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Thread: No Referee favours one club over another

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    Default No Referee favours one club over another

    People.
    Get this referee thing in perspective.
    Referees are on the pitch to do a job. A job they have trained for for years. A job they have excelled at to be promoted through the ranks to get to the top in their field.
    A job they get scrutinised on by their advisers/assessors every game in order to maintain their skills. A referee will discuss how many penalties have been given to either side, what for and in what position on the field. Bias is just not an option.

    Do you think that assessment is made as to whether the performance of the referee has affected the outcome of the game. There is, and if the answer is yes then its a very detailed look at why.

    Unless you have been on the field, or on the sideline, you have very little idea on how incredibly quick SL is. The ref has to be very fit to keep up. The concentration levels are staggering where switching off even for a second is not an option. It is incredibly difficult

    Then you have to be able to manage the 26 players on the pitch, the coaches, the fans (when in the ground). All this is physically and mentally very challenging.

    The ref is also in a team of between 3 and 5 top officials who are they to look at the play from the different angles. And even with that many officials it very very hard to get all the calls correct. You try seeing what's going on the the PTB 12m away at an angle if you're the ref or 25m if you're the TJ. Add to that you may have been running a distance at pace or a shorter distance backwards.

    We are all very "one-eyed' when it come to what's been given for and against our team. There was a forward pass in the build-up to Lomax's try V Catalan any mention on here. None. The other way would have seen an avalanche of comments.

    The game needs officials at all levels and the more competition there is for games the better that is. I see there has been a scheme announced to get 'veterans' to take up officiating. I trust that means recently retired players. Join them it will give you a totally different outlook on the game.

    We are better than this. This being whinging about the ref before even a whistle has been blown.

    Rant over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cunningham View Post
    People.
    Get this referee thing in perspective.
    Referees are on the pitch to do a job. A job they have trained for for years. A job they have excelled at to be promoted through the ranks to get to the top in their field.
    A job they get scrutinised on by their advisers/assessors every game in order to maintain their skills. A referee will discuss how many penalties have been given to either side, what for and in what position on the field. Bias is just not an option.

    Do you think that assessment is made as to whether the performance of the referee has affected the outcome of the game. There is, and if the answer is yes then its a very detailed look at why.

    Unless you have been on the field, or on the sideline, you have very little idea on how incredibly quick SL is. The ref has to be very fit to keep up. The concentration levels are staggering where switching off even for a second is not an option. It is incredibly difficult

    Then you have to be able to manage the 26 players on the pitch, the coaches, the fans (when in the ground). All this is physically and mentally very challenging.

    The ref is also in a team of between 3 and 5 top officials who are they to look at the play from the different angles. And even with that many officials it very very hard to get all the calls correct. You try seeing what's going on the the PTB 12m away at an angle if you're the ref or 25m if you're the TJ. Add to that you may have been running a distance at pace or a shorter distance backwards.

    We are all very "one-eyed' when it come to what's been given for and against our team. There was a forward pass in the build-up to Lomax's try V Catalan any mention on here. None. The other way would have seen an avalanche of comments.

    The game needs officials at all levels and the more competition there is for games the better that is. I see there has been a scheme announced to get 'veterans' to take up officiating. I trust that means recently retired players. Join them it will give you a totally different outlook on the game.

    We are better than this. This being whinging about the ref before even a whistle has been blown.

    Rant over.
    The thing is, in what top class professional sport would one official officiate in the same teams fixtures consecutively for weeks on end and then be awarded the most prestigious fixture in the game, again officiating the same team? Especially when said official ruled that there was no action to be taken against a player who was subsequently fined and banned a week later by the powers that be? Whatever anyones personal feelings are regarding particular officials and their methods of officiating (we could discuss the peculiarities of Hicks and the video ref and many others add nauseum) this is not transparent, it also makes the game look unprofessional. No one is suggesting officials should never make mistakes, they do a tough job which is pretty thankless. However, I can see with my own eyes that certain teams are allowed to lie on, have a third man arrive after tackles are made, ignore the 10 metre rule and get away with dangerous head shots. This has been allowed to continue for so long that it is now one clubs particular strategy. All those who think "It doesn't matter, if we play well, we'll beat them stop moaning", you just cannot beat a team that is allowed to bend the rules to suit themselves. That's why they bend the rules, to get an unfair advantage! Most teams aren't allowed to get away with it, game after game, one certainly is! I've seen it and so has everyone else.

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    So true. ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prez View Post
    The thing is, in what top class professional sport would one official officiate in the same teams fixtures consecutively for weeks on end and then be awarded the most prestigious fixture in the game, again officiating the same team? Especially when said official ruled that there was no action to be taken against a player who was subsequently fined and banned a week later by the powers that be? Whatever anyones personal feelings are regarding particular officials and their methods of officiating (we could discuss the peculiarities of Hicks and the video ref and many others add nauseum) this is not transparent, it also makes the game look unprofessional. No one is suggesting officials should never make mistakes, they do a tough job which is pretty thankless. However, I can see with my own eyes that certain teams are allowed to lie on, have a third man arrive after tackles are made, ignore the 10 metre rule and get away with dangerous head shots. This has been allowed to continue for so long that it is now one clubs particular strategy. All those who think "It doesn't matter, if we play well, we'll beat them stop moaning", you just cannot beat a team that is allowed to bend the rules to suit themselves. That's why they bend the rules, to get an unfair advantage! Most teams aren't allowed to get away with it, game after game, one certainly is! I've seen it and so has everyone else.
    Prez if you can see with your own eyes that a team is playing that way, why don`t we just play that way if that is how to win a game ?
    We will win a boreathon arm wrestle, because we have the best team, as a few on here think.
    Maybe just maybe deep down we know that we are not as good as what we kid ourselves, Wigan are a good side they have pace in their backline, a creative SH and forwards who play it tough.
    We showed we can play that way against Cats, time to do it again, stop blaming the refs.
    We lost them GF`s because we were not as good on the day, not because of rule changes or the officials.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cunningham View Post
    People.
    Get this referee thing in perspective.
    Referees are on the pitch to do a job. A job they have trained for for years. A job they have excelled at to be promoted through the ranks to get to the top in their field.
    A job they get scrutinised on by their advisers/assessors every game in order to maintain their skills. A referee will discuss how many penalties have been given to either side, what for and in what position on the field. Bias is just not an option.

    Do you think that assessment is made as to whether the performance of the referee has affected the outcome of the game. There is, and if the answer is yes then its a very detailed look at why.

    Unless you have been on the field, or on the sideline, you have very little idea on how incredibly quick SL is. The ref has to be very fit to keep up. The concentration levels are staggering where switching off even for a second is not an option. It is incredibly difficult

    Then you have to be able to manage the 26 players on the pitch, the coaches, the fans (when in the ground). All this is physically and mentally very challenging.

    The ref is also in a team of between 3 and 5 top officials who are they to look at the play from the different angles. And even with that many officials it very very hard to get all the calls correct. You try seeing what's going on the the PTB 12m away at an angle if you're the ref or 25m if you're the TJ. Add to that you may have been running a distance at pace or a shorter distance backwards.

    We are all very "one-eyed' when it come to what's been given for and against our team. There was a forward pass in the build-up to Lomax's try V Catalan any mention on here. None. The other way would have seen an avalanche of comments.

    The game needs officials at all levels and the more competition there is for games the better that is. I see there has been a scheme announced to get 'veterans' to take up officiating. I trust that means recently retired players. Join them it will give you a totally different outlook on the game.

    We are better than this. This being whinging about the ref before even a whistle has been blown.

    Rant over.
    Agreed, years ago apart from Eric Clay, you couldn't remember the refs name from one match to the next.

    One of the problems though is that we haven't got enough referees and players and coaches get to know what they can get away.
    I recall when Anderson was coach at Saints he commented that he was pleased that we had Ashley Kline for a match so he could coach the players accordingly.

    As fans we don't need to know the ref or where he is from, if they are there to enforce the rules which should be constant and the same for everyone.

    Maybe Refs shouldn't be named before a game, maybe they shouldn't even be named at all.

    Then coaches couldn't tailor their plays to suit and fans couldn't spend 3vor 4 days harping on about it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prez View Post
    The thing is, in what top class professional sport would one official officiate in the same teams fixtures consecutively for weeks on end and then be awarded the most prestigious fixture in the game, again officiating the same team?
    Not the referee's fault though is it, he doesn't pick the game he officiates...
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    The point is that every referee will have a different way of controlling the game. Over the course of 7 consecutive games, a team can get to learn the nuances of the referee and use it to their advantage. The whole thing is a farce.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    The point is that every referee will have a different way of controlling the game. Over the course of 7 consecutive games, a team can get to learn the nuances of the referee and use it to their advantage. The whole thing is a farce.
    100% agree with this, and i think this is the issue a lot of people have, i cant think of any other sport that would allow this to happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    The point is that every referee will have a different way of controlling the game. Over the course of 7 consecutive games, a team can get to learn the nuances of the referee and use it to their advantage. The whole thing is a farce.
    Again, that is not the fault of the referee is it! No point in bitching and whining about him and who he has/hasn't taken charge of in previous recent weeks, he officiates who he gets told to officiate and if there becomes something that a team that can take advantage of, there's nothing he can do about that - all down to the RFL making a mockery of who gets chosen and how.

    If we lose on Friday, it won't be because he has reffed them 8 times in a row so need to get over it.
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    Course they do. They’re rugby league people. We all have teams we like and dislike more than others, even if only to a small extent. They aren’t programmed robots

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    Two words. Ian Smith.

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    Without blaming the referee's, they do have their individual way of refereeing a game. If a refs particular style suits a certain team then they benefit when he refs their games. To me it is ridiculous for Super League to allow one referee to officiate for 6 or 7 games on the trot for one team. It may be to the teams advantage or disadvantage. Whichever way it is poor management for the fixture team, if Super League even have one. If nothing else it leaves them open to conspiracy theories, rightly or wrongly.
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    This is the second questionable ref decision involving Saints after the Hicks CCF debacle last year.

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    Is it not up to our coaching team to prepare the players to play to the ref's nuances? It's not like he's never ref'd any of our games before. In this modern day of most games being televised and clubs filming their own games, we should have enough VT on each official to educate the players with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_Claire View Post
    Two words. Ian Smith.
    Ive not slagged off an official since he retired. I couldn’t care less who is reffing on Friday night im more concerned about our seventeen who will be pulling on the Red Vee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cunningham View Post
    People.
    Get this referee thing in perspective.
    Referees are on the pitch to do a job. A job they have trained for for years. A job they have excelled at to be promoted through the ranks to get to the top in their field.
    A job they get scrutinised on by their advisers/assessors every game in order to maintain their skills. A referee will discuss how many penalties have been given to either side, what for and in what position on the field. Bias is just not an option.

    Do you think that assessment is made as to whether the performance of the referee has affected the outcome of the game. There is, and if the answer is yes then its a very detailed look at why.

    Unless you have been on the field, or on the sideline, you have very little idea on how incredibly quick SL is. The ref has to be very fit to keep up. The concentration levels are staggering where switching off even for a second is not an option. It is incredibly difficult

    Then you have to be able to manage the 26 players on the pitch, the coaches, the fans (when in the ground). All this is physically and mentally very challenging.

    The ref is also in a team of between 3 and 5 top officials who are they to look at the play from the different angles. And even with that many officials it very very hard to get all the calls correct. You try seeing what's going on the the PTB 12m away at an angle if you're the ref or 25m if you're the TJ. Add to that you may have been running a distance at pace or a shorter distance backwards.

    We are all very "one-eyed' when it come to what's been given for and against our team. There was a forward pass in the build-up to Lomax's try V Catalan any mention on here. None. The other way would have seen an avalanche of comments.

    The game needs officials at all levels and the more competition there is for games the better that is. I see there has been a scheme announced to get 'veterans' to take up officiating. I trust that means recently retired players. Join them it will give you a totally different outlook on the game.

    We are better than this. This being whinging about the ref before even a whistle has been blown.

    Rant over.
    I totally agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallaght Tiger View Post
    Prez if you can see with your own eyes that a team is playing that way, why don`t we just play that way if that is how to win a game ?
    Because when we have, we've been murdered by the 6-again rule.

    The first few games back after lockdown, it seemed the rule was applied evenly, and we thrived.

    But then, we began to concede a load of 6-agains but certain opposition were given much more latitude.

    It may be a subconscious thing from such refs, but it's unarguably a factor.

    With regards to wider bias, the Hicks performance in last year's CCF was the most blatantly one-sided I've seen in a final in years. For a ref who lives checking upstairs for pretty obvious tries, to disallow a legitimate try and refuse to review it absolutely stunk. But it's normally not the major incidents that dictate results; that day he hardly penalised Wire for offside when they were stealing a march at the PTB throughout, and he allowed them to get away with feigned injuries when they were under the cosh time after time.

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    I will add, though, that for years I've been advocating touch judges officiating the defensive line for offside whilst the ref focuses solely on the ruck and PTB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    I will add, though, that for years I've been advocating touch judges officiating the defensive line for offside whilst the ref focuses solely on the ruck and PTB.
    I can see your point here Webbo but then the vitriol will be spewed at them from sideline thugs who think they should have spotted the winger, centre or SR nearest to them who did not have his foot on the 10m when a try was scored against them on the other side.
    The comment above is most fan`s opinion of every defeat.
    Hicks made a big error in the CC in the opening 10 minutes that has been well highlighted anytime refs performance is mentioned, we were battering them for the next 10-15 yet could not score, Wire were gone, they scored and our "best team on paper" panicked, they grew another leg the rest is in the record books. Why did we not stray offside, feign injury or gain some other nefarious advantage our "by far the best squad" players could surely do that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cunningham View Post
    People.
    Get this referee thing in perspective.
    Referees are on the pitch to do a job. A job they have trained for for years. A job they have excelled at to be promoted through the ranks to get to the top in their field.
    A job they get scrutinised on by their advisers/assessors every game in order to maintain their skills. A referee will discuss how many penalties have been given to either side, what for and in what position on the field. Bias is just not an option.

    Do you think that assessment is made as to whether the performance of the referee has affected the outcome of the game. There is, and if the answer is yes then its a very detailed look at why.

    Unless you have been on the field, or on the sideline, you have very little idea on how incredibly quick SL is. The ref has to be very fit to keep up. The concentration levels are staggering where switching off even for a second is not an option. It is incredibly difficult

    Then you have to be able to manage the 26 players on the pitch, the coaches, the fans (when in the ground). All this is physically and mentally very challenging.

    The ref is also in a team of between 3 and 5 top officials who are they to look at the play from the different angles. And even with that many officials it very very hard to get all the calls correct. You try seeing what's going on the the PTB 12m away at an angle if you're the ref or 25m if you're the TJ. Add to that you may have been running a distance at pace or a shorter distance backwards.

    We are all very "one-eyed' when it come to what's been given for and against our team. There was a forward pass in the build-up to Lomax's try V Catalan any mention on here. None. The other way would have seen an avalanche of comments.

    The game needs officials at all levels and the more competition there is for games the better that is. I see there has been a scheme announced to get 'veterans' to take up officiating. I trust that means recently retired players. Join them it will give you a totally different outlook on the game.

    We are better than this. This being whinging about the ref before even a whistle has been blown.

    Rant over.


    I have to agree with you main point . I donÂ’t believe that any ref goes on the field with a bias in mind .

    The point I make and many other are of the same opinion , extremely poor officiation in terms of decisions is wrecking the game . With reference to kendall , two examples in the last two weeks : Catalan V Leeds and Hull V Wigan both show the incompetence of this ref . Not just bad decisions that potentially changed the course of the game and went onto kill what good have been a great game, (Wigan V Hull but players safety has been put into question. This happened in both games !

    Friday night could be a Great game but all it takes if a couple of shocking decision which could lead to a change in shift either way . I wouldnÂ’t want to win by that and I certainly donÂ’t like losing like that .

    If both teams are good enough to make a final , they deserve a referee who will allow the best team to win. .

    Do you really have confidence in Kendall ? IÂ’m more worried about Kendall than I am with any player in the Wigan line up. Not that he is bias , but what he is capable of .

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBT View Post
    Not the referee's fault though is it, he doesn't pick the game he officiates...
    In the statement you highlighted I wasn't criticising the ref, I was criticising the RFL/SL who make the appointments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallaght Tiger View Post
    Prez if you can see with your own eyes that a team is playing that way, why don`t we just play that way if that is how to win a game ?
    We will win a boreathon arm wrestle, because we have the best team, as a few on here think.
    Maybe just maybe deep down we know that we are not as good as what we kid ourselves, Wigan are a good side they have pace in their backline, a creative SH and forwards who play it tough.
    We showed we can play that way against Cats, time to do it again, stop blaming the refs.
    We lost them GF`s because we were not as good on the day, not because of rule changes or the officials.
    If every team played that way to win games, then the sport would be finished. Folk would vote with their feet, sponsors would leave and finally SKY would pack their bags and go home. If all games were a grinding "slugfest" played the Wigan way, no one would bother with the sport, as Wigan would win everything, since any opposition transgressions would be penalised when Wigan's would not be. Which is the one of the reasons (among many) that we don't play that way. We got the result we did againts Catalan snot because we adopted this style as you suggested, but because the rules were applied as they should be and their thugs were penalised correctly. Wigan's thugs wont be, they never are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_Claire View Post
    Two words. Ian Smith.
    You misspelt John Holdsworth.
    I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.

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    Cunningham excellent post, and it did seem odd to me as an outsider that there was such interest on the referee before the Grand Final. 1 v 2 should be quite a match up. You know how Wigan will play, although their attack has definitely stepped up. Those who are complaining about the ref at this stage come across as getting their excuses in early.
    I wasn’t sure how you would deal with Catalans , the test will be similar on Friday but Wigan are a lot “smarter” (should that be “smarter”?). I’m looking forward to a good match.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie McWolf View Post
    Cunningham excellent post, and it did seem odd to me as an outsider that there was such interest on the referee before the Grand Final. 1 v 2 should be quite a match up. You know how Wigan will play, although their attack has definitely stepped up. Those who are complaining about the ref at this stage come across as getting their excuses in early.
    I wasn’t sure how you would deal with Catalans , the test will be similar on Friday but Wigan are a lot “smarter” (should that be “smarter”?). I’m looking forward to a good match.


    You've never noticed how effective the scum are slowing the ruck and PTB without being penalised? How they always get another body to flop on just as the tackle is completed? Then they peel off one by one to give far more time to get their defensive line set? And how this seems more blatant under certain refs? I've noticed it in some big games between them and your lot

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