Jungle Out There Banner
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 101 to 125 of 126

Thread: Teams next year

  1. #101
    Got A Season Ticket
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    390
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    The weakest part of our game is our kicking on the last play if dodd can fix that get him in

  2. #102
    In The West Stand The Wee Waa Womble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Harrogate
    Age
    30
    Posts
    5,459
    Rep Power
    22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    Richardson getting the nod wasn't due to injuries I don't think. That was just selection. But then Richardson had an injury he was recovering from at the end of 2018 which put Fages back in the driving seat for 2019 if I remember rightly.
    Thought he came in at the start of the 2017 season after Smith broke his leg in a pre season friendly
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

  3. #103
    In The West Stand STIDDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Kingdom of Wigoon
    Posts
    5,039
    Rep Power
    12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    Richardson getting the nod wasn't due to injuries I don't think. That was just selection. But then Richardson had an injury he was recovering from at the end of 2018 which put Fages back in the driving seat for 2019 if I remember rightly.
    Always thought this was one of the major weaknesses of Holbrook he was pretty indecisive on who he wanted his half backs to be, messed about with Fages end of 2017 and then gave Richardson a go in 2018. Richardson played very well for a dozen games then got targeted on his defence, instead of protecting him he just let Richardson play with a niggly injury and sink into a hole and got worse when Barba went AWOL.

    Something at the back of my mind tells me that Fages only signed a new contract on the basis he was going to be 1st choice scrum half, that's now turned full circle and Dodd is expected to be 1st choice scrum half. So next season is going to be interesting because Woolf is probably more direct and tougher on his decision making.

  4. #104
    Starting A Programme Collection
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    864
    Rep Power
    3

    Default

    Bit more to it with Richardson. We couldn't make a Jamie Foster decision again and to be fair to the club we didn't. I am not saying Fages is Alex Murphy, but I tell you this how he held Hardaker up before the cavalry arrived heaven knows. And lets be honest in the bigger scheme of things it was Cas who wanted him. I do feel Dodd needs more game time next season and that may mean starting to look after Lomax more.

  5. #105
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,306
    Rep Power
    14

    Default

    I like Fages and expect him to be starting next year. I don’t think he’s a bad player nor has he rapidly deteriorated from 2019 to 2020, I think the way we play just doesn’t suit his style and I would rather there was less responsibility on him when it comes to kicking on the last.

    As for Richardson, we’d have made the Grand Final had he played vs Cas rather than Smith.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

  6. #106
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    7,643
    Rep Power
    23

    Default

    I don't doubt Dodd is a better kicker than Fages, and probably has more variation to his attacking game, but can he tackle like Theo? I hope to see Dodd in the team next year but fed in rather than parachuted. I would like to see one of them, probably Dodd on the bench, then if something different is needed we have the option. Even if Theo is playing well it gives us the option to move him to 9 and rest Robes. How Theo would react to that I don't know.

  7. #107
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Macclesfield
    Age
    43
    Posts
    7,735
    Rep Power
    27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    I don't doubt Dodd is a better kicker than Fages, and probably has more variation to his attacking game, but can he tackle like Theo? I hope to see Dodd in the team next year but fed in rather than parachuted. I would like to see one of them, probably Dodd on the bench, then if something different is needed we have the option. Even if Theo is playing well it gives us the option to move him to 9 and rest Robes. How Theo would react to that I don't know.
    You can’t pick a 7 based on his tackling IMO, however good he is defensively. If we’re relying on our 7 defensively there is something wrong. Yes, you don’t want your 7 to be a turnstile and picked out, but we have to pick a 7 for attacking reasons. Fages has earned a spot in our 17 no doubt, but as you say, spotting Roby at 9is a better option.

  8. #108
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    7,643
    Rep Power
    23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    You can’t pick a 7 based on his tackling IMO, however good he is defensively. If we’re relying on our 7 defensively there is something wrong. Yes, you don’t want your 7 to be a turnstile and picked out, but we have to pick a 7 for attacking reasons. Fages has earned a spot in our 17 no doubt, but as you say, spotting Roby at 9is a better option.
    I didn't intend it to mean that you should pick a 7 based on his tackling, merely pointing out Fages strengths compared to Dodd's.
    However as you say we do not want a turnstile at 7.

  9. #109
    Got A Season Ticket
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    390
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    I hate to bash fages but tackling aside what are his actual strengths as a player?

    I don't think he is a bad player as such I just don't see him being good at any particular facet of play, he isn't a great kicker, isn't a great runner, he isn't a great passer

    He is neat and tidy and always gives 100% , but I just can't see any stand out skills he has? Or am I Missing something?

  10. #110
    In The West Stand The Wee Waa Womble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Harrogate
    Age
    30
    Posts
    5,459
    Rep Power
    22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JB1973 View Post
    I hate to bash fages but tackling aside what are his actual strengths as a player?

    I don't think he is a bad player as such I just don't see him being good at any particular facet of play, he isn't a great kicker, isn't a great runner, he isn't a great passer

    He is neat and tidy and always gives 100% , but I just can't see any stand out skills he has? Or am I Missing something?
    Id argue Fages is quite a good defensive kicking player, puts the ball in the corners well. His all round passing game is good and he runs good support lines. Not the type of player to run with the ball and cause defences problems much either. A half back in the mould of Danny McGuire really, can be very effective if youve got the kicking game of Sinfield and the running game of Burrow to complement. Our problem is Lomax, Coote and Fages are all fairly similar style players and, unfortunately for Fages, up against those 2 he is going to be the one called to be dropped.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

  11. #111
    In The West Stand STIDDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Kingdom of Wigoon
    Posts
    5,039
    Rep Power
    12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    I’d argue Fages is quite a good defensive kicking player, puts the ball in the corners well. His all round passing game is good and he runs good support lines. Not the type of player to run with the ball and cause defences problems much either. A half back in the mould of Danny McGuire really, can be very effective if you’ve got the kicking game of Sinfield and the running game of Burrow to complement. Our problem is Lomax, Coote and Fages are all fairly similar style players and, unfortunately for Fages, up against those 2 he is going to be the one called to be dropped.
    Fages has improved his kicking game this season but his attacking game is less consistent. Because of that inconsistent attack running game the opposition have concentrated more on Lomax and its probably one of the main reasons Lomax is well done on the try stats this season.

    We usually have 5 attacking players in Coote, Percival, Lomax, Fages and Roby but most of this season we were down to 3 attacking players in Coote, Lomax and Roby. When Lomax is heavily marked it then just goes down to Coote and Roby.

  12. #112
    Got A Season Ticket
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    390
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    I would say fages kicking game is poor, he doesn't really get good height on his "bombs" and he rarely manages to pin the defender behind his line with an accurate kick when we are in the opposition 22

    We do have a very good kick chase so we should be forcing a lot more drop outs by the opposition, In fairness to him we don't really have anyone with an outstanding kicking game coote is probably our best but lomax is pretty poor and it and even roby is a bit hit and miss.

    Watching the NRL really highlights the difference between us and them in this facet of play they have some superb kickers and are brilliant at setting up scores from the last play kick (maybe the weather conditions are better than ours and this helps or maybe that afl they play helps?)

  13. #113
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,306
    Rep Power
    14

    Default

    Wire have swapped some kid I’ve never heard of for Mulhern from Hull KR.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

  14. #114
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk fishy3005's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    earth
    Posts
    10,050
    Rep Power
    24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JB1973 View Post
    I hate to bash fages but tackling aside what are his actual strengths as a player?

    I don't think he is a bad player as such I just don't see him being good at any particular facet of play, he isn't a great kicker, isn't a great runner, he isn't a great passer

    He is neat and tidy and always gives 100% , but I just can't see any stand out skills he has? Or am I Missing something?
    I think his willingness to take on the line is a big asset. Sure, he gets tackled 90% of the time but at least he keeps the defence guessing, tires the opposition defence, and creates a foil for other players of ours.
    screaming in the family corner, scaring the kiddies

  15. #115
    In The South Stand
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,608
    Rep Power
    11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    I think his willingness to take on the line is a big asset. Sure, he gets tackled 90% of the time but at least he keeps the defence guessing, tires the opposition defence, and creates a foil for other players of ours.
    But it doesn’t, against a well drilled defence like the GF he repeatedly failed to create space for those outside him, despite taking on the line repeatedly, and didn’t poke holes through like Lomax either (who was equally guilty of failing to create space outside him - but has shown himself capable far more in the past).

    Whilst he does get in and around the defensive line, he always hesitates for a moment before passing, as if indecisive on whether it’s the right thing to do and always frees the defence up to readjust. Admittedly part of that is we seemed to deliberately move to a split halfbacks and he seemed to get right back to doing the right things as a first receiver the week before in the semi, so not 100% sure he was at fault for our lack of bite in the GF, but I just wish he had a bit more variance in his game and a bit smoother in transition from running to passing

  16. #116
    In The West Stand STIDDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Kingdom of Wigoon
    Posts
    5,039
    Rep Power
    12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    But it doesn’t, against a well drilled defence like the GF he repeatedly failed to create space for those outside him, despite taking on the line repeatedly, and didn’t poke holes through like Lomax either (who was equally guilty of failing to create space outside him - but has shown himself capable far more in the past).

    Whilst he does get in and around the defensive line, he always hesitates for a moment before passing, as if indecisive on whether it’s the right thing to do and always frees the defence up to readjust. Admittedly part of that is we seemed to deliberately move to a split halfbacks and he seemed to get right back to doing the right things as a first receiver the week before in the semi, so not 100% sure he was at fault for our lack of bite in the GF, but I just wish he had a bit more variance in his game and a bit smoother in transition from running to passing
    That's one of his weaknesses, doesn't have that feign pass or double pump pass like Lomax and sometimes ends up with a drop off pass that doesn't have any effect. Not took on the line as much this season, don't know if has been instructed to play a basic game. He has the ability to break down the defences but its just not happened for him this year only 4 clean breaks, last season was much more with 14 clean breaks.

  17. #117
    Got A Season Ticket
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    390
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    May just be me but I don't see him threatening the line , making breaks or carrying the ball to the line and putting a player through a gap with a late pass.

    I'm not sure if it is him not being a natural footballer and being unsure of what option to take or if he sees the option but then thinks the coach wants me to do this instead but he seems to be caught in two minds what he is going to do with the ball at times

    Not seen much of Dodd, does he have much of a running game or is he more of a kicker?

    Given the monster pack we seem to be assembling , a good kicker on the last play will be vital for the game plan I expect us to use

  18. #118
    In The South Stand
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,914
    Rep Power
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JB1973 View Post
    May just be me but I don't see him threatening the line , making breaks or carrying the ball to the line and putting a player through a gap with a late pass.

    I'm not sure if it is him not being a natural footballer and being unsure of what option to take or if he sees the option but then thinks the coach wants me to do this instead but he seems to be caught in two minds what he is going to do with the ball at times

    Not seen much of Dodd, does he have much of a running game or is he more of a kicker?

    Given the monster pack we seem to be assembling , a good kicker on the last play will be vital for the game plan I expect us to use
    The game plan will probably be much the same as it is now. Kick into the corner,rely on good defence and apply pressure.

  19. #119
    In The South Stand Angry Dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    3,653
    Rep Power
    8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brook View Post
    The game plan will probably be much the same as it is now. Kick into the corner,rely on good defence and apply pressure.
    I'd say so too with Bentley and Thompson looking nailed on for SR.

  20. #120
    Starting A Programme Collection Armourer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    live in Rainford / Seat in North Stand
    Posts
    625
    Rep Power
    14

    Default

    Im pleased for Leigh I was dreading Bradford or one of the other yarky teams with shit tip stadiums gives us another local venue that doesn't involve the m62 good luck to them.

  21. #121
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,306
    Rep Power
    14

    Default

    I’m not bothered about England/GB in the slightest anymore. I was gutted when we lost as GB in Australia in 2006, after that, I can’t really think of a time I’ve been bothered by the outcome of an international game. I enjoyed the England v NZ SF at Wembley and a couple of England games from the last World Cup but as a neutral and I wasn’t invested in those games at all. Ideally, I’d rather see none of our lads involved.

    I watch International Rugby League but as an interested neutral rather than as a fan and even then, I pick and choose my games. I watched the Tonga v GB game last year because I wanted to see what Woolf was about but I can’t remember watching much else and when the World Cup rolls around next year, it’s the likes of Australia, Tonga, PNG and Fiji that I want to watch rather than England.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

  22. #122
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Macclesfield
    Age
    43
    Posts
    7,735
    Rep Power
    27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    I suppose that sums up different attitudes.

    In the 1960's Saints often played on a Friday night so I would go there and then go to to watch Wigan on a Friday. We went to Salford to watch David Watkins make his debut. When I was at college in Widnes I would often go to watch them if they had a night match. It never bothered me standing with different fans.

    I watched the Sants v Wire Lancs Cup Final at Central Park in 1959.

    When I was travelling a lot with work (or on courses) I have watched football in Aberdeen, Celtic, Middlesbrough, West Ham, Tottenham etc and closer to home at Goodison and Old Trafford, although I'm not really a football fan.

    It amazes me that someone can't go to game and enjoy it for what it is rather than be bothered who they are stood with. If you don't like them just move a bit.
    I think you both have a point. When I was a kid I’d often nip down to watch Widnes when Saints were away because Naughton Park was no further on the bus from my house in Sutton as Knowsley Road was, and despite never caring whether they won or not it was fun watching Davies, Tait, Offiah etc. Going to watch what I thought would be a good game of RL was my main issue, and whilst my passion and energy went into Saints I could happily go to another game and just watch it for the sake of it. I’ve said on here before that I ventured out on my own as a kid one night to watch Widnes v Hull because it had the makings of a title decider, but it ended up being called off because of an icy pitch. The thought of not going to what would have been a great game simply because Saints weren’t involved didn’t occur to me really. But... games weren’t on TV then, and I was a kid and probably didn’t fully embrace the rivalries we had with other clubs. Would I do it now if I still lived there and Widnes were still really good, I highly doubt it.

    Dave’s point about internationals is valid though. I’ve been to games at Wembley, Wigan, etc and just felt annoyed most of the game listening to Wiganers, Leeds fans etc cheering for their lads and shouting abuse at ours, and vice verse I went to the GB-NZ international back at KR in 2006 and half the Scaff were singing that song about the fella who played 9 for Wigan despite him being in the GB side that night. The only time it’s happened and I wasn’t annoyed was when sat around loads of Hull fans, they were sound, they had no KR players to slag off and they don’t see us and Wigan as deadly rivals and just cheered for the side.

    But in the main RL is such a tribal sport that internationals do not exist in a vacuum where everyone gets together and forgets about it. The club rivalries seep into the international game, and you see that in the grounds when England/GB play at home. I don’t remember it being such an issue back in the 90s when the international game was more prominent and thousands used to follow GB on tour etc, but it’s become so watered down these days that tribal rivalries trump any kind of collective spirit.

    I also think the Grand Final has had a role in this, because having the showpiece game of the season in Manchester has meant loads of ‘neutral’ fans started going to the game, having a few too many and displaying their tribal natures quite openly. When you had Wire, Wigan and Leeds fans sat at OT last year mouthing off about Saints, it’s hard to take a liking to them when they’d made it their mission to cheer for Salford and basically act as spoilers all evening. I can’t imagine I’d go to OT if it were Leeds v Salford, Wigan v Salford etc just to get leathered and cheer for Salford, so I wonder why they did. But it happens, and so it’s hard to then want to sit next to their fans to watch an international as if you’re all rooting for the same cause when in fact they all hate us, and in some cases vice verse. As Kentish says, Cup Finals never had that vibe because they were well organised trips and down in London, they feel more like a celebration of the game, but the Grand Final is basically a short journey for most and has a different vibe.

  23. #123
    Got A Season Ticket
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    479
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    I suppose that sums up different attitudes.

    In the 1960's Saints often played on a Friday night so I would go there and then go to to watch Wigan on a Friday. We went to Salford to watch David Watkins make his debut v Oldham. When I was at college in Widnes I would often go to watch them if they had a night match. It never bothered me standing with different fans.

    I watched the Sants v Wire Lancs Cup Final at Central Park in 1959.

    When I was travelling a lot with work (or on courses) I have watched football in Aberdeen, Celtic, Middlesbrough, West Ham, Tottenham etc and closer to home at Goodison and Old Trafford, although I'm not really a football fan.

    It amazes me that someone can't go to game and enjoy it for what it is rather than be bothered who they are stood with. If you don't like them just move a bit.
    I used to go to a lot of games as a neutral last one I went was the cc semi final at Saints between Leeds and wanky and made a point of staniding with the Leeds fans

  24. #124
    In The South Stand Angry Dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    3,653
    Rep Power
    8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    I suppose that sums up different attitudes.

    In the 1960's Saints often played on a Friday night so I would go there and then go to to watch Wigan on a Friday. We went to Salford to watch David Watkins make his debut v Oldham. When I was at college in Widnes I would often go to watch them if they had a night match. It never bothered me standing with different fans.

    I watched the Sants v Wire Lancs Cup Final at Central Park in 1959.

    When I was travelling a lot with work (or on courses) I have watched football in Aberdeen, Celtic, Middlesbrough, West Ham, Tottenham etc and closer to home at Goodison and Old Trafford, although I'm not really a football fan.

    It amazes me that someone can't go to game and enjoy it for what it is rather than be bothered who they are stood with. If you don't like them just move a bit.

  25. #125
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Newport, Shropshire
    Posts
    1,736
    Rep Power
    8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    I also like the Gaelic football, another very fast tough game, as is its derivative Aussie Rules.
    Australian Rules Football has the distinction of being the oldest codified football game. It was based on early public school football games and is certainly not derived from Gaelic Football, which was codified much later.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •