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Thread: Issues in the game

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    Throw in the facilities at some grounds and is it any surprise that Sky have dropped there money, why pay millions when you are given a portacabin to present from.
    Sky would much rather show games from a busy looking and atmospheric place like Cas than a half empty soccer or flat pack ground. Empty grounds are not good for ratings or perceptions. Which is why we see a lot more games from the Jungle than from Huddersfield.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ghost of '99 View Post
    Sky would much rather show games from a busy looking and atmospheric place like Cas than a half empty soccer or flat pack ground. Empty grounds are not good for ratings or perceptions. Which is why we see a lot more games from the Jungle than from Huddersfield.
    I agree with you regarding huddersfield (and Salford) But you must admit that playing in dilapidated grounds does not portray the sport in a good light, nor does it help to attract new young fans.

    There are several clubs in super league that have added nothing in terms of player development, increasing to commercial profile of the game etc, and yet these clubs have received the same amount of money as clubs like Saints,Wigan, Leeds, Warrington, even HKR have developed their stadium and on field performances and they are one of the poorest clubs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    I agree with you regarding huddersfield (and Salford) But you must admit that playing in dilapidated grounds does not portray the sport in a good light, nor does it help to attract new young fans.

    There are several clubs in super league that have added nothing in terms of player development, increasing to commercial profile of the game etc, and yet these clubs have received the same amount of money as clubs like Saints,Wigan, Leeds, Warrington, even HKR have developed their stadium and on field performances and they are one of the poorest clubs.
    Framing the future only applied to Lancashire as has been suggested many times before on here. The RFL simply chose to ignore their own rules to suit the Yarkshire club's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    I agree with you regarding huddersfield (and Salford) But you must admit that playing in dilapidated grounds does not portray the sport in a good light, nor does it help to attract new young fans....
    , even HKR have developed their stadium and on field performances and they are one of the poorest clubs.
    I really don't think there are many potential fans out there who react this way. A few non RL fans I know would actually love to go to the Jungle as a really old school ground. As for new fans I don't see many clubs proving successful in that, new stadia or not.

    But specifically those couple of clubs mentioned have a council which has been utterly disinterested in helping them and no club, even Leeds and Hull KR who self-funded their improvements, have been able to make redevelopment or relocation work in that sort of environment. It makes for nice trolling but the world is a complicated place.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2112_Saint View Post
    Framing the future only applied to Lancashire as has been suggested many times before on here. The RFL simply chose to ignore their own rules to suit the Yarkshire club's.
    Stop being silly. This sort of inane partisanship is exactly why the wood gets lost for the trees when we're talking about genuinely important issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ghost of '99 View Post
    I really don't think there are many potential fans out there who react this way. A few non RL fans I know would actually love to go to the Jungle as a really old school ground. As for new fans I don't see many clubs proving successful in that, new stadia or not.

    But specifically those couple of clubs mentioned have a council which has been utterly disinterested in helping them and no club, even Leeds and Hull KR who self-funded their improvements, have been able to make redevelopment or relocation work in that sort of environment. It makes for nice trolling but the world is a complicated place.



    Stop being silly. This sort of inane partisanship is exactly why the wood gets lost for the trees when we're talking about genuinely important issues.
    Don't be silly ?
    Important issues ? You don't think that the expenditure involved in ground development hindered our recruitment ? You talk about inane partisanship, ask Mike Rush about the influence that Hetherington wielded over the RFL ? Our own council didn't exactly bust a gut to help us did they ?
    What are the important issues then ? Is the enjoyment of the sport not important ? Entertainment ? What ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ghost of '99 View Post
    Stop being silly. This sort of inane partisanship is exactly why the wood gets lost for the trees when we're talking about genuinely important issues.

    Saints, who at the time were averaging around 10k per game and already the most successful club in the SL era, were threatened with expulsion from SL if they didn't meet the stadia criteria. We spent about £20m building one, and our on-field investment suffered for several seasons. Every NW/nominally 'Lancashire' club in SL or with SL ambition has moved to a new ground since SL began.

    Clubs like Bratfud, Cas, Wakey were given extension after extension, until Bratfud went bust through financial mismanagement and the whole new ground requirement was quietly dropped.

    It's one hell of a coincidence.


    But, like you say, this is largely a sideshow to the fundamental problems the game has - IMO the principle one being that the game has become a poor entertainment spectacle due to rule tweaks (especially allowing the slowing of the PT and overly-organised defences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Saints, who at the time were averaging around 10k per game and already the most successful club in the SL era, were threatened with expulsion from SL if they didn't meet the stadia criteria. We spent about £20m building one, and our on-field investment suffered for several seasons. Every NW/nominally 'Lancashire' club in SL or with SL ambition has moved to a new ground since SL began.

    Clubs like Bratfud, Cas, Wakey were given extension after extension, until Bratfud went bust through financial mismanagement and the whole new ground requirement was quietly dropped.

    It's one hell of a coincidence.
    Stop being silly

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ghost of '99 View Post
    I really don't think there are many potential fans out there who react this way. A few non RL fans I know would actually love to go to the Jungle as a really old school ground. As for new fans I don't see many clubs proving successful in that, new stadia or not.

    But specifically those couple of clubs mentioned have a council which has been utterly disinterested in helping them and no club, even Leeds and Hull KR who self-funded their improvements, have been able to make redevelopment or relocation work in that sort of environment. It makes for nice trolling but the world is a complicated place.



    Stop being silly. This sort of inane partisanship is exactly why the wood gets lost for the trees when we're talking about genuinely important issues.
    Oh come on do you really think that a potential new fan to the game will prefer Weldon Road, or Bell Vue to Warrington, Saints Leeds, HKR yes an old football fan might like to nostalgia feel to it but in this will be very short lived.

    Also In this modern world the corporate dollar is much more important hence forward looking clubs realised that in order to grow their financial base they needed to tap into that, and offering a portacabin at the end of the ground with a corridor that wobbled (as per the old Knowsley Road) does not paint a high end profession image if you are entertaining clients.

    This isn’t partisanship, It is wanting to ensure there is a full time first rate future for this sport, unfortunately Cas and Wakefield, with their grounds and Salford and Huddersfield with their crowds drag this sport down and it is in their interests to continue this since if the money moves out of the sport then they will become more even financially. But the sport will die in this country.

    I want a sport played in modern facilities with decent 3/4 capacity and the clubs to develop their own players.

    As was said St.Helens council did not put a brass farthing into the Saints ground, McManus courted developers to put money into the ground as an enabling development, it was all driven by the club. The council just latched on for the votes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Saints, who at the time were averaging around 10k per game and already the most successful club in the SL era, were threatened with expulsion from SL if they didn't meet the stadia criteria. We spent about £20m building one, and our on-field investment suffered for several seasons. Every NW/nominally 'Lancashire' club in SL or with SL ambition has moved to a new ground since SL began.

    Clubs like Bratfud, Cas, Wakey were given extension after extension, until Bratfud went bust through financial mismanagement and the whole new ground requirement was quietly dropped.

    It's one hell of a coincidence.


    But, like you say, this is largely a sideshow to the fundamental problems the game has - IMO the principle one being that the game has become a poor entertainment spectacle due to rule tweaks (especially allowing the slowing of the PT and overly-organised defences.
    If you wern't a RL fan you wouldn't believe it.

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    Why have attendances stopped being published? Looking at the recent super league scores, even on the main SL site - there are no attendances reported? It used to be RU that was shy about posting crowd numbers (19k at Bristol / Saracens last night I saw btw)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    Exactly


    10 teams - initially set up from clubs meeting strict criteria on ground, player development, fan base and financial (no in five years etc the clubs have had over 20 years) Then if another club meets these criteria they are admitted (even without regelation). TV money increases the further up the league you finish.

    Salary cap - set at 4million and increases with RPI every season, total exemption for any player developed through the club.

    Top five play off
    I like your thinking.

    It seems unlikely that the RFL would use anything so sensible.

    It’s more likely for SKY to introduce “It’s a Knockout” to displace us from the listings.
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    We need to get away from the obsession of attracting new fans. For me we need to entice the old fans back from across the game. The state of grounds isn't a big factor in me not attending, in fact Cas away is one of my favourite away trips. There are too many issues in the game to mention, the RFL need to stop chopping and changing rules, sky need to sort out their presentation, the salary cap needs to increase so clubs can keep home grown talent but also attract bigger name NRL and for me attract some big RU stars. Imagine the publicity if Owen Farrell signed for Wigan or George Ford signed for saints. Both those lads are steeped in RL. I remember an interview with George Ford a few years ago, it was with that snob John Inverdale. He asked Ford who his rugby hero was growing up? Ford replied Paul Sculthorpe! Inverdale quickly moved on!!!

    There are thousands of dormant RL fans across the country including hotbeds like St Helens and Wigan. It is getting those fans back through the turnstiles that is what the RFL should be trying to do. If we carry on going the way we are RL could be part time within the next 5 years.

    Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by F4RSH View Post
    We need to get away from the obsession of attracting new fans. For me we need to entice the old fans back from across the game. The state of grounds isn't a big factor in me not attending, in fact Cas away is one of my favourite away trips. There are too many issues in the game to mention, the RFL need to stop chopping and changing rules, sky need to sort out their presentation, the salary cap needs to increase so clubs can keep home grown talent but also attract bigger name NRL and for me attract some big RU stars. Imagine the publicity if Owen Farrell signed for Wigan or George Ford signed for saints. Both those lads are steeped in RL. I remember an interview with George Ford a few years ago, it was with that snob John Inverdale. He asked Ford who his rugby hero was growing up? Ford replied Paul Sculthorpe! Inverdale quickly moved on!!!

    There are thousands of dormant RL fans across the country including hotbeds like St Helens and Wigan. It is getting those fans back through the turnstiles that is what the RFL should be trying to do. If we carry on going the way we are RL could be part time within the next 5 years.

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    Love the comment about Scully, I hadn’t heard that one before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F4RSH View Post
    We need to get away from the obsession of attracting new fans. For me we need to entice the old fans back from across the game. The state of grounds isn't a big factor in me not attending, in fact Cas away is one of my favourite away trips. There are too many issues in the game to mention, the RFL need to stop chopping and changing rules, sky need to sort out their presentation, the salary cap needs to increase so clubs can keep home grown talent but also attract bigger name NRL and for me attract some big RU stars. Imagine the publicity if Owen Farrell signed for Wigan or George Ford signed for saints. Both those lads are steeped in RL. I remember an interview with George Ford a few years ago, it was with that snob John Inverdale. He asked Ford who his rugby hero was growing up? Ford replied Paul Sculthorpe! Inverdale quickly moved on!!!

    There are thousands of dormant RL fans across the country including hotbeds like St Helens and Wigan. It is getting those fans back through the turnstiles that is what the RFL should be trying to do. If we carry on going the way we are RL could be part time within the next 5 years.

    Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk
    A business model where you don’t attempt to attract or entice new fans is exactly what we’ve got now. That’s working well. We do need to entice new fans. I think there’s a fair few who think “new fans” means fans in locations that either doesn’t have a Rugby League team or is a Newcastle or Coventry. Clubs, ours included, need to attract new fans from their own towns or cities. An average of 12-13k watching us (which we’ve not really had this year) given our success is not really good enough, we don’t need to be doing anything daft like attempting to appeal to the people of Liverpool as I’ve seen suggested on social media and websites over the years but we need to get the people of St Helens behind the club and attending regularly.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    Love the comment about Scully, I hadn’t heard that one before.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    A business model where you don’t attempt to attract or entice new fans is exactly what we’ve got now. That’s working well. We do need to entice new fans. I think there’s a fair few who think “new fans” means fans in locations that either doesn’t have a Rugby League team or is a Newcastle or Coventry. Clubs, ours included, need to attract new fans from their own towns or cities. An average of 12-13k watching us (which we’ve not really had this year) given our success is not really good enough, we don’t need to be doing anything daft like attempting to appeal to the people of Liverpool as I’ve seen suggested on social media and websites over the years but we need to get the people of St Helens behind the club and attending regularly.

    Agree, we need to attract new fans however expansion is a myth, a pipe dream.


    We should (as a sport) look at embracing and engaging our locals. The idea that a team in Canada or the US is going to grow the sport HERE is nonsense.

    Look at what happened when Holbrook joined and engaged with the “locals”

    I live in Oldham and feel part of the club, engaged with the team and THATS what we should be building on as a SPORT, not attempting to attract people hundreds or thousands of miles away who likely won’t come to the games anyway
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    I was at an academy game yesterday and a young lad just in front of me was talking to a parent of a player in the game. The parent asked him "Are you still at Warrington?" the young lad replied "yes, but I'm being released". When asked what he was going to do now, he said that he would not be going back to amatuer rugby. It seems to me young players seem to think that they have failed if they don't make it to the next level but IMO should go back to playing with their mates at their community clubs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    Agree, we need to attract new fans however expansion is a myth, a pipe dream.


    We should (as a sport) look at embracing and engaging our locals. The idea that a team in Canada or the US is going to grow the sport HERE is nonsense.

    Look at what happened when Holbrook joined and engaged with the “locals”

    I live in Oldham and feel part of the club, engaged with the team and THATS what we should be building on as a SPORT, not attempting to attract people hundreds or thousands of miles away who likely won’t come to the games anyway
    I always thought they should have gone the extra step and developed the game further in the Midlands. With Birmingham, Coventry, West Brom, Aston Villa, Wolves struggling to get into or exist in the top tier of football there surely would be a fanbase to look at and support a different sport.

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