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Thread: Where does this Saints team rank?

  1. #26
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    I wasnt watching Rugby league in the early 2000's , I am a relative new comer but what I will say is the last 3 seasons (18,19,20) have been some of the best times I have had following Saints.

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    I can't judge anything before about 1985 so I won't say anything about 66 or other seasons because others that remember them have spoken well about them.

    So, from the mid 80s the 2006 season was the most dominant for a single season, but 2005 was a great season in the making and I reckon we'd have won the GF without Long getting nobbled at Wigan a couple of weeks before the play-offs as well as injuries to Albert, Pryce, Sculthorpe etc. It all fell into place in 2006 but if we'd had the breaks 06 would have been the second season of maybe the best 2 years in our modern history, and with a change of coach thrown in as well.

    2014 isn't even worth a shout IMO in terms of best teams, but 2018-2020 deserves a mention as three years of regular season dominance never seen before. I think our cumulative record in the weekly rounds over the 3 seasons is W-64 L-12 which I can't imagine anyone has come near over 3 seasons. We've won 8 out of 10 games (84% to be precise) for 3 seasons and topped it off with two Grand Final wins, so it has to be regarded as a very good era for the club. I agree with others that winning the GF next year (which we have to be favourites to do) would cement this side as a great side because three titles in a row in a salary cap era is fantastic regardless of the strength of the comp.

    The 1996 team didn't have the all-round depth of 2006 or the sides that won three titles in four years from 1999-2002, but the 96 team has to be regarded IMO as the most important in the modern history because of what it did and when it did it. In 96 we hadn't won the league for 21 years and hadn't won the Cup for 20. We also had a Wigan side that had dominated the game, had more money and had a psychological hold over us when it really mattered. The Sculthorpe, Long, Wellens era didn't have 20 years of failure to overcome, they instead inherited a winning culture and a club that no longer felt inferior to Wigan on or off the field, and so had alot less pressure because of what we did in 96. To win the double in that era and with all that pressure on us was amazing, and we didn't do it by winning a few play-off games but by running the gauntlet week after week in a FPTP system against a really good Wigan side that only dropped 5 points all season.

    Given the system that we operate in now it's probably the last season we'll ever be able to look back on and say we earned a league title the old way, week after week, pressure every weekend, hardly any margin for error, etc. And given the way that we won the Cup that season it would have been very easy for the team to have accepted finishing 2nd behind a very good Wigan side after winning our first Cup since 76, because it would still have been regarded as a very successful and historic season just for that. To push on and win 15 from 17 after Wembley, winning the last 7 when any defeat would have been curtains is something that no team since has ever had to do really because every team since has had the play-off format to fall back on. I suppose 1996 is our version of 1992-93 for United, 2011-12 for City or 2019-20 for Liverpool, etc. United have had better teams since 93, City have broken records with better teams since 2012 and Liverpool may go on and have better sides than last season, but everything achieved since then was made that much easier because of what those sides did with the weight of history on them.

  3. #28
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    I think we have dipped a bit this year certainly in attack but our defence has been really solid, 2 play off games and we gave 1 try

    It proably isn't an all time great saints teams and it's style of play isn't the easiest on the eye but it's a hard working, big strong determined side that would give anyone a tough match

    The 1999 grand final winners my personal fave team, just look at the bench, long, wellens,hoppe and big vila and then we added scully to the team!

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    I can't judge anything before about 1985 so I won't say anything about 66 or other seasons because others that remember them have spoken well about them.

    So, from the mid 80s the 2006 season was the most dominant for a single season, but 2005 was a great season in the making and I reckon we'd have won the GF without Long getting nobbled at Wigan a couple of weeks before the play-offs as well as injuries to Albert, Pryce, Sculthorpe etc. It all fell into place in 2006 but if we'd had the breaks 06 would have been the second season of maybe the best 2 years in our modern history, and with a change of coach thrown in as well.

    2014 isn't even worth a shout IMO in terms of best teams, but 2018-2020 deserves a mention as three years of regular season dominance never seen before. I think our cumulative record in the weekly rounds over the 3 seasons is W-64 L-12 which I can't imagine anyone has come near over 3 seasons. We've won 8 out of 10 games (84% to be precise) for 3 seasons and topped it off with two Grand Final wins, so it has to be regarded as a very good era for the club. I agree with others that winning the GF next year (which we have to be favourites to do) would cement this side as a great side because three titles in a row in a salary cap era is fantastic regardless of the strength of the comp.

    The 1996 team didn't have the all-round depth of 2006 or the sides that won three titles in four years from 1999-2002, but the 96 team has to be regarded IMO as the most important in the modern history because of what it did and when it did it. In 96 we hadn't won the league for 21 years and hadn't won the Cup for 20. We also had a Wigan side that had dominated the game, had more money and had a psychological hold over us when it really mattered. The Sculthorpe, Long, Wellens era didn't have 20 years of failure to overcome, they instead inherited a winning culture and a club that no longer felt inferior to Wigan on or off the field, and so had alot less pressure because of what we did in 96. To win the double in that era and with all that pressure on us was amazing, and we didn't do it by winning a few play-off games but by running the gauntlet week after week in a FPTP system against a really good Wigan side that only dropped 5 points all season.

    Given the system that we operate in now it's probably the last season we'll ever be able to look back on and say we earned a league title the old way, week after week, pressure every weekend, hardly any margin for error, etc. And given the way that we won the Cup that season it would have been very easy for the team to have accepted finishing 2nd behind a very good Wigan side after winning our first Cup since 76, because it would still have been regarded as a very successful and historic season just for that. To push on and win 15 from 17 after Wembley, winning the last 7 when any defeat would have been curtains is something that no team since has ever had to do really because every team since has had the play-off format to fall back on. I suppose 1996 is our version of 1992-93 for United, 2011-12 for City or 2019-20 for Liverpool, etc. United have had better teams since 93, City have broken records with better teams since 2012 and Liverpool may go on and have better sides than last season, but everything achieved since then was made that much easier because of what those sides did with the weight of history on them.
    Some very good points there. I still look back on the 96 season with my fondest memories as it was the first time I seen us win the championship, first started going to away games with my mates, started to grow up (), it was just a great time in life, getting into music, birds, going to Saints and Everton, getting ready to leave school and that probably carried on until 2008 when I started working abroad more, mates stopped going so much and it all went a bit stale. There's been plenty of good times since then, even if we haven't actually won that much. The 2014 final was a bit like the Saints of old, siege mentality, I honestly knew when James were on before the game we'd win, that was like getting a bit of the old magic back and probably more enjoyable than last year when were massive favourites, not to say I didn't enjoy that. It's been done to death on here but to me the ride is as important as the destination.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    Some very good points there. I still look back on the 96 season with my fondest memories as it was the first time I seen us win the championship, first started going to away games with my mates, started to grow up (), it was just a great time in life, getting into music, birds, going to Saints and Everton, getting ready to leave school and that probably carried on until 2008 when I started working abroad more, mates stopped going so much and it all went a bit stale. There's been plenty of good times since then, even if we haven't actually won that much. The 2014 final was a bit like the Saints of old, siege mentality, I honestly knew when James were on before the game we'd win, that was like getting a bit of the old magic back and probably more enjoyable than last year when were massive favourites, not to say I didn't enjoy that. It's been done to death on here but to me the ride is as important as the destination.
    Agreed. If you’re Saints and you win your last game of the season now you win the league, basically. The journey begins and ends in September to some degree nowadays, and none of the regular season games give you a sense that you can win a GF or not because it all comes down to play off RL at the end of it. How many years have Wire looked the business in April, May, June, July etc and people talked them up as champions. It means nothing nowadays if you can’t win your last two or three games of the season in September.

    Back then every week could have ended it and every win contributed to it, it was a rollercoaster from start to finish. People rightfully boast of us winning 26 and losing 4 last season, but now many of the 26 wins did we need to win? In 1996 we needed to win every game we won, and losing any of them would have meant no league title. Who knows how the side of 99 would have coped with winning our first title for nearly 25 years had the side of 96 not won it.

    And yes, I was 18 going on 19 that summer, best time of my life. Euro 96, festivals, music was great, I was doing okay with the opposite sex, Saints were going to win the first title of my lifetime etc, that is all important as well.

  6. #31
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    Hard to call this one. Like Gray I'm not calling anything before 1985 and there's the obvious caveat that the format of the league has chanegd so many times since then. I'll start with the easiest to call. This side is nowhere near on a par with that 2006 team. IIRC the likes of Vinnie Anderson could'nt even get in that team. It was one of the all time best teams in the UK. Likewise the teams around 2000 were full of world class players; remember that side beat Wayne Bennett's Brisbane and played some beautiful rugby.

    Its contenders are the 1996 Championship winners, the later sides that lost the GF's to Leeds/Wigan and the 2014 team.

    The 1996 team had some great talent, but it all fell away alarmingly after the second Wembley win in 1997 culminating in batterings in the WCC (who did'nt but anyone remember that awful yellow hair in Auckland) and an absolute pasting at home against Wigan. Hard to decide whether those lowlights overide the fact that the 1996 team ended the Wigan dominance and brought the first major trophies to Saints for 21 years.

    The 2014 team finished top of the pile but I think most were doubtful we'd beat Wigan in the final and were given a massive headstart by Flower's yobbery; there was a sneaking suspicion back then that Wigan were still able to bully the pack so that stupidity went a long way to rendering that concern irrelevant. It was a generally forgettable season in terms of rugby entertainment and it had many players who were past it (Wello) or just one dimensional toilers (Flanagan, Laffranchi etc). This current side beats them pretty easily for me.

    The other contenders are the Challenge Cup winning teams that lost out to Leeds in the final. They were great teams but we just could'nt get it done when it mattered. However: we're they playing better quality teams than now, those Leeds teams were pretty remarkable? We're we the victims of bad luck? Counterwise: Did this side trump them now because they did win and go back to back off the back of beign 16 points clear last season?

    There's so many variables that it becomes a really interesting question that provokes a load of different opinions.

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