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Thread: Saints Vs Catalan Semi Final

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    Depends on whether our pack fancies it. Against aggressive forwards, we wilt in big games so itíll depend on whether the likes of LMS and Amor actually put in a half decent performance against a decent side.

    I also worry about them being fresher than us having played four fewer league games.
    I think this is overstated. I donít think our pack wilts in big games necessarily - in lots of the big games we have lost our pack at least matches the oppo but we make errors and bad decisions.


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    Big test for Woolf this game. Itíll be interesting to see if heís learnt any lessons from the loss against the crusts

    Playing another big, aggressive team in heavy conditions that we canít steam roll, he needs a plan B. Iím not convinced he has one but I hope Iím wrong.


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    Quote Originally Posted by undertheradar View Post
    Big test for Woolf this game. Itíll be interesting to see if heís learnt any lessons from the loss against the crusts

    Playing another big, aggressive team in heavy conditions that we canít steam roll, he needs a plan B. Iím not convinced he has one but I hope Iím wrong.


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    I've honestly given up hoping for a change in plan unfortunately. I think we know what's going to happen. I'm sure he'll play the same players he's been playing in the same way for what seems like forever. I can't see him changing now, I don't see any evidence he's capable of change. I shouldn't feel like his going into the finale' of the season. He might argue that his methods have got us to the semi's, that would be historically correct when we look back. We might get to the final and we might win it, but to me it feels like it's in spite of him not because of him.

    I've hated every minute of the journey with unfortunately more to come.


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    Such a big game for Woolf. I'm not someone who thinks he needs to go by any stretch due to the crazy year it's been but if he was to lose this after losing the two other "big" games we've had (Wire CC and Wigan LLS) then the negativity towards him, and merited in terms of a defeat Friday, means he's under severe pressure from game 1 next season.

    The reality is if we lose it's been a poor season and if we win it's been at least an "ok" one regardless of the final result. I know what people expect at the minute but we've had 1 Grand Final in the last 5 attempts it's not like we are there every single year but it has to be said we have no excuses at all for not winning on Friday. Regardless of anything that's gone on this year.

    Centre is the big call as has been said. Gelling got us from a kick in the cup and Folau will do the same unless we have some sort of strategy although if we have watched them at all surely there's a big part of our game plan going into that right side of theirs as Davies is also averaging more than a try a game.

    It feels good to have a big game coming up at the weekend, though. COYS.

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    We all agree then. Simm for centre

    Don't worry it won't happen. I also worry Wolfe is too stubborn.

    Im not as convinced by Welsby as a lot of people. Is Aaron Smith out of favour now?
    Is he in the mould of our next hooker??

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    I'm Thinking Aaron Smith should be on the bench every game. And used in both halves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGSaint View Post
    We all agree then. Simm for centre

    Don't worry it won't happen. I also worry Wolfe is too stubborn.

    Im not as convinced by Welsby as a lot of people. Is Aaron Smith out of favour now?
    Is he in the mould of our next hooker??
    Smith was unavailable for the last game due to a head knock at Salford. Even so a lot on here have said they'd like to see Josh Eaves give a game

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    Interesting debate, and it tells us where we are really. On one hand people are debating who should play centre, but are doing so almost exclusively in terms of said players defensive qualities and not what they could actually do with the ball in attack. Centres have always needed to be decent defensively, but when you start to view them solely based on whether they can keep the other lots centres quiet it does point to us having lost our way slightly.

    In attack? Well seemingly the mood has been lifted because our best prop forward is available. We have become so one dimensional that Walmsley is now a pivotal attacking component. We have allowed Fages and company to be completely absolved of any real responsibility for being creative, and have given up on our centres actually getting any ball and doing anything in an attacking sense.

    It’s a truly depressing state of affairs reading this thread and seeing how much we’ve all become indoctrinated by this stuff.

    As it is, I think we’ll win the GF from here because we are the best side left of the 4 and we should have two performances in us after the time we’ve had off. Catalans generally get to a stage where they get taken seriously and then fall short, and I would be shocked if we blew it against them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Interesting debate, and it tells us where we are really. On one hand people are debating who should play centre, but are doing so almost exclusively in terms of said players defensive qualities and not what they could actually do with the ball in attack. Centres have always needed to be decent defensively, but when you start to view them solely based on whether they can keep the other lots centres quiet it does point to us having lost our way slightly.

    In attack? Well seemingly the mood has been lifted because our best prop forward is available. We have become so one dimensional that Walmsley is now a pivotal attacking component. We have allowed Fages and company to be completely absolved of any real responsibility for being creative, and have given up on our centres actually getting any ball and doing anything in an attacking sense.

    It’s a truly depressing state of affairs reading this thread and seeing how much we’ve all become indoctrinated by this stuff.

    As it is, I think we’ll win the GF from here because we are the best side left of the 4 and we should have two performances in us after the time we’ve had off. Catalans generally get to a stage where they get taken seriously and then fall short, and I would be shocked if we blew it against them.
    If we fall against Catalans, and Hudds haven't announced Watson, I know what I would do; but I doubt Eammon would pull the trigger. He stuck with KC far too long.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon Sexton View Post
    If we fall against Catalans, and Hudds haven't announced Watson, I know what I would do; but I doubt Eammon would pull the trigger. He stuck with KC far too long.
    It's an interesting one. Should two semi-final defeats and a regression in terms of the quality of rugby being played be seen as a failure for Woolf? 100% absolutely. Would McManus sack him after 1 season? Not a chance!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon Sexton View Post
    If we fall against Catalans, and Hudds haven't announced Watson, I know what I would do; but I doubt Eammon would pull the trigger. He stuck with KC far too long.
    I can’t see him sacking Woolf after one season. On the other hand, Woolf doesn’t have a statue.
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    Peyroux i'd play at center to defend against Samisoni Langi

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGSaint View Post
    I'm Thinking Aaron Smith should be on the bench every game. And used in both halves.
    Yes, some day Eaves may turn out to be the better player but not yet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rommel View Post
    Peyroux i'd play at center to defend against Samisoni Langi
    Doesn't Langi play on their left? He isn't going to move Naiqama after him being there all season. Plus, why are people talking about Peyroux as though he is a really solid defensive player? I seem to recall him having some positional howlers when defending at centre. He's certainly no stronger than Naiqama in that department.
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    No matter who plays in what position, if we lose to Catalans (that we belted in the return from lockdown) something has gone horribly wrong this season. Catalans haven’t improved all that much, surely.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    No matter who plays in what position, if we lose to Catalans (that we belted in the return from lockdown) something has gone horribly wrong this season. Catalans havenít improved all that much, surely.
    I think it could be a hard slog if Maloney has his kicking boots on continually turning us round while of course Tomkins will always be a thorn in our side if there's gaps anywhere. The reality is that we should outscore them be it an arm wrestle or a game of basketball. The main issues I continually see is if it's not working or the passes arnt sticking then we have nobody on field or off field to change something. It's a major weakness in that an entrenched game plan is stuck to like glue.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Interesting debate, and it tells us where we are really. On one hand people are debating who should play centre, but are doing so almost exclusively in terms of said players defensive qualities and not what they could actually do with the ball in attack. Centres have always needed to be decent defensively, but when you start to view them solely based on whether they can keep the other lots centres quiet it does point to us having lost our way slightly.

    In attack? Well seemingly the mood has been lifted because our best prop forward is available. We have become so one dimensional that Walmsley is now a pivotal attacking component. We have allowed Fages and company to be completely absolved of any real responsibility for being creative, and have given up on our centres actually getting any ball and doing anything in an attacking sense.

    It’s a truly depressing state of affairs reading this thread and seeing how much we’ve all become indoctrinated by this stuff.

    As it is, I think we’ll win the GF from here because we are the best side left of the 4 and we should have two performances in us after the time we’ve had off. Catalans generally get to a stage where they get taken seriously and then fall short, and I would be shocked if we blew it against them.
    What you say is true, but I think there are reasons why people are looking at centres in defensive terms. Folau is a very good attacking centre, and very good on kicks to the corner, people have got used to our centres not very often getting the ball in attacking situations. That in itself is a sorry state of affairs. I don't think either Simm nor Welsby can compete in the air against Folau, but I think Simm has more chance of beating Folau in an attacking situation. The way Woolf has focussed on defense I wouldn't be totally surprised if he played LMS at centre, though I hope not. My preference is for Simm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkieTalkie View Post
    I think it could be a hard slog if Maloney has his kicking boots on continually turning us round while of course Tomkins will always be a thorn in our side if there's gaps anywhere. The reality is that we should outscore them be it an arm wrestle or a game of basketball. The main issues I continually see is if it's not working or the passes arnt sticking then we have nobody on field or off field to change something. It's a major weakness in that an entrenched game plan is stuck to like glue.


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    Yeh thats true. Can see Maloney putting a few kicks up for Falou. Im not sure Tomkins played when we beat them in summer, so he’s an added threat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    What you say is true, but I think there are reasons why people are looking at centres in defensive terms. Folau is a very good attacking centre, and very good on kicks to the corner, people have got used to our centres not very often getting the ball in attacking situations. That in itself is a sorry state of affairs. I don't think either Simm nor Welsby can compete in the air against Folau, but I think Simm has more chance of beating Folau in an attacking situation. The way Woolf has focussed on defense I wouldn't be totally surprised if he played LMS at centre, though I hope not. My preference is for Simm.
    Our best way of defending their set piece kick is by keeping them away from our 20 altogether. If we are squeaky clean in terms of no mistakes and no set restarts then they shouldn't get too many opportunities in our danger zone to kick for Folau.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    Our best way of defending their set piece kick is by keeping them away from our 20 altogether. If we are squeaky clean in terms of no mistakes and no set restarts then they shouldn't get too many opportunities in our danger zone to kick for Folau.
    Part of that is turning the ball over five metres out with no kick return.. but people complain about our last kicking options.

    Fact is if we can't beat Catalans we'd have no chance against Wigan or Hull. I'm confident as long as we keep hold of the ball

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    Our best way of defending their set piece kick is by keeping them away from our 20 altogether. If we are squeaky clean in terms of no mistakes and no set restarts then they shouldn't get too many opportunities in our danger zone to kick for Folau.
    They will get into our 20, there is no doubt about that. Our best bet is putting pressure on the kicker and not challenging Folau, our wide men aren't as big as him. Either Taia does a good enough job to legally block him, or we have 3/4 players around him as soon as his feet touch the floor

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    It's an interesting one. Should two semi-final defeats and a regression in terms of the quality of rugby being played be seen as a failure for Woolf? 100% absolutely. Would McManus sack him after 1 season? Not a chance!
    I agree; as much as it would be a failure of a season, I cannot see him doing it. More chance of a parting of the ways at the end of next season. The optimist in me sees Watson available and thinks let's not miss out on a coach I think is ready-made for Saints.

  23. #48
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    Do we have the money to sack him? Especially after the season we have had? Unless Woolf gets offered another job, he'll be staying

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintJon View Post
    Do we have the money to sack him? Especially after the season we have had? Unless Woolf gets offered another job, he'll be staying
    Not sure, but would our budget have been planned with finishing top and winning the GF (and maybe the CC) in mind? We finished 16pts clear last season, and they talked about a new dynasty at the club. Doubt losing in the Cup, not finishing top and losing out in the Play-Offs would be their plan?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintJon View Post
    Do we have the money to sack him? Especially after the season we have had? Unless Woolf gets offered another job, he'll be staying
    Could have offered him the £100k we got from winning the LLS.......oh wait


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