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Thread: Teams next year

  1. #76
    In The South Stand Angry Dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGSaint View Post
    Also thinking the same about Lees.
    I think we all are behind him to have a big season next year.
    He looked to me as if he was returning to a bit of form the last 2 games, he clearly needs to put some weight back on over the next few months but his head looks to be ok and that's probably just as important as his body after that injury. To be honest he could almost be like a new signing, imagine 20 minutes of Walmsley/Paasi only to have that lunatic coming off the bench and throwing himself at you. Or the option of using Paasi off the bench and then add Norman to the mix once he's up to speed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    He looked to me as if he was returning to a bit of form the last 2 games, he clearly needs to put some weight back on over the next few months but his head looks to be ok and that's probably just as important as his body after that injury. To be honest he could almost be like a new signing, imagine 20 minutes of Walmsley/Paasi only to have that lunatic coming off the bench and throwing himself at you. Or the option of using Paasi off the bench and then add Norman to the mix once he's up to speed.
    Iíd be surprised if Lees doesnít start alongside Walmsley but thereís the option to mix it up. Having 6 props gives us the flexibility to use different combinations based on the opposition and hopefully with a fully fit Lees and Paasi it takes the burden off Walmsley to do everything. Unless thereís injuries I canít see Norman getting more than 6 or 7 games this season, introduce him slowly but give him enough to work out how much he can contribute in 2022, whether he can step up to 4th choice prop or whether weíll need to sign someone of LMS/Amor move on. Exciting times though. So much quality in our pack!
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    He looked to me as if he was returning to a bit of form the last 2 games, he clearly needs to put some weight back on over the next few months but his head looks to be ok and that's probably just as important as his body after that injury. To be honest he could almost be like a new signing, imagine 20 minutes of Walmsley/Paasi only to have that lunatic coming off the bench and throwing himself at you. Or the option of using Paasi off the bench and then add Norman to the mix once he's up to speed.
    That reckless attitude to inflicting harm to himself has returned, would like to see him in pre season to develop his game to run better lines.

    Also just confirmed by the club that Norman has been signed up as a project and are hoping to progress in a similar manner to Walmsley.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    That reckless attitude to inflicting harm to himself has returned, would like to see him in pre season to develop his game to run better lines.

    Also just confirmed by the club that Norman has been signed up as a project and are hoping to progress in a similar manner to Walmsley.
    Yeah, I agree with you to be honest, I've always thought Lees' best work comes off the back of someone else and I'd like to see him change to angles slightly and try to find the outside shoulder a bit more, I'm not saying never run direct, just mix it up a bit.

    I also agree Re. Norman, there's certainly no need to rush him and hopefully we're not forced to play him too often. But he does need a few games certainly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson View Post
    I think you'd have to say Wigan have recruited very well and will be stronger next season. They aren't really losing anyone who will be missed too much- Liam Marshall is just as dangerous if not more than J Burgess has been over the past couple of years. John Bateman has proved himself one of the best second-row forwards in the sport and is coming back from the NRL with an enhanced reputation. Field is a really exciting signing, he's an X factor player and teams will now not only have to worry about French out the back, but also Field who is another who once he gets on the outside shoulder, he's gone. I think Wigan had planned Field to be a replacement for either French or Hastings, so to have all 3 available... there's some creativity there. If they can find a solution either way for G Burgess, that will help them also.


    I think Saints have the most strength in depth overall, though I perhaps wonder as I've alluded to in the thread about the squad numbers, if it was time to look at freshening up the pivots, especially the halves or looking for a speedy interchange hooker. Fans will be hoping a combination of Welsby, Dodd or Smith may be the ones to provide this spark given the opportunity.


    As for Warrington, there's talk of Widdop wanting to return to the NRL. So that may disrupt them somewhat in terms of having to find a new half, but with the emergence of Matty Ashton, Ratchford could move up in to the halves. Inglis could even play in there with Austin being the lead. I think they'll look to do more business as well before the season starts.

    I'm sure Leeds will do some business and they've shown that they're prepared to be ruthless with recruitment after what they did with Lolohea and they will pay transfer fees too. Sean Long's influence on their attack will be interesting to watch.

    I think Evalds will make a difference for Cas, giving them the speed at the back they've been missing since Hardaker was there. Eden is more comfortable on the wing I think.

    I do think the signing of Josh Reynold's by Hull FC is a risk because he tends to spend plenty of time on the treatment table or suspended even.


    Regards,

    STEVO
    Not much to disagree on other than the fact that I don't know much about Field, and I don't think Widdop will be missed if he leaves Warrington.

  6. #81
    In The South Stand Sean Day's Avatar
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    I canít see Norman playing any first team games next year to be honest, barring a few injuries. A year training with the first team first possibly

  7. #82
    Starting A Programme Collection Mike Stephenson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsepho View Post
    What evidence is there that Field could go on similar to how Dufty has, because one is an NRL regular and the other has played 17 games in 4 years at 2 different clubs, or is that just a completely uneducated guess?

    Of course its easier to back a ¬‘buy low¬’ signing to be better value, there is far less pressure on them, its not like hes going to have to run a side like Reynolds is at Hull, the expectation between the 2 players is completely different and they cant be compared effectively.
    What is the evidence and is it a completely uneducated guess?

    Field and Dufty came through at the same time at St George, though Dufty is a year older and his preferred position is full back, whereas Field's is in the halves. If I'm not mistaken, at the time the Dragons had Widdop, Corey Norman and had just given the mega money contract to get Hunt from Brisbane. That's going to be difficult for anyone to breakthrough. Dragons were struggling at the bottom of the table too. In fact Dufty has only established himself as a regular this season and after the season resumed, with the new rules. Before this there was talk of a release to Gold Coast. Field was released to go to the Eels who were one of the strongest sides in the competition this year. According to the stats he scored 3 tries in the 6 games he played there. He only turned 23 in September. You may or may not know that one of the best halves in the NRL in Cody Walker, only made his debut at 25. So he's clearly not done too bad and as I say, given the opportunity and in our competition I think Field could prove a really good signing for Wigan. He does have that X-factor skill set with his speed and he can create something out of nothing. That does not mean I'm saying he is world class, some people need to read a little more carefully. I think he'll do what French has done over here and grab the opportunity to show what he can do in a competition were there is more space.

    You can compare him to Reynolds. Why? They're both running halves. Reynolds won't be expected to run the show at Hull, that's Sneyd's job. You only have to read their coach's comments to understand that. And ask yourself this, with Wigan in the market for a running pivot, why didn't they go for Reynalds who has been on the market after the first year of his contract at West's? It's nothing to do with salary cap, it's because they see Field as offering more. As I do. And why did Hull try for Benji Marshall first? Because Marshall at 35 was still out performing Reynalds and will likely earn another NRL contract.

    I trust that answers your questions.

    Regards,

    STEVO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson View Post
    What is the evidence and is it a completely uneducated guess?

    Field and Dufty came through at the same time at St George, though Dufty is a year older and his preferred position is full back, whereas Field's is in the halves. If I'm not mistaken, at the time the Dragons had Widdop, Corey Norman and had just given the mega money contract to get Hunt from Brisbane. That's going to be difficult for anyone to breakthrough. Dragons were struggling at the bottom of the table too. In fact Dufty has only established himself as a regular this season and after the season resumed, with the new rules. Before this there was talk of a release to Gold Coast. Field was released to go to the Eels who were one of the strongest sides in the competition this year. According to the stats he scored 3 tries in the 6 games he played there. He only turned 23 in September. You may or may not know that one of the best halves in the NRL in Cody Walker, only made his debut at 25. So he's clearly not done too bad and as I say, given the opportunity and in our competition I think Field could prove a really good signing for Wigan. He does have that X-factor skill set with his speed and he can create something out of nothing. That does not mean I'm saying he is world class, some people need to read a little more carefully. I think he'll do what French has done over here and grab the opportunity to show what he can do in a competition were there is more space.

    You can compare him to Reynolds. Why? They're both running halves. Reynolds won't be expected to run the show at Hull, that's Sneyd's job. You only have to read their coach's comments to understand that. And ask yourself this, with Wigan in the market for a running pivot, why didn't they go for Reynalds who has been on the market after the first year of his contract at West's? It's nothing to do with salary cap, it's because they see Field as offering more. As I do. And why did Hull try for Benji Marshall first? Because Marshall at 35 was still out performing Reynalds and will likely earn another NRL contract.

    I trust that answers your questions.

    Regards,

    STEVO
    Nice try pal, but you have only quoted half of what Hodgson said about Reynolds, the rest of the quote was "Josh is an elite player," Hodgson said. "He builds his game around work-ethic and effort, and that's what we are after here at the club - he'll be a real leader for us.“ So clearly Reynolds is expected to run the offence alongside Sneyd, more is expected of him than there is of Field.

    So with Fields there is far too little evidence to show he could be a good player in Super League, no matter how highly he is rated, and how do you know the goons signing Field instead of Reynolds has nothing to do with the cap, it may, Reynolds may also have wanted more than Wigan where willing to pay, i, like you, can only speculate.

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    I was gonna say the same without stating the obvious.

    There has been times where Lees has run direct and I've thought he needs to be more intelligent with his runs.
    No need to run into a brick wall when you can side step or run into a gap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGSaint View Post
    I was gonna say the same without stating the obvious.

    There has been times where Lees has run direct and I've thought he needs to be more intelligent with his runs.
    No need to run into a brick wall when you can side step or run into a gap.
    as the old saying goes run at the branch not at the tree


    lees is a good player , best years ahead of him , he has one thing you cannot coach into any player and that's courage.

    I expect a big things from him in 2021

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGSaint View Post
    I was gonna say the same without stating the obvious.

    There has been times where Lees has run direct and I've thought he needs to be more intelligent with his runs.
    No need to run into a brick wall when you can side step or run into a gap.
    Footwork. Watch how Walmsley and Thompson shift before the point of contact to put their shoulders through 2 defenders. As a prop myself I love nothing more than steaming straight into a defender trying to knock them on their arse but thatís not how you make good metres or line breaks as it stops your momentum as well. Even if he can add a bit of extra weight Lees has the mobility and speed to cause defences issues by running at space, obviously this is not always possible and a bit of extra weight will help in those times he has 4 players in front of him.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    Footwork. Watch how Walmsley and Thompson shift before the point of contact to put their shoulders through 2 defenders. As a prop myself I love nothing more than steaming straight into a defender trying to knock them on their arse but that’s not how you make good metres or line breaks as it stops your momentum as well. Even if he can add a bit of extra weight Lees has the mobility and speed to cause defences issues by running at space, obviously this is not always possible and a bit of extra weight will help in those times he has 4 players in front of him.
    Two Quick Questions , when you take the contact do you lead with the shoulder or the forearm, and how difficult is it to free your arms and off load in the tackle

    I played a few a games at prop in lge (many years ago) and it was I could do to hold onto the ball when tackled let alone off load it, I found that a skill I simply could not master

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    Quote Originally Posted by JB1973 View Post
    Two Quick Questions , when you take the contact do you lead with the shoulder or the forearm, and how difficult is it to free your arms and off load in the tackle

    I played a few a games at prop in lge (many years ago) and it was I could do to hold onto the ball when tackled let alone off load it, I found that a skill I simply could not master
    I play union so Iím more protective of the ball as you can strip it in the tackle. If Iíve not got space or shoulders to run at Iíll tuck the ball in one arm and step in lowering the shoulder into contact, depends how high the opposition are tackling as to where they make contact but Iím essentially presenting my shoulder, elbow, hip, thigh or knee as areas for the opposition to hit and 4 out of 5 of them are probably going to hurt. If Iím running at a little bit of space between 2 players Iíll go with the ball in 2 hands. Couple of reasons for this firstly it seems easier to knock the ball out tackling from the side. Secondly Iím then into a position where I can twist to offload and bearing in mind in union you can pop the ball up off the floor straight after youíve been tackled.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    In The South Stand Dux's Avatar
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    Default Teams next year

    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    Footwork. Watch how Walmsley and Thompson shift before the point of contact to put their shoulders through 2 defenders. As a prop myself I love nothing more than steaming straight into a defender trying to knock them on their arse but thatís not how you make good metres or line breaks as it stops your momentum as well. Even if he can add a bit of extra weight Lees has the mobility and speed to cause defences issues by running at space, obviously this is not always possible and a bit of extra weight will help in those times he has 4 players in front of him.
    Amor is very good at late footwork too. But Iíve always thought that footwork is something youíve either got or you havenít. There have been plenty of very good props who just get their head down and pile in, but you need to be big to get away with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    Amor is very good at late footwork too. But Iíve always thought that footwork is something youíve either got or you havenít. There have been plenty of very good props who just get their head down and pile in, but you need to be big to get away with it.
    Some people have naturally good footwork but weíre not talking about throwing huge sidesteps here, just adjusting your feet to aim at a different point of contact. Thereís no way a professional rugby player canít have that coached into them.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    [QUOTE=The Wee Waa Womble;809933]I play union so I

    Big respect to anyone who can play prop in union, I was never big or strong enough.

    Fair play to you, being able to carry and scrummage

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    *makes note not to give Wee Waa any lip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    Dodd should be getting 12-15 games next season. At his age now, George Williams had played 58 games so he really needs to kick on. By all accounts Dodd is one of the best young talents to come through and at 15/16 was being talked about as one of the best ever young talents at that age, so he really needs a lot more game time next season.
    Dodd would be my starting 7 next season. Big ask, but he is the future of the club, and he needs the game time now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon Sexton View Post
    Dodd would be my starting 7 next season. Big ask, but he is the future of the club, and he needs the game time now.
    Coote
    Makinson Naiqama Percival Grace
    Lomax Dodd
    Walmsley Roby Lees
    Thompson Bentley
    Knowles

    Fages Mata’utia Paasi Amor

    Welsby LMS

    Would be my match day 19 for game 1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon Sexton View Post
    Dodd would be my starting 7 next season. Big ask, but he is the future of the club, and he needs the game time now.
    I think most fans would like to see that, but in reality he may be introduced gradually into the team very much in a similar fashion to Welsby. We probably need to cherry pick which sequence of games we can risk having Dodd on the bench so that the likes of Dodd, Fages and Roby can share 160 mins (2 from 3) game time.

    The danger is that if he is thrown into the deep end and he has 3 consecutive poor games he will most likely be crucified on here. But I do expect him to be more prevalent towards the second half of the season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    Coote
    Makinson Naiqama Percival Grace
    Lomax Dodd
    Walmsley Roby Lees
    Thompson Bentley
    Knowles

    Fages Mataíutia Paasi Amor

    Welsby LMS

    Would be my match day 19 for game 1
    Iíd be happy enough with that. I imagine Amor and LMS will rotate week on week unless one of them hits a particular rich vein of form. Unfortunately I canít see Woolf starting Dodd ahead of Fages though I would like to see as much of Dodd as possible next season, not just in rotation games either, playing with the rest of the first choice to see how he gets on.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    I’d be happy enough with that. I imagine Amor and LMS will rotate week on week unless one of them hits a particular rich vein of form. Unfortunately I can’t see Woolf starting Dodd ahead of Fages though I would like to see as much of Dodd as possible next season, not just in rotation games either, playing with the rest of the first choice to see how he gets on.
    We have seen it quite often in recent times at the start of the year with Richardson getting the surprise nod over Smith in 2018(?) and then Fages getting the nod over Richardson in 2019 so it’s not impossible but agree it’s unlikely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    We have seen it quite often in recent times at the start of the year with Richardson getting the surprise nod over Smith in 2018(?) and then Fages getting the nod over Richardson in 2019 so itís not impossible but agree itís unlikely.
    Both those were down to injuries at the time though. Itís not impossible but canít see it if everyone is fit.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    Both those were down to injuries at the time though. Itís not impossible but canít see it if everyone is fit.
    Richardson getting the nod wasn't due to injuries I don't think. That was just selection. But then Richardson had an injury he was recovering from at the end of 2018 which put Fages back in the driving seat for 2019 if I remember rightly.
    NEVER WRITE OFF THE SAINTS

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    I wouldn't just throw Dodd in from the off. We should be as worried about what is best for his development as we are for what is best for the team in the early weeks of the season. We're hoping he will be our 7 for a long long time so let's not cut any corners we don't need to cut.

    We've seen with Welsby how "supportive" some of our fans can be with young players who aren't immediately pulling up trees.

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