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Thread: End of Season

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by paraman View Post
    We won’t win the Grand Final as I expect Warrington will win easily against us. We play boring one out rugby and if the team we are playing has a good forwards pack we will struggle and that’s what will happen against Warrington. Makinson and Grace only get involved when they take the ball up the middle on the first few tackles.

    Woolfe has taken a Grand Final winning team and taken us back to the days of KC and I’m hoping Woolfe will be gone if we don’t win the GF.
    I agree with most of this. The paradox for me was after the lockdown we came out and played some pretty good stuff. Then for some reason it was back to the biff and barge rubbish. We are so much more than Alex Walmsley (world class player though he is). How has Woolfe been allowed to take a team that won the LLS with a record breaking stat and turn us in to also rans? His style has echoes of KC but as already stated not all his matches have been so dour tactically. So the question is why have we reverted to the bore fest non succesful tactics when we've played our usual game earlier to great effect? I'm baffled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    Sheesh this could be a thread to come back to in a few weeks if we win the GF.

    You positive lot
    There could be quite a few posters having a fair slice of "Humbe Pie" if we do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    There could be quite a few posters having a fair slice of "Humbe Pie" if we do.
    I will happily eat humble pie but I just can’t see us winning it, we have been poor against the top teams at times this season and where not the form team at the moment either. If lockdown had not come earlier in the season Woolf would probably of been sacked and we wouldn’t be in the play offs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paraman View Post
    I will happily eat humble pie but I just can’t see us winning it, we have been poor against the top teams at times this season and where not the form team at the moment either. If lockdown had not come earlier in the season Woolfe would probably of been sacked and we wouldn’t be in the play offs.
    Perhaps its a half glass full, half glass empty, thing. Season wise, we've had a poor first quarter, a brilliant second quarter, an average third quarter, ! ! ! ! ! ! ! TBA fourth quarter.

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    I don’t buy the narrative that people with doubts about Woolf will be proved wrong if we win the GF. We can definitely win a GF under Woolf but that doesn’t mean he’s the right man for the job. The season isn’t one game, it’s an eight month journey, and the journey has to be enjoyable or at least fun some of the time. Simply grinding through a season and then winning a couple of play off games doesn’t mean that people should be happy. The bottom line is of course winning trophies, but if we pick a coach and win the GF that doesn’t mean we couldn’t have picked half a dozen other coaches, won the GF but actually enjoyed the season before it.

    Look how close we came to making the GF under KC in that semi final at Warrington in 2016 where we led at HT and were on the end of some dodgy calls. Was he the right man for the job despite taking us to within a game of the GF? What long lasting damage would have been done if we’d won it under him and he was then told he could do no wrong? I doubt he’d have been sacked the year later and we’d never have ended up with Holbrook. This isn’t just about results, which in the main have been fine under Woolf, it’s about what we are as a club, or at least what some of us still think it should be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    I don’t buy the narrative that people with doubts about Woolf will be proved wrong if we win the GF. We can definitely win a GF under Woolf but that doesn’t mean he’s the right man for the job. The season isn’t one game, it’s an eight month journey, and the journey has to be enjoyable or at least fun some of the time. Simply grinding through a season and then winning a couple of play off games doesn’t mean that people should be happy. The bottom line is of course winning trophies, but if we pick a coach and win the GF that doesn’t mean we couldn’t have picked half a dozen other coaches, won the GF but actually enjoyed the season before it.

    Look how close we came to making the GF under KC in that semi final at Warrington in 2016 where we led at HT and were on the end of some dodgy calls. Was he the right man for the job despite taking us to within a game of the GF? What long lasting damage would have been done if we’d won it under him and he was then told he could do no wrong?
    Spot on. I think we can certainly win the GF, if we play the way we can at our entertaining best. However if Woolfe thinks we can "out arm wrestle" teams, then he's wrong. From watching the body language it's obvious the team don't want to play this way. After sweeping all before us last season (except for the Mr Hicks give away trophy) playing in an expansive exciting way, why change? The squad is pretty much the same, the players have the ability, let them play! COYS!

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    There could be quite a few posters having a fair slice of "Humbe Pie" if we do.
    It's a much wider discussion than the Grand Final for me. There's a whole range of stuff I'm unhappy about which won't be fixed whether we win it or otherwise.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    I donít buy the narrative that people with doubts about Woolf will be proved wrong if we win the GF.
    My point was more that some fans have already given the Semi final up before we've even played it. The whole thread is a wave of negativity.

    There's thing I'm not happy about or convinced with when it comes to our playing style or Woolf ability to take us forward, but people have actively given up already, which given we finished 2nd in a season of huge uncertainty (when we started pretty badly aswell and recovered) is pretty bizarre.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    My point was more that some fans have already given the Semi final up before we've even played it. The whole thread is a wave of negativity.

    There's thing I'm not happy about or convinced with when it comes to our playing style or Woolf ability to take us forward, but people have actively given up already, which given we finished 2nd in a season of huge uncertainty (when we started pretty badly aswell and recovered) is pretty bizarre.
    The thing is 2nd Best isnít good enough Iím afraid, Teams are not remembered for being second or losers in a final.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    My point was more that some fans have already given the Semi final up before we've even played it. The whole thread is a wave of negativity.

    There's thing I'm not happy about or convinced with when it comes to our playing style or Woolf ability to take us forward, but people have actively given up already, which given we finished 2nd in a season of huge uncertainty (when we started pretty badly aswell and recovered) is pretty bizarre.
    I suppose this tells us a lot about the collective energy at the minute. If the players feel the same, I obviously don't know, then we may as well not bother. Certainly a section of supporters at least need something to look forward to and that means being entertained I suppose, maybe everyone will get up for things come kick off but I for one haven't enjoyed the journey.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferester123 View Post
    The thing is 2nd Best isnít good enough Iím afraid, Teams are not remembered for being second or losers in a final.
    Saints have finished 2nd several times and gone on to win the Grand Final.

    Were 160 minutes away from being Champions and the players have the capability of winning it. Will we win it? I don't know, there's no doubt we have to improve on our last performance by a long way but we shouldn't just give up and write it off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Despondent Dave
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    We were one correct grounding of a ball from finishing top.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    My point was more that some fans have already given the Semi final up before we've even played it. The whole thread is a wave of negativity.

    There's thing I'm not happy about or convinced with when it comes to our playing style or Woolf ability to take us forward, but people have actively given up already, which given we finished 2nd in a season of huge uncertainty (when we started pretty badly aswell and recovered) is pretty bizarre.
    Yeah, fair enough. Our record in big games is poor but we’re also a team that can show up and win a game in half an hour if everything clicks. In knock out RL it’s about how you play on the day, and we can win it from here no doubt.

    I hope I’ve been consistent throughout that I think we can win the GF under Woolf but also don’t think he’s the right man. I understand that some think that attitude crazy, but I’m looking at the years ahead and not just the next month.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    We were one correct grounding of a ball from finishing top.
    Such is pro sport, indeed all sport, but it means we were the highest placed losers missing the trophy and a load of cash in troubled times. I'll bet Eamonn was apoplectic.


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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    We were one correct grounding of a ball from finishing top.
    This probably bothers me more than anything that's happened this season. I feel so sorry for Tom Nisbet. I hope he can put it behind him!

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    This probably bothers me more than anything that's happened this season. I feel so sorry for Tom Nisbet. I hope he can put it behind him!
    Well said Barry


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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkieTalkie View Post
    If we do get to the final it'll be seen as a vindication of his leadership & style so he wouldn't then abandon it at that stage.


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    Nooooooo that was my point agreeing with your excellent post in the first place.

    If this one up rugby continues as you correctly alluded to then we won't be in the final, never mind win it.

    We will have to adapt a more expensive, enterprising attacking game to do it. If we don't, we won't

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    by the time we play again , we will have had 3 weeks off . Its ok to have a bit of a break that is too long in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    We were one correct grounding of a ball from finishing top.
    you can pick up any individual moment in the year as the turning point.

    It is easy to forget that we were in dreadful form going into lockdown. We were hammered by Warrington, and we lost consecutive games to Huddersfield and Cas, in which we were abysmal in both, and we had an in form Leeds the following week. A couple more weeks like that and Woolfe would have been under serious pressure.

    I just don't understand our performances since lockdown. We came out flying, scored for fun - Grace was running in tries from all over, we were off loading the ball and doing all sorts. It was as if having 4 months of no coaching actually benefited the players who just played their natural game without thinking about it. 4 months of coaching later and all that natural style has been drilled out of them.

    I wouldn't be surprised if we did win the Grand Final - equally I wouldnt be surprised if we get beaten by 20 points in the semi.
    "If you're going to strive for a change then you have to keep going upwards,"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Nooooooo that was my point agreeing with your excellent post in the first place.

    If this one up rugby continues as you correctly alluded to then we won't be in the final, never mind win it.

    We will have to adapt a more expensive, enterprising attacking game to do it. If we don't, we won't
    Apologies Ralph read it again, thanks for your comment earlier, I reckon we're on the same page.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    I don’t buy the narrative that people with doubts about Woolf will be proved wrong if we win the GF. We can definitely win a GF under Woolf but that doesn’t mean he’s the right man for the job. The season isn’t one game, it’s an eight month journey, and the journey has to be enjoyable or at least fun some of the time. Simply grinding through a season and then winning a couple of play off games doesn’t mean that people should be happy. The bottom line is of course winning trophies, but if we pick a coach and win the GF that doesn’t mean we couldn’t have picked half a dozen other coaches, won the GF but actually enjoyed the season before it.

    Look how close we came to making the GF under KC in that semi final at Warrington in 2016 where we led at HT and were on the end of some dodgy calls. Was he the right man for the job despite taking us to within a game of the GF? What long lasting damage would have been done if we’d won it under him and he was then told he could do no wrong? I doubt he’d have been sacked the year later and we’d never have ended up with Holbrook. This isn’t just about results, which in the main have been fine under Woolf, it’s about what we are as a club, or at least what some of us still think it should be.
    I wouldn't mind us playing it tight to win a final, but not all year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint from Bury View Post
    by the time we play again , we will have had 3 weeks off . Its ok to have a bit of a break that is too long in my opinion.
    My gut instinct is that 3 weeks will do us good rather than harm, thats a long time to prepare well for a knock out game. We are not short on match fitness its just lack of concentration that has cost us in big games, last week it was 4 errors and 4 tries conceded on the back of it.

    I don't think Woolf's style of play is anywhere near KC's "Grind" style of play either. How do you explain we have the best attacking points and the best defensive points in Superleague. We also have more tries scored than anybody else, more try assists than anybody else, more tackle busts than anyone else, more metres than anyone else, more clean breaks than anyone else, you don't get those achievements by playing one man rugby down the middle for the majority of the season.

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    The only problem Belgian is we don't have it in us to wi tight games, we bottle them. Our style is two tries ahead which blew Wigan to bits when it mattered last season. Robes and Lomax are great footballers and super to watch. However along with LMS and Percy they are not what I call nailed down players. I get what Wolfe is trying to do, it's what Shaun Wane did, get average players and a couple of stars and grind, grind grind. When Wigan beat Wire in Wanes last game at Old Trafford, How, but they did. We can win it and do think we will beat Wire if we need to. I just think we need to pretend it's a new season in 3 weeks and enjoy it. We won it last season so the bottler title is for the record books off our backs, in theory at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyprus View Post
    The only problem Belgian is we don't have it in us to wi tight games, we bottle them. Our style is two tries ahead which blew Wigan to bits when it mattered last season. Robes and Lomax are great footballers and super to watch. However along with LMS and Percy they are not what I call nailed down players. I get what Wolfe is trying to do, it's what Shaun Wane did, get average players and a couple of stars and grind, grind grind. When Wigan beat Wire in Wanes last game at Old Trafford, How, but they did. We can win it and do think we will beat Wire if we need to. I just think we need to pretend it's a new season in 3 weeks and enjoy it. We won it last season so the bottler title is for the record books off our backs, in theory at least.
    I honestly think we will beat Wire. I think/hope the loss to Wigan will give our pack the kick it needed. I'm sure we can't lie down like that two consecutive games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    I wouldn't mind us playing it tight to win a final, but not all year.
    Completely agree. Play the play off games in whatever way is best to win those individual games, but the journey to those games needs to at least be slightly compelling on a week to week basis. We aren’t a mid table side that needs to play conservatively to win games. If we were I’d support whatever it took to win games if we didn’t have a team capable of anything else. But we are capable of winning games and playing a good style of RL. If that isn’t the way to win a big game, so be it, but most weeks aren’t big games.

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