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Thread: 2021 fixtures

  1. #26
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk paulscnthorpe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    I admire their spirit of optimism, and I appreciate I haven't a reputation for being similar minded. However, I'm not really sure that this decision has been made with any reality in mind.

    There's been a lot of unhelpful negative press recently about this summer, but I really do think now that the scientists are preying on Boris' weak spot, which is that he had the experience of being in intensive care with Covid. Despite the vaccination programme, many members of SAGE have changed the initial mantra of 'saving the NHS' to one that is seemingly about bludgeoning into the ground a virus that can never be completely bludgeoned. They want to keep us under restrictions for years, and we now have a Government that is petrified of being accused of allowing unnecessary deaths. The Tories have often been accused of putting the economy before lives, but the real danger now is that they are going to go too far the other way.

    One scientist told us that large crowds will be a "thing of the past", and whilst I'm sure this is a gross over-exaggeration, I'm cast iron sure that this is going to be the case for the remainder of 2021 and deep into 2022.

    Magic Weekend in September is a pipe dream that will never happen. With the likelihood that many will still be unvaccinated and the danger that vaccines may not work as well against new variants, the migration of 60,000 people over a couple of days and hordes of people hunting for bars across the streets of Newcastle is a complete non-starter, even as far away as then.

    With regards to the Grand Final, I can envisage 20,000 tops, something like what those unfortunate enough to have witnessed it would have seen with the Superbowl.

    I've already resigned myself to the fact that no more than that number can be back at the Etihad before the 2022-23 season and I'm pretty certain now that 5,000 is the maximum we will see at the TW Stadium from the summer onwards.
    I know I've been overly optimistic about the vaccine and restrictions left, I agree about the change in government tact about the need for restrictions.

    Seemingly all of adults will be vaccinated by May, so if the government thinks they're under pressure at the moment to lift some restrictions, wait till there are a handful of deaths and cases like summer, where there was the odd day with no deaths (not reported deaths). They'll really struggle to justify restrictions, and quite rightly.

    If you want to look for positivity, a real world study shows that the cases in Israel have dropped like a stone, and now they're saying they've done all the over 60s, and the vaccine works.. this is despite some rather well attended funerals.. I would suggest that the world is watching

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    In The West Stand STIDDY's Avatar
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    I wonder if they will be using our stadium for the fixture rounds during April and May with the ground being designated a vaccination hub. Plenty of people due to their second dose during those months and the use of the south stand is quite substantial for the NHS to pack up and go to allow a couple of matches to take place.

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    Learning All The Songs roy litherland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parrsaint View Post
    The Challenge Cup final is due to be played at Wembley on Saturday 17th July this year.
    Gutted that's the date we are celebrating our 50th wedding anniversary , was last year but had to be cancelled , cost us a few Bob cancelling buffet , disco , Cake ect , looks like its going to happen again .
    roy litherland it's happened i told you it would

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Magic Weekend is now about 5 weeks before the Grand Final, which is overkill really.
    The World Cup opener is a month later at St James Park. I am not sure having two big games on at the same ground in the space of a month would be wise. A lot of people will make a choice between one or the other.

    That being said, the chance of a World Cup happening this year is low. Given that other events like the Olympics would clash anyway, maybe putting this back a year would be the wise move.

    Another negative thing about Magic being late is that my interest in other teams is low, a lot of squads are knackered late in the year. A lot of teams have given up or have proven they are not going to win anything. It would work as a season opener, however we would need an indoor venue in the North to make it work.
    I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Cleal View Post
    The World Cup opener is a month later at St James Park. I am not sure having two big games on at the same ground in the space of a month would be wise. A lot of people will make a choice between one or the other.

    That being said, the chance of a World Cup happening this year is low. Given that other events like the Olympics would clash anyway, maybe putting this back a year would be the wise move.

    Another negative thing about Magic being late is that my interest in other teams is low, a lot of squads are knackered late in the year. A lot of teams have given up or have proven they are not going to win anything. It would work as a season opener, however we would need an indoor venue in the North to make it work.
    All good points, but we are assuming all these things happen of course. But if we are up and running and allowed to go to these things you are right that having MW and a World Cup opener in Newcastle within two months of each other may not work out too well in terms of attendance.

    You make a great point about some teams having nothing to play for. I had been looking at it the other way, noting that some games would have play-off implications and that this might not suit the laid back beered up MW vibe, but with some games actually being end of season rubbers there is a strong case to be made that some clubs fans won't bother, especially if they fancy a trip to the GF or some World Cup games closer to home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulscnthorpe View Post
    I know I've been overly optimistic about the vaccine and restrictions left, I agree about the change in government tact about the need for restrictions.

    Seemingly all of adults will be vaccinated by May, so if the government thinks they're under pressure at the moment to lift some restrictions, wait till there are a handful of deaths and cases like summer, where there was the odd day with no deaths (not reported deaths). They'll really struggle to justify restrictions, and quite rightly.

    If you want to look for positivity, a real world study shows that the cases in Israel have dropped like a stone, and now they're saying they've done all the over 60s, and the vaccine works.. this is despite some rather well attended funerals.. I would suggest that the world is watching
    Not sure where you have got May from? It will be autumn before all adults are done at the earliest.

    I also agree with others that the "goalposts have been moved" Initially it was about Hospital numbers and not overwhelming the NHS, now it seems the scientists want practically zero cases. The fact that we may not even be able to go on holiday in England this summer is unthinkable when we are now nearly a year after the first lockdown. However cases are plummeting now and hospital admissions decreasing. Today the R rate is now below 1 for the first time since last July.

    The one thing about Boris is that he does like a U turn and to be fair to him, I actually think he is more of a risk taker than listening to the scientists at all times. After all they advised against the "eat out to help out" last summer and he went ahead with it anyway. If cases continue to fall as they are then he will be under unbelievable pressure to start easing restrictions. Already some of his own party MP's are revolting, citing the restrictions as unnecessary.

    As soon as the better weather comes in March/April and people start to go outside more then that pressure will intensify. The NHS pressure is always less in the warmer months anyway so there will be much more room in the Hospitals.

    I guarantee one thing, if we are still in relative lockdown in summer, there will be riots, make no mistake about it. People will just not comply and will do their own thing and there is nowhere near enough Police to enforce it.

    We need to start to learn to live with it, it is going to be around much like flu so keep the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated as much as they need to and let others take their own risk.

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    In The South Stand Angry Dave's Avatar
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    MW should have been the first thing to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    Not sure where you have got May from? It will be autumn before all adults are done at the earliest.

    I also agree with others that the "goalposts have been moved" Initially it was about Hospital numbers and not overwhelming the NHS, now it seems the scientists want practically zero cases. The fact that we may not even be able to go on holiday in England this summer is unthinkable when we are now nearly a year after the first lockdown. However cases are plummeting now and hospital admissions decreasing. Today the R rate is now below 1 for the first time since last July.

    The one thing about Boris is that he does like a U turn and to be fair to him, I actually think he is more of a risk taker than listening to the scientists at all times. After all they advised against the "eat out to help out" last summer and he went ahead with it anyway. If cases continue to fall as they are then he will be under unbelievable pressure to start easing restrictions. Already some of his own party MP's are revolting, citing the restrictions as unnecessary.

    As soon as the better weather comes in March/April and people start to go outside more then that pressure will intensify. The NHS pressure is always less in the warmer months anyway so there will be much more room in the Hospitals.

    I guarantee one thing, if we are still in relative lockdown in summer, there will be riots, make no mistake about it. People will just not comply and will do their own thing and there is nowhere near enough Police to enforce it.

    We need to start to learn to live with it, it is going to be around much like flu so keep the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated as much as they need to and let others take their own risk.
    The thing is last year the government made promises that it turned out were unrealistic and they had to u-turn, too late and things got worse.

    It now seams that they are taking a more measured approach of not promising anything, or allowing pessimistic scenarios to be the narrative. This way if the science allows gradual lifting of lockdown in say May, it comes as a bonus. Whereas a promise of lockdown lifted in May and things don’t go as planed, then people get frustrated.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    I admire their spirit of optimism, and I appreciate I haven't a reputation for being similar minded. However, I'm not really sure that this decision has been made with any reality in mind.

    There's been a lot of unhelpful negative press recently about this summer, but I really do think now that the scientists are preying on Boris' weak spot, which is that he had the experience of being in intensive care with Covid. Despite the vaccination programme, many members of SAGE have changed the initial mantra of 'saving the NHS' to one that is seemingly about bludgeoning into the ground a virus that can never be completely bludgeoned. They want to keep us under restrictions for years, and we now have a Government that is petrified of being accused of allowing unnecessary deaths. The Tories have often been accused of putting the economy before lives, but the real danger now is that they are going to go too far the other way.

    One scientist told us that large crowds will be a "thing of the past", and whilst I'm sure this is a gross over-exaggeration, I'm cast iron sure that this is going to be the case for the remainder of 2021 and deep into 2022.

    Magic Weekend in September is a pipe dream that will never happen. With the likelihood that many will still be unvaccinated and the danger that vaccines may not work as well against new variants, the migration of 60,000 people over a couple of days and hordes of people hunting for bars across the streets of Newcastle is a complete non-starter, even as far away as then.

    With regards to the Grand Final, I can envisage 20,000 tops, something like what those unfortunate enough to have witnessed it would have seen with the Superbowl.

    I've already resigned myself to the fact that no more than that number can be back at the Etihad before the 2022-23 season and I'm pretty certain now that 5,000 is the maximum we will see at the TW Stadium from the summer onwards.

    By the end of June, over 50% of adults will have been vaccinated, including all the vulnerable groups (and probably all over-40s). There won't be the number of hosts available for the vaccine to be thst prevalent.

    We cannot eradicate Covid; we have to learn to live with some level of risk - and by 'live' I mean back to the 'old normal'. Thousands die each year with flu, and I think we need to accept that we'll have a similar threat from Covid, and potentially have to have annual jabs (one positive is that hopefully the anti-vaxxer cretins will remove themselves from the gene pool as a result)

    The one advantage )only f****ing advantage!!) I thought we'd get from a Tory government would be less of a nannying approach to the end of this. But it seems like they're giving us the worst of all worlds - a chaotic, incompetent and overly lax approach at the start (resulting in one of the highest death rates in the world), but an overly cautious and delayed easing of restrictions.
    I f*cking hate wi*an. And rugby yawnion. And Tories. And Brexit f*ckwits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    The thing is last year the government made promises that it turned out were unrealistic and they had to u-turn, too late and things got worse.

    It now seams that they are taking a more measured approach of not promising anything, or allowing pessimistic scenarios to be the narrative. This way if the science allows gradual lifting of lockdown in say May, it comes as a bonus. Whereas a promise of lockdown lifted in May and things dont go as planed, then people get frustrated.
    The government are floating the idea tonight of targeting major events from June onwards as ticketed events and applicants being sent lateral testing kits with tickets and then temperature checks at stadiums, sounds a bit far fetched to me, but at least its showing willingness as opposed to some scientists trying to keep the lockdown all year. At the current rates all priority adults (32 million) will be vaccinated(first jab at least) by 30th March Still not decided about buying a Season Ticket but is there a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel, we all deserve it, particularly those who have tried to keep to the rules as best as possible. What's everyone's thoughts about a vaccination certificate like a plastic card although with the take up of people being vaccinated it may be unnecessary

  11. #36
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk The Yellow Giraffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    Pre-season friendly v Leigh to be confirmed shortly too. Will be Makinson's testimonial game.
    Now confirmed. Saturday 13th 6pm.
    NEVER WRITE OFF THE SAINTS

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    I see 2021 like this - we won’t be going abroad , we won’t be going to live sporting events as we know them , we won’t be going to any gigs . We may have to have some form of verification that we are SARS free to enter hospitality . Social distancing will remain ,

    The main focus for the country is managing the disease while hoping it mutates to a less potent potential which can then be managed. The issues we face we do not yet know about hence why this issue will go on longer than people are thinking . Full vaccination is autumn . That’s the A-B route I’n dealing with our current situation however A to B might not be a direct line . I’m not planning anything in terms of holidays or expecting or hoping for anything other than what’s in my control . Just allow the government and scientists to do what they need to do to get this under control and i believe that will be beyond 2021. I’m starting to plan a few projects at home , and trying to enjoy family today me and rugby league on the box
    Last edited by Dark Side Of The Moon; 16th February 2021 at 17:43.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woolyback View Post
    The government are floating the idea tonight of targeting major events from June onwards as ticketed events and applicants being sent lateral testing kits with tickets and then temperature checks at stadiums, sounds a bit far fetched to me, but at least its showing willingness as opposed to some scientists trying to keep the lockdown all year. At the current rates all priority adults (32 million) will be vaccinated(first jab at least) by 30th March Still not decided about buying a Season Ticket but is there a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel, we all deserve it, particularly those who have tried to keep to the rules as best as possible. What's everyone's thoughts about a vaccination certificate like a plastic card although with the take up of people being vaccinated it may be unnecessary
    Thats a great idea about vaccination certificate

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    Learning All The Songs KentishBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woolyback View Post
    ...What's everyone's thoughts about a vaccination certificate like a plastic card...
    If you're talking about these being shown this season, then 'no thanks'. Half the fans would still be waiting for the call to be vaccinated.
    I can see it being used in future in a similar way to a yellow fever certificate, if travelling to parts of the world where the virus was still a problem. Not sure how it would work with mutations though (unlike yellow fever).
    If you're talking more generally, then I don't think it will happen, and I could see it as being used as a back door to some sort of national ID card scheme. We already know what a fuss that caused when it was being punted around!

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk paulscnthorpe's Avatar
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    There's a massive danger of creating a two tier society if you introduce vaccine passports, so I don't think they will. Where do you stop, could you say those who have had it in the last few months are also to go about their daily lives too? However I can see countries asking for one for travel.

    You can't stop businesses from putting their own rules in place though, which again will cause problems. I'd say on the whole most under 50s are willing to wait their turn, if you say restrictions are lifted, it'll turn nasty.

    I think the biggest pressure now is for the government to be seen to be moving along to get the economy going again. people in hospital are down by nearly half on what they were, albeit still high. Deaths are coming down 25% week on week, how much is the vaccine and how much is the lockdown remains to be seen.

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    As far as I'm aware non of the vaccines provide full immunity, so they don't stop you getting it, and the last article I saw said that one of the vaccines doesn't stop you passing it on but does reduce transmission by 66% or similar. So a vaccine passport only says that you're less likely to end up in hospital and pass it on, it doesn't prove you're free of it. (Happy to be corrected here as I'm not downplaying it or wanting to peddle pseudo-science as it's an incredible thing they've done and I'll be getting jabbed up as soon as I'm offered).

    I think vaccination passports are on a hiding to nothing with this virus as it mutates too often. Half the country won't even be offered the vaccine until most of the season is done and dusted so enforcing an arbitrary rule that stops most of the working age population from enjoying their downtime isn't really feasible.

    The lateral flow test and temperature checks seems like a reasonable idea. Not too onerous on anyone and should ensure people's safety probably to a higher degree than a vaccine passport (as long as people obey the rules). A guarantee that refunds will be given on match tickets in the event of a positive test would probably help folk make the right decision when the time comes too.

    The RLWC had a survey out recently asking for people's opinions around this. I can't find the link to it anymore otherwise I'd share it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woolyback View Post
    The government are floating the idea tonight of targeting major events from June onwards as ticketed events and applicants being sent lateral testing kits with tickets and then temperature checks at stadiums, sounds a bit far fetched to me, but at least its showing willingness as opposed to some scientists trying to keep the lockdown all year. At the current rates all priority adults (32 million) will be vaccinated(first jab at least) by 30th March Still not decided about buying a Season Ticket but is there a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel, we all deserve it, particularly those who have tried to keep to the rules as best as possible. What's everyone's thoughts about a vaccination certificate like a plastic commuity card although with the take up of people being vaccinated it may be unnecessary
    If the virus is still around for quite a few years in its life threatening state I can see us going into a "1984" type style of scociety thrust upon us. The track and trace in its current form is futile, I reckon you would need some sort of bar coded plastic identity card to monitor your movements in shops, pubs, stadiums etc.

    For watching our game your season ticket or community identity card would need to show the 2 doses of vaccine, at the turnstiles face recognition and temperature checks can be monitored to get that green light for entry.

    Some people will obviously object to this type of control but the other side of the coin is lockdowns every few months with an ever increasing back log of NHS treatments, Education Retardation and Employment Fragmentation.
    Last edited by STIDDY; 17th February 2021 at 09:54.

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    Or you get to a situation of herd mentality? You live by risk averse science and you wont live a normal life again. You mitigate all you can, which is happening, and then you crack on. Otherwise we will end up living on rice and beans. We have had the Kent Strain, Brazilian Strain, Sth African Strain. My mate Charlie has had back strain but his injections keep him mobile and a twinkle in his eye.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyprus View Post
    Or you get to a situation of herd mentality? You live by risk averse science and you wont live a normal life again. You mitigate all you can, which is happening, and then you crack on. Otherwise we will end up living on rice and beans. We have had the Kent Strain, Brazilian Strain, Sth African Strain. My mate Charlie has had back strain but his injections keep him mobile and a twinkle in his eye.
    Exactly. As I alluded to yesterday, how far do you go to save a few vulnerable people while costing most of the population quality of life? In the short term most have took it on the chin but we're a year in now. In fairness they seem to be doing a pretty good job with the vaccine although it appears to be the only thing they have got right but I really don't agree with this vaccine passport, even though I had 4 jabs yesterday, I don't like the idea of some quickly rolled out vaccine being forced on me to do my job/go on holiday/live normally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    If the virus is still around for quite a few years in its life threatening state I can see us going into a "1984" type style of scociety thrust upon us. The track and trace in its current form is futile, I reckon you would need some sort of bar coded plastic identity card to monitor your movements in shops, pubs, stadiums etc.

    For watching our game your season ticket or community identity card would need to show the 2 doses of vaccine, at the turnstiles face recognition and temperature checks can be monitored to get that green light for entry.

    Some people will obviously object to this type of control but the other side of the coin is lockdowns every few months with an ever increasing back log of NHS treatments, Education Retardation and Employment Fragmentation.
    I am currently in Asia, and it works very similar to what you say. Everyone has an app on their phone and everyone has to scan in with that app and have their temperature taken before being allowed to enter any restaurant, shop, etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyprus View Post
    Or you get to a situation of herd mentality? You live by risk averse science and you wont live a normal life again. You mitigate all you can, which is happening, and then you crack on. Otherwise we will end up living on rice and beans. We have had the Kent Strain, Brazilian Strain, Sth African Strain. My mate Charlie has had back strain but his injections keep him mobile and a twinkle in his eye.
    A bit off topic but all the strains you mention remind me of playing rugby in Belgium. The club employed a female physio and all of a sudden everyone got groin strains.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    A bit off topic but all the strains you mention remind me of playing rugby in Belgium. The club employed a female physio and all of a sudden everyone got groin strains.
    Chelsea had a similar problem.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    Exactly. As I alluded to yesterday, how far do you go to save a few vulnerable people while costing most of the population quality of life? In the short term most have took it on the chin but we're a year in now. In fairness they seem to be doing a pretty good job with the vaccine although it appears to be the only thing they have got right but I really don't agree with this vaccine passport, even though I had 4 jabs yesterday, I don't like the idea of some quickly rolled out vaccine being forced on me to do my job/go on holiday/live normally.
    With talk of only a limited return to some sort of opening hospitality, and that in the distant future , I can see pockets of civil disorder breaking out like the Netherlands, people's mental health must be beginning to feature now with the trade off between infection and death and a return to some sort of normality. Any comparison with some sort of wartime spirit and solidarity is now going out of the window, the blitz only lasted a couple of months, the pubs stayed open, cinemas and theatres only closed for a couple of weeks, I know it was a completely different battle and we are against an invisible enemy this time but there is an obvious siege mentality which is beginning to fracture

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    In the short term most have took it on the chin but we're a year in now.
    I think that's the crux of the matter, even the anti lockdown protests have died a death because as there's an obvious out now.

    I just don't see how they'll be able to justify anything when deaths drop to last summer levels

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woolyback View Post
    With talk of only a limited return to some sort of opening hospitality, and that in the distant future , I can see pockets of civil disorder breaking out like the Netherlands, people's mental health must be beginning to feature now with the trade off between infection and death and a return to some sort of normality. Any comparison with some sort of wartime spirit and solidarity is now going out of the window, the blitz only lasted a couple of months, the pubs stayed open, cinemas and theatres only closed for a couple of weeks, I know it was a completely different battle and we are against an invisible enemy this time but there is an obvious siege mentality which is beginning to fracture
    I have quite a few friends in Holland, both Dutch and Expats and from what I can gather it's the Expats who are more accepting of the situation than the locals which surprised me. I know there's a lot of ill feeling towards Mark Rutte, their PM who's seen as a bit of BJ figure even though he would be seen a more a Labour politician here. The Dutch can be a strange people as they're usually seen as being liberal but they're incredibly stubborn and hard faced when it doesn't suit them.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulscnthorpe View Post
    I think that's the crux of the matter, even the anti lockdown protests have died a death because as there's an obvious out now.

    I just don't see how they'll be able to justify anything when deaths drop to last summer levels
    I think IF they try and keep things locked down then they will say it's because they don't want a repeat of post Christmas. I had an interesting conversation yesterday the doc' doing my medical yesterday who explained a few things to me in Layman's terms but on the other hand she agreed that their can't continue to be this trade off. Some decent news from Europe, a pal of mine is working in Paris at the moment and he was able to have a couple of dust busters after work yesterday stood outside a bar.

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