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Thread: 12 teams in Super League 2021 it is then

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    Starting A Programme Collection Ell Saint Blues's Avatar
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    Default 12 teams in Super League 2021 it is then

    Agreed today.

    Club sent a document on Friday that stated in this scenario "that the 12th club would be selected jointly by the RLF and SLE" (Gareth Walker).

    Would do you want then?

    I think Toulouse should be given a crack, a French derby.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ell Saint Blues View Post
    Agreed today.

    Club sent a document on Friday that stated in this scenario "that the 12th club would be selected jointly by the RLF and SLE" (Gareth Walker).

    Would do you want then?

    I think Toulouse should be given a crack, a French derby.
    Me too, For selfish reasons.

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    If they are going to look at expansion Toulouse would be a good shout and at least it generates some domestic rivalry for Catalans.

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    Toulouse is sensible expansion. A proven club in an RL area, should add more to the international game in developing France, should increase commercial/TV revenue from France and adds more local interest for Catalans.
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    Toulouse for me but I wish they had opted for a 14 team competition. I wonder how they will decide

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Hemmings' Wig View Post
    Toulouse is sensible expansion. A proven club in an RL area, should add more to the international game in developing France, should increase commercial/TV revenue from France and adds more local interest for Catalans.
    Agreed.

    If not Toulouse, then London.

    It'd be nice to have both (and lose Wakefield)

    But I think we need a licencing system.
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    I'm in the same camp. We should go back to a 14 team competition.

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    Its totally pointless promoting Toulouse. Without a proper business plan between them, The RFL, Super League and the French Federation, theyll be set up to fail as Toronto were. Given the late addition, theyd need a far bigger cap, relaxing of quota places, a guarantee against relegation and a space in the league for a minimum of 5 years.

    That said, that sounds like too much hard work, so promote them anyway. Its better than a day saver trip to Leigh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by parrsaint View Post
    I'm in the same camp. We should go back to a 14 team competition.
    14 teams and no loop fixtures.

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    I'd be very surprised if it's not Toulouse, if only for the reason that it might just pacify a few of the expansionists who have been crying into their milk since yesterday.

    In reality, I don't see many better options. London is the only one they'll think of, but it's time for something new and I think Toulouse were probably just about the favourites for the Championship this year anyway.
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    I'd personally like to see Toulouse in. It gives Catalans a derby and another French side would be really good for the competition I think.

    Whoever is selected SL / RFL need to do their due diligence to ensure they have a good business plan and a good strategy going forward so we avoid any future mess like the Toronto issue.

    It also may be worth considering a licence effect and having no relegation for next season to ensure SL is stable. Whoever comes in at this late stage it will be tough for them to compete given the differences in salary caps between SL and the Championship.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    It’s totally pointless promoting Toulouse. Without a proper business plan between them, The RFL, Super League and the French Federation, they’ll be set up to fail as Toronto were. Given the late addition, they’d need a far bigger cap, relaxing of quota places, a guarantee against relegation and a space in the league for a minimum of 5 years.

    That said, that sounds like too much hard work, so promote them anyway. It’s better than a day saver trip to Leigh.
    And Covid will still be around next season. It will be Catalan all over again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ell Saint Blues View Post
    Agreed today.

    Would do you want then?
    London, but they'll probably pick Chicken Town.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    I'd personally like to see Toulouse in. It gives Catalans a derby and another French side would be really good for the competition I think.

    Whoever is selected SL / RFL need to do their due diligence to ensure they have a good business plan and a good strategy going forward so we avoid any future mess like the Toronto issue.

    It also may be worth considering a licence effect and having no relegation for next season to ensure SL is stable. Whoever comes in at this late stage it will be tough for them to compete given the differences in salary caps between SL and the Championship.
    You’ve got a poor chance of getting a new French TV deal if you could lose one of the two sides at the end of the year as well. Give them an exemption from relegation for a period and sell it as you can show a French side at home each week.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    I'd personally like to see Toulouse in. It gives Catalans a derby and another French side would be really good for the competition I think.

    Whoever is selected SL / RFL need to do their due diligence to ensure they have a good business plan and a good strategy going forward so we avoid any future mess like the Toronto issue.

    It also may be worth considering a licence effect and having no relegation for next season to ensure SL is stable. Whoever comes in at this late stage it will be tough for them to compete given the differences in salary caps between SL and the Championship.
    Agree with all your points.
    Toulouse is a far less risk than had Toronto been readmitted. They are a well established club founded in the 1930s and have a
    decent 19,000 capacity stadium. By including them it creates an expansion opportunity in a well established RL area, there's potential to attract new sponsorship and it helps Catalans in they then have a domestic rival too which generates interest and competitive edge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by parrsaint View Post
    I'm in the same camp. We should go back to a 14 team competition.
    Spot on play each other home and away and scrap magic and the lopp fixtures

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    I'd personally like to see Toulouse in. It gives Catalans a derby and another French side would be really good for the competition I think.

    Whoever is selected SL / RFL need to do their due diligence to ensure they have a good business plan and a good strategy going forward so we avoid any future mess like the Toronto issue.

    It also may be worth considering a licence effect and having no relegation for next season to ensure SL is stable. Whoever comes in at this late stage it will be tough for them to compete given the differences in salary caps between SL and the Championship.
    A 'derby'is pushing it a bit

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    [QUOTE=mufcsaint;804913]Spot on play each other home and away and scrap magic and the lopp fixtures[/QUOTE
    Absolutely! I'm not sure how you decide how the new teams are included. I'd still go with Toulouse and another two teams to make up the 14 but there would need to be due diligence and some form of licensing system as has already been suggested by others. I'd also scrap relegation for the time being for two or three seasons for stability.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    I'd personally like to see Toulouse in. It gives Catalans a derby and another French side would be really good for the competition I think.

    Whoever is selected SL / RFL need to do their due diligence to ensure they have a good business plan and a good strategy going forward so we avoid any future mess like the Toronto issue.

    It also may be worth considering a licence effect and having no relegation for next season to ensure SL is stable. Whoever comes in at this late stage it will be tough for them to compete given the differences in salary caps between SL and the Championship.
    Aye, ok. And maybe my hair will grow again too.

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    [QUOTE=parrsaint;804920]
    Quote Originally Posted by mufcsaint View Post
    Spot on play each other home and away and scrap magic and the lopp fixtures[/QUOTE
    Absolutely! I'm not sure how you decide how the new teams are included. I'd still go with Toulouse and another two teams to make up the 14 but there would need to be due diligence and some form of licensing system as has already been suggested by others. I'd also scrap relegation for the time being for two or three seasons for stability.
    I agree that we need a license system and remove relegation for three years. If they are already committed to 12 teams I hope they would upgrade to 14 teams after next season also by license not automatic promotion. Its a missed opportunity to stay at 12 in my opinion. There are several teams who could compete effectively in the bottom half of super league without relegation to worry about for three years or even longer. Expand often that period by moving to a licensed super league of 16 teams if need be which is the ideal number for me.

    Inevitably the gap between super league and minor leagues will grow anyway. Keep all super league teams as professional or at least semi professional while the amateur leagues grow. I think some sort of semi professionalism is likely to grow anyway

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    Remember when we last had 14? Hetherington argued that an increase of 2 teams meant it was only logical to increase the play offs from Top 6 to Top 8, wherein we then had the 3 most diluted regular seasons I can ever remember. We need to limit the play off format to 6 at the most.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Remember when we last had 14? Hetherington argued that an increase of 2 teams meant it was only logical to increase the play offs from Top 6 to Top 8, wherein we then had the 3 most diluted regular seasons I can ever remember. We need to limit the play off format to 6 at the most.
    I agree. 14 teams means 26 regular season games. Maybe keep magic weekend and a top five playoff. No need for loop fixtures. Maybe reboot the challenge cup with SL teams coming in at the round of 32 teams with the winners forming the fifth team in the end of season playoff

    I think we need to renew the whole thing. Its getting stale

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    Given the players Toulouse have been signing Im wondering if they already know that theyre in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Remember when we last had 14? Hetherington argued that an increase of 2 teams meant it was only logical to increase the play offs from Top 6 to Top 8, wherein we then had the 3 most diluted regular seasons I can ever remember. We need to limit the play off format to 6 at the most.
    Absolutely, and that's something that a lot of people have probably forgotten about when clambering for 14. The top 8 play-offs were utterly dreadful.

    12 is enough, and for me, 23 games would be enough, but I can't see the clubs buying into that one.

    I agree with Blobby that there needs to be a one year postponement of relegation. The climate isn't right for any team elevated to Super League to be able to stick around beyond that year, so they need to almost write off the first season and build for a second.

    How we move forward on a P&R issue in future is an issue. I think most of us would be a fan of it under normal circumstances, but I'm starting to see the time come when every team that comes up will go straight back down again. Contrary to myth, this hasn't been the case at all over the years, but the gulf is now too big, and the only biggish clubs outside of Super League now perenially seem in financial strife.

    I've always been an advocate of a twenty team Super League consisting of two divisions. With both tiers afforded equal status in terms of TV and money, you could have a two-up, two down system between the divisions that would not impact financially on the clubs. This would enable all to grow organically and nobody would need to break their banks to get promoted or stay up. Opportunities to go up would be plentiful and so missing out one year does not mean financial disaster. This keeps excitement in the game, but takes away the fear that goes with it.

    In reality, many of the Championship and League One clubs have no ambition of being in Super League, yet they still play teams that do have real ambition. They get in the way. Those such as Batley, Dewsbury and Sheffield, who have openly declared that they wouldn't wish to be promoted would be excluded in favour of twenty clubs with ambition. Those with no aspirations of Super League play in an effective Third Division, whereupon if they change their minds, they can apply for a Super League franchise along with any new clubs.

    Based upon current standings and my belief on who are the clubs with ambition to be part of the elite, I could easily narrow that to the following:-

    TIER 1 - Castleford, Catalans, Huddersfield, Hull FC, Leeds, Salford, St. Helens, Wakefield, Warrington, Wigan
    TIER 2 - Bradford, Featherstone, Halifax, Hull KR, Leigh, London, Newcastle, Toulouse, Widnes, York

    It all makes sense to me, but unfortunately the elite clubs are far to selfish to agree a deal that cuts another eight clubs into their share of the pie.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Remember when we last had 14? Hetherington argued that an increase of 2 teams meant it was only logical to increase the play offs from Top 6 to Top 8, wherein we then had the 3 most diluted regular seasons I can ever remember. We need to limit the play off format to 6 at the most.
    Definitely or better still leave it as a top five play off

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