Chapel House Motor Company Limited Advertising Banner
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 493

Thread: Issues in the game

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Macclesfield
    Age
    46
    Posts
    8,428
    Rep Power
    33

    Default Issues in the game

    We've had numerous 'State of the Game' threads on here, most of them really good and containing loads of great points. But they haven't gone anywhere, and most of the issues we've raised haven't gone away and in some senses they have worsened.

    Some have said it would be a good idea to write a proper letter, signed by loads of us, sent directly to the RFL, clubs, RL media, newspapers like the Mirror that cover the game, outlining the issues that we spend loads of time talking about on here. Let's make this official, let's write something and send it, in the post, signed by loads of us, and then put copies of it online, spread it around, and see if we can't get some attention.

    We are in the great position as fans of the back-to-back champions that we can't be accused of moaning about the sport because our team is being disadvantaged or because we're not winning stuff. We are the fanbase that can complain and not have it thrown back in our faces, so why not.

    I am happy to draft something based upon your ideas and contributions. I'm also happy to get out of the way and let someone else do it if they want.

    But I/we need to know that enough of us see problems big enough to justify it. So this is your chance to give me your ideas, subjects to raise, etc. It's also your chance to tell me/us that this is un-necessary. There's no point doing it if only 6 of us want to add our name to it.

    I'm getting the ball rolling, I'm happy to get this started, but it needs others to justify it being a worthwhile venture.

  2. #2
    In The South Stand
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    3,647
    Rep Power
    22

    Default

    A letter? It would be more like a book. Still, a good idea though.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

  3. #3
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Macclesfield
    Age
    46
    Posts
    8,428
    Rep Power
    33

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    A letter? It would be more like a book. Still, a good idea though.
    Yes, there is the danger that whoever sends it will have to pay excess postage costs if we stuck everything in there! I think we can summarise and keep it sharp and to the point. Anyone that has read my posts on here will know that this is why I'm asking for loads of help, because brief and to the point isn't my strong point!

  4. #4
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk The Wee Waa Womble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Harrogate
    Age
    33
    Posts
    7,965
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Is the salary cap still having a positive effect on the sport or is it just dragging the standard down to the lowest common denominator in the name of ‘competitiveness’? What if we scrapped the cap and let teams spend what they could afford to based on income/turnover or owner’s deep pockets?
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

  5. #5
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Macclesfield
    Age
    46
    Posts
    8,428
    Rep Power
    33

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    Is the salary cap still having a positive effect on the sport or is it just dragging the standard down to the lowest common denominator in the name of ‘competitiveness’? What if we scrapped the cap and let teams spend what they could afford to based on income/turnover or owner’s deep pockets?
    Noted, thanks

  6. #6
    Got A Season Ticket
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    362
    Rep Power
    9

    Default

    I don’t think that it is a good or workable idea to get rid of the salary cap. Clubs will bust a gut trying to compete with the likes of Saints, Wigan, etc and spend whatever money it takes to do it. It’s all well and good having an owner with deep pockets, but what happens when he gets fed up and walks away, leaving the existing squad on over inflated wages? Think back to Wigan and Central Park, etc

  7. #7
    In The South Stand retro74's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    St Helens, Lancashire
    Age
    49
    Posts
    4,887
    Rep Power
    24

    Default

    Many will disagree with this as it's not their problem but I'd like to see the Australia & the NRL do more to help the game over here. They have all the resources and we seem to have few

    They should arrange more international tours, the likes of Samoa, Tonga & Fiji should be over regularly. Australia and New Zealand should be over in alternate years. They should even consider playing one State of Origin game in London

    They need to share more, coaching methods & sports science, mentor programmes, encourage young players do a year here rather than using our game as a retirement option

    We're not the enemy now, other sports are. If they don't help grow the game here it will be gone in 20 years

    I often go to the NFL games in London and, accepting the gap in finances between the two sports, it makes the Challenge Cup final look like an absolute joke. The gulf between the two experiences is enormous, it doesn't even feel like you're at the same stadium

    The product on the pitch is good for the most part, sure there's too much wrestling at times but there are enough spectacular moments to make up for it

    The other issue, as others have quite rightly stated, is how we present the sport in this country. SKY presentation is from the time of the dinosaurs

  8. #8
    In The West Stand Ralph Fridge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Around
    Posts
    5,517
    Rep Power
    17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Samphire15 View Post
    I don’t think that it is a good or workable idea to get rid of the salary cap. Clubs will bust a gut trying to compete with the likes of Saints, Wigan, etc and spend whatever money it takes to do it. It’s all well and good having an owner with deep pockets, but what happens when he gets fed up and walks away, leaving the existing squad on over inflated wages? Think back to Wigan and Central Park, etc
    Well it needs to be raised significantly then

  9. #9
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk paulscnthorpe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    St Helens
    Age
    40
    Posts
    8,592
    Rep Power
    31

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Well it needs to be raised significantly then
    My thoughts are it should be raised a bit, but not too much. If someone is good enough for the NRL, they'll go. The NRL salary cap is about £5.5m, we're not going to get anywhere near that, the NRL are coming for our top players, who'll they'll be able to pay more anyway. As yet they've not come looking for project players.

    An increased cap may mean we can get a better crop of NRL player though

  10. #10
    Noooobie
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    35
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Samphire15 View Post
    I don’t think that it is a good or workable idea to get rid of the salary cap. Clubs will bust a gut trying to compete with the likes of Saints, Wigan, etc and spend whatever money it takes to do it. It’s all well and good having an owner with deep pockets, but what happens when he gets fed up and walks away, leaving the existing squad on over inflated wages? Think back to Wigan and Central Park, etc
    I'm with you on this. Also you don't want one 'super rich' owner buying success and spoiling the league competition. One thing we have at the moment are reasonably competitive games (although boring at times).

  11. #11
    In The West Stand Ralph Fridge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Around
    Posts
    5,517
    Rep Power
    17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    We've had numerous 'State of the Game' threads on here, most of them really good and containing loads of great points. But they haven't gone anywhere, and most of the issues we've raised haven't gone away and in some senses they have worsened.

    Some have said it would be a good idea to write a proper letter, signed by loads of us, sent directly to the RFL, clubs, RL media, newspapers like the Mirror that cover the game, outlining the issues that we spend loads of time talking about on here. Let's make this official, let's write something and send it, in the post, signed by loads of us, and then put copies of it online, spread it around, and see if we can't get some attention.

    We are in the great position as fans of the back-to-back champions that we can't be accused of moaning about the sport because our team is being disadvantaged or because we're not winning stuff. We are the fanbase that can complain and not have it thrown back in our faces, so why not.

    I am happy to draft something based upon your ideas and contributions. I'm also happy to get out of the way and let someone else do it if they want.

    But I/we need to know that enough of us see problems big enough to justify it. So this is your chance to give me your ideas, subjects to raise, etc. It's also your chance to tell me/us that this is un-necessary. There's no point doing it if only 6 of us want to add our name to it.

    I'm getting the ball rolling, I'm happy to get this started, but it needs others to justify it being a worthwhile venture.
    Great idea this.

    The Sky coverage is a major issue. It's dated, clunky & enforced a northern stereotype on the sport..

  12. #12
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk The Wee Waa Womble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Harrogate
    Age
    33
    Posts
    7,965
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Great idea this.

    The Sky coverage is a major issue. It's dated, clunky & enforced a northern stereotype on the sport..
    Yes. Directly affects the 2 major questions about the sport:
    1) How do we get more people watching?
    2) How do we get better players playing?
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

  13. #13
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    1,211
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    The marketing of the sport, we would need Sky to buy in as the host broadcaster for most of it though, how many adverts have you seen in the last couple of years about the sport, they are usually very short and not on often. After the Grand Final we could be pushing for more advertising time and using different media, not only Sky, another example being the marketing of the Lions tour in 2019, everything about it was wrong, it was poorly marketed and felt like an afterthought on the season, rather than something it should have been built towards.

  14. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Refugee from the fascist state of RLFans
    Posts
    5,853
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsepho View Post
    The marketing of the sport, we would need Sky to buy in as the host broadcaster for most of it though, how many adverts have you seen in the last couple of years about the sport, they are usually very short and not on often. After the Grand Final we could be pushing for more advertising time and using different media, not only Sky, another example being the marketing of the Lions tour in 2019, everything about it was wrong, it was poorly marketed and felt like an afterthought on the season, rather than something it should have been built towards.

    The problem as I see it with that is we could throw millions in marketing at it, and most casual viewers who tuned in would be thoroughly underwhelmed at the spectacle and likely not bother watching again.

    We need to make the game entertaining and worth watching. That doesn't mean a bunch of morons screeching about the game on screen being some sort of brilliant classic (like the last Grand Final, which was nervy, given the closeness of the game and what was at stake for fans of both sides, but was poor in terms of quality attacking, and simply boring for the neutral casual viewer)

    To me, the sport shot itself in the foot with a bazooka in 2007 when they moved away from the principle of enforcing a quick PTB and full 10m offside line.

    And I still earnestly believe the effectiveness of Cunningham & the emerging Roby at creating disarray in defences from DH, played a big part in the thinking behind the decision. Both were integral to our sweeping of the board in 2006, and I think the RFL/SL were terrified of us dominating again and again.

  15. #15
    In The South Stand Tabasco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Rivington Road, St Helens
    Posts
    2,903
    Rep Power
    22

    Default

    While I’m not against the idea of promulgating a list of issues that are “we” believe are required to be addressed, I think it is important at the outset to identify the desired outcome of such activity.

    Would it be attempting to improve things for current fans, including armchair viewers, or is the focus on attracting new followers and investors? Or a mix of both?

    The problem as I see it is that the nature of changes in game management favoured by existing fans will significantly differ from those currently uninterested or disinterested in rugby league and that some of the requisite palliatives may be mutually exclusive. The letter, therefore, needs to have a sharp focus and must not merely be a long, rambling whinge list covering every facet of the sport. If that is what it becomes, it will be easier for those defending the status quo to pick elements of the list to resist change.

  16. #16
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    1,211
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    The problem as I see it with that is we could throw millions in marketing at it, and most casual viewers who tuned in would be thoroughly underwhelmed at the spectacle and likely not bother watching again.

    We need to make the game entertaining and worth watching. That doesn't mean a bunch of morons screeching about the game on screen being some sort of brilliant classic (like the last Grand Final, which was nervy, given the closeness of the game and what was at stake for fans of both sides, but was poor in terms of quality attacking, and simply boring for the neutral casual viewer)

    To me, the sport shot itself in the foot with a bazooka in 2007 when they moved away from the principle of enforcing a quick PTB and full 10m offside line.

    And I still earnestly believe the effectiveness of Cunningham & the emerging Roby at creating disarray in defences from DH, played a big part in the thinking behind the decision. Both were integral to our sweeping of the board in 2006, and I think the RFL/SL were terrified of us dominating again and again.
    I think both issues feed in to one another, improving the product would make marketing the sport easier and marketing the sport better would force those in charge to make improvements to speed up the game, such as strictly policing the play the ball area.

    Either way, it only happens if those who run the game listen to those who want improvements in the game, there are too many involved at the minute who are happy with what they have and dont want to take a risk and do something to make the sport better, we need to get power away from the Yorkshire cabal that Hetherington has and in to those who want the sport to improve.

  17. #17
    Got A Season Ticket
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Canberra, Australia
    Posts
    164
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    Yes. Directly affects the 2 major questions about the sport:
    1) How do we get more people watching?
    2) How do we get better players playing?
    As i said in another post 12 a side, open the game up and reduce gang tackles.

  18. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Refugee from the fascist state of RLFans
    Posts
    5,853
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    The slow PTB will always be the entertainment-killer for me. Defences are so well-drilled these days anyway, so the last thing the sport needs is giving defences another boost. We know some teams (*cough* piescum *cough*) make the 'dark arts' of slowing the PTB central to their entire gameplan.

    It all makes for a borefest arm-wrestle.

    Some will suggest that the points/tries scored tally hasn't changed that much, but we need to consider the method of scoring.

    Look back to the first decade or so of SL, and see the proportion of tries scored from at least 20m out and 40m, compared to close-range barge-overs and tries from kicks. Similarly, even the close range tries will have almost certainly have had a break or two leading up to them.

    These days, it's all too often a grind-a-thon. Teams playing for territory, inching up the field in short distances (5-20m) per tackle. Wingers and centres used primarily to run the ball into organised defences early in tackle counts.

    Offsides are rarely enforced, and Warrington make persistent offside part of their gameplan - they'll rotate which player(s) will charge out of the line (just before the PT to close down the first receiver and nullify attacks.

    Warrington also deploy the cheat of 'strategically timed HIA's'. I've mentioned before how frequently one of their players goes down clutching their head when then opposition make a break and look to attack a disorganised defence, or when they're desperately defending their line.


    In all, I'm sick of cynical stretching/exploiting of the rules. All coaches will try to suss out ways to make the rules work to their team's advantage, but in the last 10-15 years, we've seen this concept stretched into what I would consider cheating. And the worst aspect is, this is all making the game far less attractive as an entertainment spectacle, turning off casual fans.

  19. #19
    Got A Season Ticket BigTuna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Haydock
    Posts
    487
    Rep Power
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    The slow PTB will always be the entertainment-killer for me. Defences are so well-drilled these days anyway, so the last thing the sport needs is giving defences another boost. We know some teams (*cough* piescum *cough*) make the 'dark arts' of slowing the PTB central to their entire gameplan.

    It all makes for a borefest arm-wrestle.

    Some will suggest that the points/tries scored tally hasn't changed that much, but we need to consider the method of scoring.

    Look back to the first decade or so of SL, and see the proportion of tries scored from at least 20m out and 40m, compared to close-range barge-overs and tries from kicks. Similarly, even the close range tries will have almost certainly have had a break or two leading up to them.

    These days, it's all too often a grind-a-thon. Teams playing for territory, inching up the field in short distances (5-20m) per tackle. Wingers and centres used primarily to run the ball into organised defences early in tackle counts.

    Offsides are rarely enforced, and Warrington make persistent offside part of their gameplan - they'll rotate which player(s) will charge out of the line (just before the PT to close down the first receiver and nullify attacks.

    Warrington also deploy the cheat of 'strategically timed HIA's'. I've mentioned before how frequently one of their players goes down clutching their head when then opposition make a break and look to attack a disorganised defence, or when they're desperately defending their line.


    In all, I'm sick of cynical stretching/exploiting of the rules. All coaches will try to suss out ways to make the rules work to their team's advantage, but in the last 10-15 years, we've seen this concept stretched into what I would consider cheating. And the worst aspect is, this is all making the game far less attractive as an entertainment spectacle, turning off casual fans.
    Correct. I remember watching every game that was on Sky over a weekend, Thursday to Sunday, no matter who was playing. Plus then watching any highlights during the week, watching Boots N All, etc and now the game as a whole is not worth watching/investing your time in unless it's your team that is playing.
    I ate a tuna sandwich on my first day!

  20. #20
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,527
    Rep Power
    20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    The slow PTB will always be the entertainment-killer for me. Defences are so well-drilled these days anyway, so the last thing the sport needs is giving defences another boost. We know some teams (*cough* piescum *cough*) make the 'dark arts' of slowing the PTB central to their entire gameplan.

    It all makes for a borefest arm-wrestle.

    Some will suggest that the points/tries scored tally hasn't changed that much, but we need to consider the method of scoring.

    Look back to the first decade or so of SL, and see the proportion of tries scored from at least 20m out and 40m, compared to close-range barge-overs and tries from kicks. Similarly, even the close range tries will have almost certainly have had a break or two leading up to them.

    These days, it's all too often a grind-a-thon. Teams playing for territory, inching up the field in short distances (5-20m) per tackle. Wingers and centres used primarily to run the ball into organised defences early in tackle counts.

    Offsides are rarely enforced, and Warrington make persistent offside part of their gameplan - they'll rotate which player(s) will charge out of the line (just before the PT to close down the first receiver and nullify attacks.

    Warrington also deploy the cheat of 'strategically timed HIA's'. I've mentioned before how frequently one of their players goes down clutching their head when then opposition make a break and look to attack a disorganised defence, or when they're desperately defending their line.


    In all, I'm sick of cynical stretching/exploiting of the rules. All coaches will try to suss out ways to make the rules work to their team's advantage, but in the last 10-15 years, we've seen this concept stretched into what I would consider cheating. And the worst aspect is, this is all making the game far less attractive as an entertainment spectacle, turning off casual fans.
    Years ago I was invited to focus group by the RFL, a group of saints fans picked at random, it was during the time Cunningham was in his pomp, and we were destroying teams with quick PTB. However in room of about 12 people well over half wanted to get rid of this since it was stopping the progress of ball players like Murphy etc, completely missing the face that Tommy Martyn was one is the last true ball playing halfbacks, and these quick PTB created space.

    Those people got heir way and we ended up with the farce of players tackling then looking at the ref for when they can release.

    I for one likes the quick PTB era, it made exciting watching, but there will be people who somehow won’t admit that this grind is boring.

    Getting the balance between attack and defence is crucial currently the rules favour defence too much.

  21. #21
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    1,211
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    I think we need transparency in the disciplinary process, because currently there is very little, if any. Players are committing the same offences but coming away with different gradings and punishments. It would also help if they included clips of the actual offence so that the fans know what has been cited, its a simple thing that engages fans and increases transparency, how many times do we get a disciplinary notice and wonder what it was for.

  22. #22
    In The South Stand
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    4,522
    Rep Power
    24

    Default

    Inconsistent reffing is a problem,one ref will let a game flow,the next week a ref will let a team slow things down. It's the same with penalties one ref will bin a player another won't even blow a penalty.

    Coupled with the disciplinary panel who are just as inconsistent it's becoming a real problem.

  23. #23
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    1,211
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brook View Post
    Inconsistent reffing is a problem,one ref will let a game flow,the next week a ref will let a team slow things down. It's the same with penalties one ref will bin a player another won't even blow a penalty.

    Coupled with the disciplinary panel who are just as inconsistent it's becoming a real problem.
    Problem with some of the refs is that they arent fit enough to keep up with play so have to slow it down, Hewer seems to be the one who slows it down the most, just so happens he looks like he could only move at speed if someone mentioned food was on offer, he probably tucked in to the free Papa Johns the most.

  24. #24
    In The South Stand
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    near leigh
    Posts
    3,057
    Rep Power
    18

    Default

    Drop the name Super League .

  25. #25
    Got A Season Ticket palmorr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Haydock
    Posts
    264
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brook View Post
    Inconsistent reffing is a problem,one ref will let a game flow,the next week a ref will let a team slow things down. It's the same with penalties one ref will bin a player another won't even blow a penalty.

    Coupled with the disciplinary panel who are just as inconsistent it's becoming a real problem.
    Dead right!

    The three main problems in the game haven’t changed in the last 10 years

    •••• poor refereeing
    Shameful disciplinary panel
    Shitty Yorkshire grounds

    And they are unlikely to change by 2030 either

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •