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Thread: Where do we go from here?

  1. #1
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    Default Where do we go from here?

    Firstly big congratulations to the magnificent Saints players for their performance in the Grand Final – courageous, committed, resilient, determined. I feel sure that the win is a big boost for the players, coaching staff, Club and the town.
    Now that the euphoria has dimmed a bit, letÂ’s consider the future of Super League. Here are some of the problems as I see them.
    The current style of play in SL will never attract the casual viewer. As it stands, it is simply boring to anyone not steeped in the game and to some who are steeped in the game. Spectator numbers can only go one way – down. To survive as an attractive spectator sport, we need to see radical changes – free flowing movement of players and ball, much more flair, a different attitude to risk-taking with ball in hand, a complete resetting of the concept of 5 drives and a kick, more off-loading to take advantage of space created. I could go on but many excellent recent posts have said similar things.
    Other SL problems:
    Management of the game just not good enough to move it forward in any significant way.
    Fitness of players nowhere near good enough for a professional sport. I am aware that there are some teams to whom this would not apply, but not many.
    Refereeing standards – don’t even want to go there except to say that recent performances (Catalan against Leeds and Wigan against Saints) where head shots and other dangerous fouls went unpunished, will not encourage parents to support their children playing the game.
    Shocking, inept Sky presentation which needs an almost complete clear out.
    Lack of finance coming into the game, unconnected with the Covid situation. Who would want to invest in the current product?
    Attendances – on a downward slope. It will be interesting (and worrying) to see how this plays out when crowds are allowed back in.

    I am aware all this is negative but I believe, as it stands, we are looking at a dying sport. It will be slow and painful but it will happen unless radical changes are made.
    The question I would ask of committed rugby league fans is:
    WHERE THE HECK DO WE START IN MOVING THE GAME FORWARD?

  2. #2
    In The West Stand saintgeorge's Avatar
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    It’s down to the lake I fear.

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    Most teams play with flat attacks so that means a quick defensive line will smother any creative play most of the time. That gets worse when the refs are inconsistent and allow a slow PTB and that 8 metres instead of the 10.

    The game these days are based on % completions and keeping momentum as long as possible, we've had a couple of teams who have experimented with off load games but that didn't last long and wasn't winning productive.

    Next season it looks as though we will be seeing quite a few younger players across Superleague, if that continues maybe we can lower the overseas quota sooner than later.

    Unfortunately the image profile of our sport is not very promising as regards to sponsors and media exposure, what we need is a big build up to the World Cup with no expense spared and obviously an England team in the Final.

    We are also in danger of being like football in the fake injury department, that needs addressing and perhaps eradicating at the source of head tackles with automatic yellow cards reducing ambiguity and inconsistency.

    We will most likely still be Covid effected with attendances next year and we can also add the financial restraints of fans. Maybe that will be more of a normality in the 2022 season.

    For Saints its possible Dodd, Welsby and Simm will become prominent at the back end of next season, if that happens then we build a team around them and the future is bright and we need shades.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Forber View Post
    ...I am aware all this is negative but I believe, as it stands, we are looking at a dying sport. It will be slow and painful but it will happen unless radical changes are made...
    I think you're being a little too pessimistic but I agree that some things need to change. I don't agree with you about fitness though. I don't think there's much room for improvement there.

    The World Cup is an interesting one. Timing, due to Covid, could be awful, but then again, may just be perfect if things start returning to 'normal' as it's due to start.

  5. #5
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    I've said it before

    Someone like Eddie Hearn to take over?

    You're right. The game hasnt moved forward pretty much since I can remember.
    I fear for the sport, and best players simply going to NRL or a different sport.

    That attitude that people have of being proud of their players going to the NRL is pathetic.
    We should not be proud players are leaving for better pay and a better comp.
    This comp should be nrl standard by now.

    Money is a big issue.
    Does the government back RL like they do other sports?
    I
    Is there anything to attract big investors (I would lnt invest in RL)

  6. #6
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    Toronto has also highlighted there seems to be no clear idea for expansion.

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    Too many people have too much to loose in U.K. Rugby League for exponential change to occur, so, it won’t happen. Self-interest from all parties will rein supreme and we’ll continue to fall further and further behind the NRL and Internationally, with the growth of Tonga, Samoa, PNG and Fiji through different reasons, England will fall further behind and within five years, will be the fourth best side, if they’re not already.

    There’s plenty of change that I’d like to see domestically, though I just can’t see it.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    An England World Cup win is the biggest thing I can think of to boost the sport. We are looking in the wrong places IMO if we think the sport will increase its status with the club game. Club rugby league is a niche sport, much like club rugby union and county cricket. How many of the five millions who watch England in the Six Nations properly follow a club side? Maybe a few hundred thousand? I'd venture that 90% of the people who watch the England v France game at the weekend won't know who is top of the league. How many people who watch Test match cricket really follow the county game, or would even know who won the last county championship? Probably a similar number. Ask someone who follows RL who won the league and nearly all would know, but ask them the score of the Lions tests last year and they may struggle.

    Cricket and rugby union are big sports because they can both dominate headlines when England play. The England cricket and RU sides are big deals but below that they are niche interests, but niche interests that get sponsorships and column inches because they are connected to this big thing that people follow. RL on the other hand is primarily a tribal club sport with some internationals attached, sometimes as an after thought. The only way we get sponsors and column inches for our sport is off the back of us having a successful 'test' side, that we take seriously, that plays alot and wins things.

    In the 80s and 90s the Ashes series were big deals, we got big crowds and they were taken seriously as big events on the BBC, and we got attention. Whilst in Australia the game is big enough at club and state level to not need the international side as much, we needed it, but we let it all drift. We dropped Ashes series, we started playing Tri Nations series that nobody outside the game cared about, and when we did have decent World Cups we did nothing to back it up by getting our test side back on the park. Like it or not, club RL in the North of England is only really going to be important to RL fans in the North of England, and that's not a bad thing, we should be proud that we have a sport that has Northern history and culture attached to it. But it isn't going to interest people in Gloucester or Bath or Leicester, the same as Gloucester, Bath or Leicester RU clubs don't interest us. But how many of us cast an eye over a Six Nations game and could name half a dozen of the England RU side? That's the difference, and until we attract people via the national team and big tournaments we aren't going to change much. Club RL will get more sponsorship and get more attention off the back of people seeing the national side, not instead of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    It’s down to the lake I fear.
    Was leaving that for Div, from a previous thread started with that title.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallaght Tiger View Post
    Was leaving that for Div, from a previous thread started with that title.
    You’ve got to be quick - hope you’re having a fantastic day

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    I’ve been meaning to post on this theme for a while. Having recovered from the Grand Final (in a good way), now is the time.
    I’m not necessarily as pessimistic as some on here. I don’t think the game is necessarily at all unattractive to the casual viewer. Compared with union, it’s fast and non-stop (an average of 68 minutes in play, is it not?). Eddie Jones mentioned something about union having to be more attractive to watch. I totally agree. I played it for twenty years and now I can take it or leave it.
    I’ve seen very many cracking games of league this season, and not just with Saints in them. Even when there was little to play for but pride, some lower teams turned in some excellent performances. My partner didn’t know that sport even existed before we were together, but now she’s often quite willing to come with me to the TWS for a match, and she can follow a game perfectly easily.
    Getting up to matches from Canterbury where I live is easy. Transport in the north by bus and rail is generally good. I have been astonished to be able to catch a bus from St Helens to Wigan (I know) back to my hotel at around 11 at night. There aren’t any buses at that time where I live.
    I took my son and a friend to see Saints play Broncos in Ealing – Spurs and Arsenal fans respectively. They enjoyed the carnival atmosphere, and the match (me, not so much – Saints lost). There’s no dangerous animosity between fans. A league match is a great day or evening out, and there’s always Perpignan when the pandemic abates. I think that the league community sometimes has a chip on its shoulder. I honestly can’t think of a better game to watch when it’s a good one, and even when it isn’t so good it can be compelling. I can’t say that of union or football.
    There must be a big constituency out there that could be like me – not from the north but a dedicated league fan.
    Finally, RedVee.net is good fun – the wit, the banter, the spats – and even the contributions from fans of other clubs…

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    Two very good posts the previous two.

    The big thing is next year we've got to have a great world cup, with tense exciting games, but also great atmosphere similar to what we saw last time it was held here. A England victory would be amazing for the sport, however following the final we'll have three months off, so momentum is lost. The post about Cricket and Rugby Union are spot on, internationals are the pinnacle - however I had tickets for Lancashire 20/20 the week after the World Cup, which sold out the next morning following the final, so much was the interest

    Maybe the sport isn't exactly improving year on year but attendances and TV viewing figures are okay, certainly no massive dips. I know lots of people who find the sport easy watching, certainly a lot of Union fans who don't mind watching it on the TV.

    I also don't losing the odd player to the NRL is a particular issue when attracting new fans, new fans enjoy watching the sport here, they've no concept of the NRL. I'm probably not alone in not really knowing a lot of the Aussies or Kiwis when they do tour.

    Finally rugby league fans are bonkers for travelling, for a working class sport, the numbers that travel to Perpignan, Wembley, Newcastle are phenomenal. Many book holidays around those fixtures, I've booked London for the England Semi Final in November next year and I can't wait.

    Yes there are improvements needed, but we're not dead in the water yet

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    You’ve got to be quick - hope you’re having a fantastic day

    Due to the lockdown here I need a haircut, who knows the bars have re-opened tonight, it could be boy meets girl , don`t tell the wife that really would be love plus one.

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    It's a massive couple of years coming up for the sport for sure. Aside from the World Cup we've got the (likely lower) TV deal for 2022 and whichever sacrificial lamb gets promoted for next year. There is a lot of recovery for clubs coming up financially as well, budgets to be cut, squads to be trimmed. It's been interesting to read the 2019 accounts for Saints, Wire and Leeds these last few weeks. When you see a club as financially sound and well backed as Leeds sounding alarm bells it doesn't bode well for those already operating on the bread line.

    The sport is in desperate need of something/someone to shake things up a little. There's some great organic progress being made in new (ish) areas by the likes of Toulouse, Newcastle, York etc who might be capable of breathing some life into the competition but I'm not sure whether that will come soon enough without hands being forced. I can't help but fear they'll bring Toulouse up this year only to end up with someone like Leigh (who are building a pretty good Championship squad) getting promoted the year after to replace them at a point when the whole league is working with reduced funding. That's not meant to be demeaning to Leigh but they don't bring any new players to the talent pool, they don't really have potential to push for five-figure crowds and they're likely to be just another Wakefield/Hull KR/Salford. It's got downward spiral written all over it.

    Hopefully someone somewhere is forcing SL and the RFL to bang their heads together to come up with a sensible plan to capitalise on the World Cup where they failed so miserably last time round. I can't say I'm particularly a fan of bringing in someone like Hearn or selling our soul to a private equity firm for peanuts but there's only so long the sport can rely on the top few clubs keeping the rest going on life support.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallaght Tiger View Post

    Due to the lockdown here I need a haircut, who knows the bars have re-opened tonight, it could be boy meets girl , don`t tell the wife that really would be love plus one.
    Think that's their catalogue covered!

    I'll just whistle down the wind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canterbredve View Post
    I’ve been meaning to post on this theme for a while. Having recovered from the Grand Final (in a good way), now is the time.
    I’m not necessarily as pessimistic as some on here. I don’t think the game is necessarily at all unattractive to the casual viewer. Compared with union, it’s fast and non-stop (an average of 68 minutes in play, is it not?). Eddie Jones mentioned something about union having to be more attractive to watch. I totally agree. I played it for twenty years and now I can take it or leave it.
    I’ve seen very many cracking games of league this season, and not just with Saints in them. Even when there was little to play for but pride, some lower teams turned in some excellent performances. My partner didn’t know that sport even existed before we were together, but now she’s often quite willing to come with me to the TWS for a match, and she can follow a game perfectly easily.
    Getting up to matches from Canterbury where I live is easy. Transport in the north by bus and rail is generally good. I have been astonished to be able to catch a bus from St Helens to Wigan (I know) back to my hotel at around 11 at night. There aren’t any buses at that time where I live.
    I took my son and a friend to see Saints play Broncos in Ealing – Spurs and Arsenal fans respectively. They enjoyed the carnival atmosphere, and the match (me, not so much – Saints lost). There’s no dangerous animosity between fans. A league match is a great day or evening out, and there’s always Perpignan when the pandemic abates. I think that the league community sometimes has a chip on its shoulder. I honestly can’t think of a better game to watch when it’s a good one, and even when it isn’t so good it can be compelling. I can’t say that of union or football.
    There must be a big constituency out there that could be like me – not from the north but a dedicated league fan.
    Finally, RedVee.net is good fun – the wit, the banter, the spats – and even the contributions from fans of other clubs…
    re what you said about union Clive Woodward was moaning about how boring England are becoming

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    The real test of where we are going will be in the next few weeks with the announcement of the 12th super league team.

    From its start the vision of super league was for clubs playing in front of large crowds in modern stadiums. The majority have the modern stadiums and have increased their crowds, so comparing the league now to 25years ago we have moved on ( not by much but the base has improved)

    However, there are still a few clubs in super league who bring nothing and if, as many people suspect, Bradford are to be the 12th team then the signal is clear, super league is going backwards. If the new club is York or Toulouse then we can start to move forward and force every club to bring equivalent standards to the game.

    Unfortunately I cannot see past a Bradford and sky bigging up Odsal as a great venue etc....

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulscnthorpe View Post
    I also don't losing the odd player to the NRL is a particular issue when attracting new fans, new fans enjoy watching the sport here, they've no concept of the NRL. I'm probably not alone in not really knowing a lot of the Aussies or Kiwis when they do tour.
    I agree, I don’t think losing players to the NRL is a massive factor in terms of people’s enjoyment of the game. Football fans in Holland, Argentina, Brazil etc don’t give up because their best players all disappear at 23 for more money in England and Spain, they just see it as the way the world is. They still follow their club game passionately, and provided the rivalries are still heated and the competition is still fierce they enjoy it for what it’s worth. It also conversely makes their national sides a bigger deal as those games are the time when their stars are all back on home soil proving that are still passionate for their country to be a big deal internationally.

    If we lose a dozen top players to the NRL it may slice off a layer of quality from the top of our game, but the fact that our players keep going to the NRL surely means that we keep replacing those that leave with players good enough to then head down there a few years later. For every Burgess and Graham that went down there we produced a Walmsley and a Thompson, and when Thompson left we then need to have another coming through to fill a spot here. And Burgess and Graham are the anomalies really, they stayed there and became stars when a lot of the players that leave end up coming back in their prime years.

    Provided Saints v Wigan is a massive game played in front of 15-20k with loads of local lads giving their all in a comp that is taken seriously it doesn’t really matter that half a dozen players that could have been on the park are instead sat in their Sydney condo watching it on TV. And if those half dozen turn up for international duty missing a bit of home, wanting to prove to their peers that English players are as good as Aussies and put that energy and commitment into winning games for England or GB we should take the positives. As I said earlier on, if we win a World Cup in 2021 with half a side that plays in the NRL nobody will care, and nobody that thinks of giving our game a look will care either, much like the average Brazilian won’t care if they win the World Cup with a side full of lads that play for Liverpool, Man City, PSG and maybe even one from Everton!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mufcsaint View Post
    re what you said about union Clive Woodward was moaning about how boring England are becoming
    I played against Woodward 3-4 times and he never stops moaning.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    Think that's their catalogue covered!

    I'll just whistle down the wind.


    Cold one this morning nearly reached for a colored hat that matched a certain colored day............................................... .
    I quit for my own sanity never mind the poor unfortunates that may read these.

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