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Thread: Where does this Saints team rank?

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Blobbynator's Avatar
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    Default Where does this Saints team rank?

    There's been many great Saints team down the years.

    You can go back to 1966 when we won the league and cup double and 1996 when we dethroned Wigan and won the double also.

    1999 and 2000 the last time Saints went back to back and then in 2001 we backed it up with the WCC and CC.

    The 2006 team obviously won the lot and backed it up the year after winning the WCC and CC but failed to then retain the title.

    We've had alot of great Saints teams down the years and I think this one now comes into the conversation. It is no mean feat winning back to back titles, especially given the competition we faced on Friday, in arguably the best and toughest Grand Final ever. Some of them teams I mentioned above didn't go back to back but won cups during the season or season after aswell.

    Where does it rank in your opinion?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    There's been many great Saints team down the years.

    You can go back to 1966 when we won the league and cup double and 1996 when we dethroned Wigan and won the double also.

    1999 and 2000 the last time Saints went back to back and then in 2001 we backed it up with the WCC and CC.

    The 2006 team obviously won the lot and backed it up the year after winning the WCC and CC but failed to then retain the title.

    We've had alot of great Saints teams down the years and I think this one now comes into the conversation. It is no mean feat winning back to back titles, especially given the competition we faced on Friday, in arguably the best and toughest Grand Final ever. Some of them teams I mentioned above didn't go back to back but won cups during the season or season after aswell.

    Where does it rank in your opinion?
    I can't argue it was a brilliant final. We're obviously a good side but we don't exactly have much to beat, we were pretty comfortable most of the season and then ballsed it up at the end but in retrospect we managed to come good at the right time, credit to Woolf for that but as has been said over and over, I'd like to see us be a bit more expansive. I think we have the blueprint to dominate for a few years though.

    As for next season, Wigan look stronger, so do we, Leeds not sure, Warrington I'm not really worried, Hull are crap and I can't see any other team except maybe Huddersfield doing much.

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    Learning All The Songs theres only one stan wall's Avatar
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    Where this current side goes depends on two big factors. Can we adequately replace Robes in the next 12-18 months, does the club see Smith as his natural heir? Dodds will undoubtedly be introduced next season, a top quality scrum half would massively improve this side. Both will need time to develop but deserve an opportunity to make that position their own.
    We were patient with Grace / Bentley / Welsby and hopefully reap the benefits.


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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk STIDDY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    I can't argue it was a brilliant final. We're obviously a good side but we don't exactly have much to beat, we were pretty comfortable most of the season and then ballsed it up at the end but in retrospect we managed to come good at the right time, credit to Woolf for that but as has been said over and over, I'd like to see us be a bit more expansive. I think we have the blueprint to dominate for a few years though.

    As for next season, Wigan look stronger, so do we, Leeds not sure, Warrington I'm not really worried, Hull are crap and I can't see any other team except maybe Huddersfield doing much.
    I tend to agree, the standard of super league is not as good and the quality of players not as good compared to those earlier successful years. There does seem to be a lot of inconsistency from the officials in what type of game we are getting with many variables from week to week. Because of that I would rank it down the bottom of the scale in our back to back achievements.

    Next season we are on solid foundations having spiced up the pack and playing smart introductions for Dodd, Simm and Welsby, if those 3 new forwards are successful, Percival and Lees back to full form and the 3 new kids transition quickly I don't see why we can fro the double again with a bit more entertaining style.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I tend to agree, the standard of super league is not as good and the quality of players not as good compared to those earlier successful years. There does seem to be a lot of inconsistency from the officials in what type of game we are getting with many variables from week to week. Because of that I would rank it down the bottom of the scale in our back to back achievements.

    Next season we are on solid foundations having spiced up the pack and playing smart introductions for Dodd, Simm and Welsby, if those 3 new forwards are successful, Percival and Lees back to full form and the 3 new kids transition quickly I don't see why we can fro the double again with a bit more entertaining style.
    Yeah, same here. Probably not really the right time to be thinking of next season but I think most want to forget this bloody year Champions or not. It's a time to be positive though, lets hope by the start of next season we're back in the grounds, we use the ball a bit more and Greg Inglis comes over here weighing 22 stone.

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    I think both the teams circa 2000 and 2006 were the best I've seen, full of international class players and the odd world class player.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk The Wee Waa Womble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    There's been many great Saints team down the years.

    You can go back to 1966 when we won the league and cup double and 1996 when we dethroned Wigan and won the double also.

    1999 and 2000 the last time Saints went back to back and then in 2001 we backed it up with the WCC and CC.

    The 2006 team obviously won the lot and backed it up the year after winning the WCC and CC but failed to then retain the title.

    We've had alot of great Saints teams down the years and I think this one now comes into the conversation. It is no mean feat winning back to back titles, especially given the competition we faced on Friday, in arguably the best and toughest Grand Final ever. Some of them teams I mentioned above didn't go back to back but won cups during the season or season after aswell.

    Where does it rank in your opinion?
    Can’t comment on the 1996 team as I don’t really remember it. I don’t think this side is anywhere near the level of the 2000, 2002 or 2006 sides. I would rank them above the 2014 side though.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    In The South Stand Tabasco's Avatar
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    I find it impossible to compare past teams with the present because of significant changes in circumstances as well as variables in the criteria against which you measure them. Are we judging greatness on the basis of the standing of individuals, for instance, or the flowing style of play, the ease with which the opposition is beaten, the miserliness of the defence or the extent of the feel good factor that supporters gain from watching.

    The current methods of fitness and conditioning allied with more focussed coaching in specific aspects of the game including tackling techniques and wrestling, tactical kicking and set moves in given circumstances mean that today’s side collectively are as good as most, possibly all, from the past. As individuals, however, many seem inferior to various predecessors who were more empowered to play what they saw in front of them and did so, albeit often against teams of lower abilities and against side less well organised that today’s opposition.

    As a consequence, I suspect that the 2020 side might well beat any team from the past if it was able to prepare in the manner adopted nowadays while the historical team was only able to use past methods. Equally, however, I think that if you took the side from 2006 and were able to prepare it using current systems while still allowing individuality to shine through, the outcome might be different. At the end of mulling over the various issues, I can only conclude that for me the greatest senses of achievement have been the Grand Final victories against Bradford (twice) and the 2 most recent beatings of Wigan rather than other wins against Hull, Salford and Wigan. In each case this is possibly because it followed from a hard fought, back-to-the-wall encounter.

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    It's hard to make a case for this being a "better" team than our two modern great sides of 2001 and 2006 (World Champion teams.) However I'd rather concentrate on the positives...this team is ruthlessly effective, they clearly have a great culture, they work unbelievably hard for each other and are amazingly consistent. Could you make a case for Knowles over Sculthorpe, Fages over Long, Naiqama over Lyon, etc.? Of course not...but as a team they wouldn't get blown off the park by anyone because of the character in the team. If you value honesty and graft over pure electrifying talent then this should be your favourite Saints team ever, for me.

    I suppose the greatest tribute you can give is that the class of 2019-20 is right at home on that hypothetical list of great teams...whereas I dont think 2014 for example, despite winning the LLS and GF, would immediately come to mind for inclusion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    There's been many great Saints team down the years.

    You can go back to 1966 when we won the league and cup double and 1996 when we dethroned Wigan and won the double also.

    1999 and 2000 the last time Saints went back to back and then in 2001 we backed it up with the WCC and CC.

    The 2006 team obviously won the lot and backed it up the year after winning the WCC and CC but failed to then retain the title.

    We've had alot of great Saints teams down the years and I think this one now comes into the conversation. It is no mean feat winning back to back titles, especially given the competition we faced on Friday, in arguably the best and toughest Grand Final ever. Some of them teams I mentioned above didn't go back to back but won cups during the season or season after aswell.

    Where does it rank in your opinion?
    The 96 team was surprising average whereas the 2006 was full of stars playing at their prime.’ The best team ‘ in terms of what ? Last year we were record breakers so you could argue that team was the best but would last years team have beaten the 2006 team ? I’m not sure they would .

    I’d say that 2006 team was the best lineup we have had , certainly in my life time . My dad would say the 66 team

    As an afterthought , the 96 team gave us the 1st SL and arguable the finest most memorable CC final of all time . It’s a good question

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    The back to back Champions of 69/70 and 70/71 was an excellent side and topped it off with the CC in 72. I don't think they ever got the credit deserved due to the 4 cup 66 team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyprus View Post
    The back to back Champions of 69/70 and 70/71 was an excellent side and topped it off with the CC in 72. I don't think they ever got the credit deserved due to the 4 cup 66 team.
    Many of the older fans would probably say the 1966 achievements and domination was very similar to the 2006 one.

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    1966 for me.

    To win the double back then was a rarity.

    I'm sure there are historians who can correct me but I don't think it had been done for 30yrs and it had only been done a few times in the history of the game.

    To put it in to context I'd watched that team coming together over the preceeding four or five years so the players were my boyhood heroes so I'm biased

    I'm just lucky to have watched Saints over some great eras

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    Tough choice for me between 1996 and 2006 teams, started watching Saints in ‘77 and only saw us win two trophy’s, Regal against Leeds and Lancs cup against the mighty Rochdale. Went to ‘78, ‘87, ‘89 and ‘91 challenge cup final resulting in four losses so to win league and cup double in ‘96 made them my favourite team. I even hitchhiked home from the lakes to see us beat w@nky to win league. However, the all conquering team of 2006 were the model of consistency, efficiency and we’re ruthless. So I,m going to sit on the fence and say ‘96 is my favourite team, ‘06 the best team.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saintsaregods View Post
    Tough choice for me between 1996 and 2006 teams, started watching Saints in ‘77 and only saw us win two trophy’s, Regal against Leeds and Lancs cup against the mighty Rochdale. Went to ‘78, ‘87, ‘89 and ‘91 challenge cup final resulting in four losses so to win league and cup double in ‘96 made them my favourite team. I even hitchhiked home from the lakes to see us beat w@nky to win league. However, the all conquering team of 2006 were the model of consistency, efficiency and we’re ruthless. So I,m going to sit on the fence and say ‘96 is my favourite team, ‘06 the best team.
    2006 was the best team, every single player in the GF was an international player (apart from Fa'asavalu) and we had 5 genuine World class players in that side. Cunningham, Long, Lyon Sculthorpe and Wellens

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    I think it's more about can this current squad, with a few tweaks, win the SL for a 3rd time in 3 years.

    Then you start talking about dynasties, and that's what they'll be aiming to achieve.

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    The real possibility of three in a row is an interesting one!
    The team, more or less the same as last season, has adapted well to the new rules under Covid. Throw in the new signings, and the likes of Lewis Dodd (plan B?), and who knows?
    ...Do we know yet what the rules for 2021 will be?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    The real possibility of three in a row is an interesting one!
    The team, more or less the same as last season, has adapted well to the new rules under Covid. Throw in the new signings, and the likes of Lewis Dodd (plan B?), and who knows?
    ...Do we know yet what the rules for 2021 will be?
    Some changes for 2021 include: Warrington will be declared intergalactic champions having defeated a space federation invitation 17, a team consisting of 17 whining, shapeless, puss ridden blobs, led by Chris Hill, beat the space federation. The game is settled when Robert BOHICA hicks awards a penalty at 79:58, which he duly converts himself before signing a full time contract with the wolfs.

    All seasons since 1955 will be declared null and void, Steve Price will appear in Coronation street as Gail's long lost twin brother, Lineham shares a noble prize with Lam for humility, the open top bus parade will last from New Years day up until the anniversary of their last victory against Saints.

    Greg Inglis will arrive & will be given his own postcode which will appear on his shirt rather than his name. He will also be granted permission to play despite being orbited by several moons due to his gravitational pull. Their defensive line will be set at 8 metres & penalties awarded in their favour should the official have the audacity to forget.

    One thing that won't change . . . . . . . . they'll still be grubby, irrelevant, little also rans!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    1966 for me.

    To win the double back then was a rarity.

    I'm sure there are historians who can correct me but I don't think it had been done for 30yrs and it had only been done a few times in the history of the game.

    To put it in to context I'd watched that team coming together over the preceeding four or five years so the players were my boyhood heroes so I'm biased

    I'm just lucky to have watched Saints over some great eras
    It's hard for me to pick between 1966 & 2006, but if I had to decide it would be 1966.

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    For me it's the circa 2000 team. They won things at a time when there was genuine competition in the league, and we had massive rivalry with Bradford and Wigan.
    The 2006 team stood out at the time but Bradford were a spent force by then, Wigan were poor and Leeds weren't quite the team they would become. That's what allowed us to dominate that season.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    I find it impossible to compare past teams with the present because of significant changes in circumstances as well as variables in the criteria against which you measure them. Are we judging greatness on the basis of the standing of individuals, for instance, or the flowing style of play, the ease with which the opposition is beaten, the miserliness of the defence or the extent of the feel good factor that supporters gain from watching.

    The current methods of fitness and conditioning allied with more focussed coaching in specific aspects of the game including tackling techniques and wrestling, tactical kicking and set moves in given circumstances mean that today’s side collectively are as good as most, possibly all, from the past. As individuals, however, many seem inferior to various predecessors who were more empowered to play what they saw in front of them and did so, albeit often against teams of lower abilities and against side less well organised that today’s opposition.

    As a consequence, I suspect that the 2020 side might well beat any team from the past if it was able to prepare in the manner adopted nowadays while the historical team was only able to use past methods. Equally, however, I think that if you took the side from 2006 and were able to prepare it using current systems while still allowing individuality to shine through, the outcome might be different. At the end of mulling over the various issues, I can only conclude that for me the greatest senses of achievement have been the Grand Final victories against Bradford (twice) and the 2 most recent beatings of Wigan rather than other wins against Hull, Salford and Wigan. In each case this is possibly because it followed from a hard fought, back-to-the-wall encounter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakariki View Post
    For me it's the circa 2000 team. They won things at a time when there was genuine competition in the league, and we had massive rivalry with Bradford and Wigan.
    The 2006 team stood out at the time but Bradford were a spent force by then, Wigan were poor and Leeds weren't quite the team they would become. That's what allowed us to dominate that season.


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    You’re right about the strength of the competition in 2006 but I think it does that side a disservice to say that’s why it dominated. That was the best pack of forwards I’ve ever seen at Saints and I don’t think anyone would have lived with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    You’re right about the strength of the competition in 2006 but I think it does that side a disservice to say that’s why it dominated. That was the best pack of forwards I’ve ever seen at Saints and I don’t think anyone would have lived with them.
    Same here. I think on it's day that side would have beaten Australia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    You’re right about the strength of the competition in 2006 but I think it does that side a disservice to say that’s why it dominated. That was the best pack of forwards I’ve ever seen at Saints and I don’t think anyone would have lived with them.
    I take your point and it is very close between the two. We are comparing the two best ever Saints teams, arguably the best ever British teams and it is subjective to a large degree.
    Perhaps now it's the off-season we could have a thread comparing individual players from the respective eras.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    Same here. I think on it's day that side would have beaten Australia.
    Give over! This was the Australia 2006 tri nations squad.

    Shaun Berrigan,•Tonie Carroll,•Petero Civoniceva,•Justin Hodges,•Karmichael Hunt,•Darren Lockyer•(captain),•Brent Tate•and•Sam Thaiday
    Mark Gasnier•and•Ben Hornby
    Brent Kite,•Jamie Lyon
    Anthony Tupou
    Willie Mason,•Mark O'Meley,•Andrew Ryan, and•Reni Maitua
    Luke O'Donnell,•Johnathan Thurston
    Greg Inglis,•Matt King,•Cameron Smith•and•Antonio Kaufusi
    Nathan Hindmarsh•and•Jarryd Hayne
    Last edited by BigTuna; 30th November 2020 at 10:22.
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