For me it’s become a bit of a bore. I watch Saints when I can because they are my team since I was aged 4 so it’s a habit. I don’t watch other matches anymore though. We claim to be a great product but I’m not sure that’s true. We need a once and final league structure which we keep for a decade. Scrap loop fixtures by having a 14 team league with franchises and no relegation. Keep a grand final somehow top 5 playoff works for me. Increase the value of the challenge cup maybe by having the finalists guaranteed play off places. Maybe not that but something. Reward exciting long range attacks. Ensure consistency of refereeing and disciplinary process. Whatever tv funds we get spend on the top league. End our parasitic reliance on Sky.

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