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    Default Toronto - bye-bye RL expansion

    Clubs apparently voted 8-4 (1 abstention) against re-admitting Toronto.

    Don't know which clubs voted which way, but I can guess.

    Same old parochial attitudes setting the sport back. Been this way for as long as I can remember. When I was growing up, the RFL and BARLA were more or less at war. No way for the sport to be run.

    I can't see RL getting a foothold now in Canada (which was the whole point of the Wolfpack), Never mind, we'll stick to a handful of clubs getting decent a following, padded out by ••••ant clubs struggling to get 3/4,000 fans in SL, with a long list of shitsville clubs making up the lower-tier numbers whilst constantly blaming everyone but themselves for only getting a few hundred fans each game.

    The irony is seeing the same people that bleat about protecting these bring-nothing-to-the-party clubs, whining about rubbish sponsorship deals, and never seeing the connection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Clubs apparently voted 8-4 (1 abstention) against re-admitting Toronto.

    Don't know which clubs voted which way, but I can guess.

    Same old parochial attitudes setting the sport back. Been this way for as long as I can remember. When I was growing up, the RFL and BARLA were more or less at war. No way for the sport to be run.

    I can't see RL getting a foothold now in Canada (which was the whole point of the Wolfpack), Never mind, we'll stick to a handful of clubs getting decent a following, padded out by ••••ant clubs struggling to get 3/4,000 fans in SL, with a long list of shitsville clubs making up the lower-tier numbers whilst constantly blaming everyone but themselves for only getting a few hundred fans each game.

    The irony is seeing the same people that bleat about protecting these bring-nothing-to-the-party clubs, whining about rubbish sponsorship deals, and never seeing the connection.
    The 4 teams to keep Toronto in were Saints, Leeds, Catalan & R.L.F.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Tom Vol View Post
    The 4 teams to keep Toronto in were Saints, Leeds, Catalan & R.L.F.C.

    Interesting. I'd have thought Wanky would have supported it, and Leeds opposed. Who are RLFC?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Interesting. I'd have thought Wanky would have supported it, and Leeds opposed. Who are RLFC?
    It’s the RFL he means.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    It’s the RFL he means.
    Thanks.

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    Seems that one of the reasons against them being voted back in is a lack of a proof of funds, which begs two questions, one - how did we vote for them to come back without this crucial bit of information and two - why would they win a vote to come back in without such information? It’s a pretty vital bit of a bid, I would imagine.
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    I'm fairly certain what county most of these clubs will be from.

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    Whilst everyone is quick to point blame at the Super League clubs, there needs to be a question asked why clubs that previously supported the Toronto cause, have not done. Nobody has seen the business plan. Nobody has seen the reasoning, so can we make judgement on this without seeing the cases the clubs have been presented with?

    Quite frankly, it was never going to be sustainable, having a team from so far away playing in our competition. Covid has clearly finished it off (and even if they'd have been voted back in, they wouldn't have been playing any games next year in Toronto), but I never really expected the venture to last more than a few years. It's merely proven what most of us have always known. Regional sports are destined to stay regional. There simply is no precedent for mass expansion of any regional sport outside of the late 1800s.

    Toronto Wolfpack was a fad. The only way that it could have ever been a long term sustainable entity was in a competition within its own continent. Ottawa and New York needed to be the first of many, and I don't think there was ever much hope beyond the usual dreams from those who live in a world separate from reality.

    Rugby League has tried to expand on so many occasions, but the people in this country are resistant to it, and those elsewhere simply uninterested. I know plenty who have been to Toronto and have suggested the whole thing was rather surreal, with many people there for a free craic, not even looking in the direction of the pitch most of the time. Expansion isn't ever going to happen. That ship sailed away and sank with the Titanic.

    Of course, I feel sorry for the Toronto fans who bought into it, but anyone with foresight could see that it was a project that was always doomed to failure, just like all the others were before.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    Whilst everyone is quick to point blame at the Super League clubs, there needs to be a question asked why clubs that previously supported the Toronto cause, have not done. Nobody has seen the business plan. Nobody has seen the reasoning, so can we make judgement on this without seeing the cases the clubs have been presented with?

    Quite frankly, it was never going to be sustainable, having a team from so far away playing in our competition. Covid has clearly finished it off (and even if they'd have been voted back in, they wouldn't have been playing any games next year in Toronto), but I never really expected the venture to last more than a few years. It's merely proven what most of us have always known. Regional sports are destined to stay regional. There simply is no precedent for mass expansion of any regional sport outside of the late 1800s.

    Toronto Wolfpack was a fad. The only way that it could have ever been a long term sustainable entity was in a competition within its own continent. Ottawa and New York needed to be the first of many, and I don't think there was ever much hope beyond the usual dreams from those who live in a world separate from reality.

    Rugby League has tried to expand on so many occasions, but the people in this country are resistant to it, and those elsewhere simply uninterested. I know plenty who have been to Toronto and have suggested the whole thing was rather surreal, with many people there for a free craic, not even looking in the direction of the pitch most of the time. Expansion isn't ever going to happen. That ship sailed away and sank with the Titanic.

    Of course, I feel sorry for the Toronto fans who bought into it, but anyone with foresight could see that it was a project that was always doomed to failure, just like all the others were before.
    I agree with this though. Myself, I think we need to be looking towards France that does at least have a RL culture and look towards strengthening Toulose (not with Paulo ) and then look towards the next promotion into the UK comps', Carcasonne maybe as it sits between Perpignan and Tolouse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    I agree with this though. Myself, I think we need to be looking towards France that does at least have a RL culture and look towards strengthening Toulose (not with Paulo ) and then look towards the next promotion into the UK comps', Carcasonne maybe as it sits between Perpignan and Tolouse.
    Fully agree with this they have signed Paulo and Peyroux, so are obviously strengthening, without doing a stupid SBW. Lots of teams around that area playing in French leagues. Another SL team would probably promote growth in an area where RL is already popular. It allows expansion without needing to take a week to watch an away game. The negative is we would still get no away fans at most games in the UK.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    Fully agree with this they have signed Paulo and Peyroux, so are obviously strengthening, without doing a stupid SBW. Lots of teams around that area playing in French leagues. Another SL team would probably promote growth in an area where RL is already popular. It allows expansion without needing to take a week to watch an away game. The negative is we would still get no away fans at most games in the UK.
    I hope that they fill the 12 spot with either Toulouse or York. My preference is Toulouse due to it being in traditional RL area ( North Yorkshire isn’t really RL it is more associated with gamekeepers illegally killing of birds of prey)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    I hope that they fill the 12 spot with either Toulouse or York. My preference is Toulouse due to it being in traditional RL area ( North Yorkshire isn’t really RL it is more associated with gamekeepers illegally killing of birds of prey)
    Too early for York. Last year was their first season back in the championship since 2013 and they did very well but the club isn’t ready to make the next step up yet. RL is on the rise in the area now, the club doing excellent work with the community to sponsor the setup of new clubs in places like Harrogate. York are a club on the up and with a nice new stadium to move into as well. Give them a chance and I think they’d earn their way into super league over the next few seasons. Toulouse would be the logical choice to replace Toronto.

    Incidentally how will this decision affect Ottawa Aces? Due to join league 1 in 2021.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    Whilst everyone is quick to point blame at the Super League clubs, there needs to be a question asked why clubs that previously supported the Toronto cause, have not done. Nobody has seen the business plan. Nobody has seen the reasoning, so can we make judgement on this without seeing the cases the clubs have been presented with?

    Quite frankly, it was never going to be sustainable, having a team from so far away playing in our competition. Covid has clearly finished it off (and even if they'd have been voted back in, they wouldn't have been playing any games next year in Toronto), but I never really expected the venture to last more than a few years. It's merely proven what most of us have always known. Regional sports are destined to stay regional. There simply is no precedent for mass expansion of any regional sport outside of the late 1800s.

    Toronto Wolfpack was a fad. The only way that it could have ever been a long term sustainable entity was in a competition within its own continent. Ottawa and New York needed to be the first of many, and I don't think there was ever much hope beyond the usual dreams from those who live in a world separate from reality.

    Rugby League has tried to expand on so many occasions, but the people in this country are resistant to it, and those elsewhere simply uninterested. I know plenty who have been to Toronto and have suggested the whole thing was rather surreal, with many people there for a free craic, not even looking in the direction of the pitch most of the time. Expansion isn't ever going to happen. That ship sailed away and sank with the Titanic.

    Of course, I feel sorry for the Toronto fans who bought into it, but anyone with foresight could see that it was a project that was always doomed to failure, just like all the others were before.
    It's inward thinking like this that will see Rugby League back as a semi-pro sport by the end of this TV deal. In reality the sport needs to change. It needs to remove the clubs from positions of power and establish a proper and competent board. The sport needs to attract investment and not just rely on the Sky deal. If Sky find a half decent new sport to replace Super League, I'd suggest we won't get a TV deal of any kind now. If Union move to summer and Sky get that deal, SL is finished.

    Toronto gave the competition access to a huge sporting market. If we'd built that and added Ottawa and New York successfully we could have seen serious money coming on board.

    But as ever, it's been stopped by tinpot clubs like Wakefield, Cas, Hull KR and Salford. None of which would pass any financial interrogation or due diligence. If Super League asked any of those clubs to 'prove' they had the finances to complete next season and a business plan for their future they'd all fail spectacularly. Why are clubs like that with little or no future dictating the future direction of the sport?

    If rejecting Toronto based on geography was part of a solid plan from Super League I could understand it. If they believe North America could be successful but not in unison with Super League and were going to focus expansion on France and Spain, that's great. But it's not, there simply is no plan and being honest there is no future for the sport either (Other than semi-pro played in front of 3-4,000 in rotten fallen down stadiums).

    All those who voted no cared about was their share of the 1/12th of the TV deal that would have gone to Toronto. THAT is the only thing that has caused the no vote. The business plans might not be watertight, but you're not telling me the likes of Wakefield and Salford have any right to cast doubt on them. I'd be amazed if they were even suitably professional to be able to judge it properly. All they care about is their slice of the TV deal being maximised. They don't realise that without Toronoto or expansion in general the TV deal and outside investment will never grow and they'll just continue to fight to protect their slice of a rapidly decreasing pie.

    It makes me wonder what will happen now? 11 team comp with Salford, Cas and Wakefield cancelling games all over the place as they'll run with 20 players and nothing else and express dismay at actually having to play matches? Or will they allow a 12th team in? I doubt they will now. If they did, unless it was York or Toulouse or London, what possible benefit would there be? Bringing Fetherstone or Leigh in would bring what exactly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    It's inward thinking like this that will see Rugby League back as a semi-pro sport by the end of this TV deal. In reality the sport needs to change. It needs to remove the clubs from positions of power and establish a proper and competent board. The sport needs to attract investment and not just rely on the Sky deal. If Sky find a half decent new sport to replace Super League, I'd suggest we won't get a TV deal of any kind now. If Union move to summer and Sky get that deal, SL is finished.

    Toronto gave the competition access to a huge sporting market. If we'd built that and added Ottawa and New York successfully we could have seen serious money coming on board.

    But as ever, it's been stopped by tinpot clubs like Wakefield, Cas, Hull KR and Salford. None of which would pass any financial interrogation or due diligence. If Super League asked any of those clubs to 'prove' they had the finances to complete next season and a business plan for their future they'd all fail spectacularly. Why are clubs like that with little or no future dictating the future direction of the sport?

    If rejecting Toronto based on geography was part of a solid plan from Super League I could understand it. If they believe North America could be successful but not in unison with Super League and were going to focus expansion on France and Spain, that's great. But it's not, there simply is no plan and being honest there is no future for the sport either (Other than semi-pro played in front of 3-4,000 in rotten fallen down stadiums).

    All those who voted no cared about was their share of the 1/12th of the TV deal that would have gone to Toronto. THAT is the only thing that has caused the no vote. The business plans might not be watertight, but you're not telling me the likes of Wakefield and Salford have any right to cast doubt on them. I'd be amazed if they were even suitably professional to be able to judge it properly. All they care about is their slice of the TV deal being maximised. They don't realise that without Toronoto or expansion in general the TV deal and outside investment will never grow and they'll just continue to fight to protect their slice of a rapidly decreasing pie.

    It makes me wonder what will happen now? 11 team comp with Salford, Cas and Wakefield cancelling games all over the place as they'll run with 20 players and nothing else and express dismay at actually having to play matches? Or will they allow a 12th team in? I doubt they will now. If they did, unless it was York or Toulouse or London, what possible benefit would there be? Bringing Fetherstone or Leigh in would bring what exactly?
    Is it “inward thinking” or is it more likely a simple dose of realism.

    Optimism is fine, but when optimism is replaced by blind optimism despite the facts of 125 years flying in the face of it, then you’ve gone beyond the point of faith into delusion.

    Rugby League is a regional sport with a niche audience. The sport is actually played out at a fraction of the entertainment level that it once was. It was much more watchable for a neutral in 1996, when broken play allowed exciting passages of play to make for a much more exciting watch for a neutrall than the current Super League mantra of running at each other as fast as possible in order to break a wall down. If we couldn’t sustain clubs out of the heartland when the sport was at its most exciting, then it’s got sod all chance now in an era that its no more entertaining to watch in this country than Union.

    In Australia, they couldn’t make clubs last in Perth or Adelaide, despite their game being light years ahead of us on and off the pitch. Melbourne is a wonderful success in terms of its team, but even after twenty years at the top of the tree, they still have the feel of aliens in a city that still isn’t mad keen on the sport.

    Toronto were never going to be sustainable. Certainly not in a British competition. That is not the fault of the RFL. There was no foundation. It was merely a British club planted on Canadian soil to give the game some credence. It was a fad and all fads fizzle out.

    It doesn’t matter whether you think this attitude is all wrong. It’s simple logistics and mathematics. It’s a simple study of human behaviour. If the clubs hadn’t voted them out this time, they’d have very shortly gone bump of their own accord. Like every single attempt to expand Rugby League in the past, it was doomed to failure.

    The problem with a lot of Rugby League supporters is that they have a vastly over-inflated opinion of the merits of their own sport. A lot cannot understand why it’s not universal. They quote the “greatest game” as if it’s a fact rather than an opinion. They believe that the only reason it’s not watched more than football or Union is purely down to poor marketing and sport leadership. However, in truth, the game before the 1970s was largely dull as ditch water and the game since 2005, in this country at least, has been little better. It had a window when it was a truly wonderful sport to watch, but that window has gone. That was the time for expansion.

    I just don’t see for the life of me how this game is in a position to attract all those extra supporters, and let’s remember that Toronto’s crowds have been largely based around free tickets. Most of the crowd seemed to just stand around drinking, eating and chatting, whilst not even looking at the pitch. They treated it like a gala or village fete. The number of paying supporters they had was not increasing. What’s more, a likely 30 month gap between home games because of Covid, even if they had been allowed back into next year’s competition, would likely have lost many to the game anyway. And let’s not forget that Toronto couldn’t even play a home game for the first three months of the season anyway. The whole thing was just not practical.

    If Rugby League wants to set up from grass roots level in Canada, then great, but I’ll ask you this now. If Toronto has played its last game, will any of their supporters be rushing to set up the amateur game there, to start their own league, or will they more likely find another gala to go to on a Saturday night instead?

    Rugby League in another major country might be the way forward, but the whole methodology of this meant that it was always doomed to failure. It was just too far away. You could do it in Western Europe, because its on our doorstep, but our sport is way too small to sustain Trans-Atlantic competitions and it always will be. Not because of “inward thinkers” like me, but because that’s what the sport is and it quite simply is no longer entertaining enough to appeal to anyone bar its own existing fans. It’s on the field where the game has p’ssed on its future chips, not off it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    Is it “inward thinking” or is it more likely a simple dose of realism.

    Optimism is fine, but when optimism is replaced by blind optimism despite the facts of 125 years flying in the face of it, then you’ve gone beyond the point of faith into delusion.

    Rugby League is a regional sport with a niche audience. The sport is actually played out at a fraction of the entertainment level that it once was. It was much more watchable for a neutral in 1996, when broken play allowed exciting passages of play to make for a much more exciting watch for a neutrall than the current Super League mantra of running at each other as fast as possible in order to break a wall down. If we couldn’t sustain clubs out of the heartland when the sport was at its most exciting, then it’s got sod all chance now in an era that its no more entertaining to watch in this country than Union.

    In Australia, they couldn’t make clubs last in Perth or Adelaide, despite their game being light years ahead of us on and off the pitch. Melbourne is a wonderful success in terms of its team, but even after twenty years at the top of the tree, they still have the feel of aliens in a city that still isn’t mad keen on the sport.

    Toronto were never going to be sustainable. Certainly not in a British competition. That is not the fault of the RFL. There was no foundation. It was merely a British club planted on Canadian soil to give the game some credence. It was a fad and all fads fizzle out.

    It doesn’t matter whether you think this attitude is all wrong. It’s simple logistics and mathematics. It’s a simple study of human behaviour. If the clubs hadn’t voted them out this time, they’d have very shortly gone bump of their own accord. Like every single attempt to expand Rugby League in the past, it was doomed to failure.

    The problem with a lot of Rugby League supporters is that they have a vastly over-inflated opinion of the merits of their own sport. A lot cannot understand why it’s not universal. They quote the “greatest game” as if it’s a fact rather than an opinion. They believe that the only reason it’s not watched more than football or Union is purely down to poor marketing and sport leadership. However, in truth, the game before the 1970s was largely dull as ditch water and the game since 2005, in this country at least, has been little better. It had a window when it was a truly wonderful sport to watch, but that window has gone. That was the time for expansion.

    I just don’t see for the life of me how this game is in a position to attract all those extra supporters, and let’s remember that Toronto’s crowds have been largely based around free tickets. Most of the crowd seemed to just stand around drinking, eating and chatting, whilst not even looking at the pitch. They treated it like a gala or village fete. The number of paying supporters they had was not increasing. What’s more, a likely 30 month gap between home games because of Covid, even if they had been allowed back into next year’s competition, would likely have lost many to the game anyway. And let’s not forget that Toronto couldn’t even play a home game for the first three months of the season anyway. The whole thing was just not practical.

    If Rugby League wants to set up from grass roots level in Canada, then great, but I’ll ask you this now. If Toronto has played its last game, will any of their supporters be rushing to set up the amateur game there, to start their own league, or will they more likely find another gala to go to on a Saturday night instead?

    Rugby League in another major country might be the way forward, but the whole methodology of this meant that it was always doomed to failure. It was just too far away. You could do it in Western Europe, because its on our doorstep, but our sport is way too small to sustain Trans-Atlantic competitions and it always will be. Not because of “inward thinkers” like me, but because that’s what the sport is and it quite simply is no longer entertaining enough to appeal to anyone bar its own existing fans. It’s on the field where the game has p’ssed on its future chips, not off it.
    I have only watched games this year where Saints have been playing, I've lost interest in watching RL for the sake of it unfortunately, didn't even bother with CC Final. I've been brought up on it so if I along with many others are in the same boat then it's difficult for me to see a rosy future.


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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkieTalkie View Post
    I have only watched games this year where Saints have been playing, I've lost interest in watching RL for the sake of it unfortunately, didn't even bother with CC Final. I've been brought up on it so if I along with many others are in the same boat then it's difficult for me to see a rosy future.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    Is it “inward thinking” or is it more likely a simple dose of realism.

    Optimism is fine, but when optimism is replaced by blind optimism despite the facts of 125 years flying in the face of it, then you’ve gone beyond the point of faith into delusion.

    Rugby League is a regional sport with a niche audience. The sport is actually played out at a fraction of the entertainment level that it once was. It was much more watchable for a neutral in 1996, when broken play allowed exciting passages of play to make for a much more exciting watch for a neutrall than the current Super League mantra of running at each other as fast as possible in order to break a wall down. If we couldn’t sustain clubs out of the heartland when the sport was at its most exciting, then it’s got sod all chance now in an era that its no more entertaining to watch in this country than Union.

    In Australia, they couldn’t make clubs last in Perth or Adelaide, despite their game being light years ahead of us on and off the pitch. Melbourne is a wonderful success in terms of its team, but even after twenty years at the top of the tree, they still have the feel of aliens in a city that still isn’t mad keen on the sport.

    Toronto were never going to be sustainable. Certainly not in a British competition. That is not the fault of the RFL. There was no foundation. It was merely a British club planted on Canadian soil to give the game some credence. It was a fad and all fads fizzle out.

    It doesn’t matter whether you think this attitude is all wrong. It’s simple logistics and mathematics. It’s a simple study of human behaviour. If the clubs hadn’t voted them out this time, they’d have very shortly gone bump of their own accord. Like every single attempt to expand Rugby League in the past, it was doomed to failure.

    The problem with a lot of Rugby League supporters is that they have a vastly over-inflated opinion of the merits of their own sport. A lot cannot understand why it’s not universal. They quote the “greatest game” as if it’s a fact rather than an opinion. They believe that the only reason it’s not watched more than football or Union is purely down to poor marketing and sport leadership. However, in truth, the game before the 1970s was largely dull as ditch water and the game since 2005, in this country at least, has been little better. It had a window when it was a truly wonderful sport to watch, but that window has gone. That was the time for expansion.

    I just don’t see for the life of me how this game is in a position to attract all those extra supporters, and let’s remember that Toronto’s crowds have been largely based around free tickets. Most of the crowd seemed to just stand around drinking, eating and chatting, whilst not even looking at the pitch. They treated it like a gala or village fete. The number of paying supporters they had was not increasing. What’s more, a likely 30 month gap between home games because of Covid, even if they had been allowed back into next year’s competition, would likely have lost many to the game anyway. And let’s not forget that Toronto couldn’t even play a home game for the first three months of the season anyway. The whole thing was just not practical.

    If Rugby League wants to set up from grass roots level in Canada, then great, but I’ll ask you this now. If Toronto has played its last game, will any of their supporters be rushing to set up the amateur game there, to start their own league, or will they more likely find another gala to go to on a Saturday night instead?

    Rugby League in another major country might be the way forward, but the whole methodology of this meant that it was always doomed to failure. It was just too far away. You could do it in Western Europe, because its on our doorstep, but our sport is way too small to sustain Trans-Atlantic competitions and it always will be. Not because of “inward thinkers” like me, but because that’s what the sport is and it quite simply is no longer entertaining enough to appeal to anyone bar its own existing fans. It’s on the field where the game has p’ssed on its future chips, not off it.

    You make a very good set of arguments.

    I think my initial reaction was one borne of despair over the prospects for the game.

    The entertainment spectacle aspect of the sport is one we have long agreed on, and again it's impossible to argue against your point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    It's inward thinking like this that will see Rugby League back as a semi-pro sport by the end of this TV deal. In reality the sport needs to change. It needs to remove the clubs from positions of power and establish a proper and competent board. The sport needs to attract investment and not just rely on the Sky deal. If Sky find a half decent new sport to replace Super League, I'd suggest we won't get a TV deal of any kind now. If Union move to summer and Sky get that deal, SL is finished.

    Toronto gave the competition access to a huge sporting market. If we'd built that and added Ottawa and New York successfully we could have seen serious money coming on board.

    But as ever, it's been stopped by tinpot clubs like Wakefield, Cas, Hull KR and Salford. None of which would pass any financial interrogation or due diligence. If Super League asked any of those clubs to 'prove' they had the finances to complete next season and a business plan for their future they'd all fail spectacularly. Why are clubs like that with little or no future dictating the future direction of the sport?

    If rejecting Toronto based on geography was part of a solid plan from Super League I could understand it. If they believe North America could be successful but not in unison with Super League and were going to focus expansion on France and Spain, that's great. But it's not, there simply is no plan and being honest there is no future for the sport either (Other than semi-pro played in front of 3-4,000 in rotten fallen down stadiums).

    All those who voted no cared about was their share of the 1/12th of the TV deal that would have gone to Toronto. THAT is the only thing that has caused the no vote. The business plans might not be watertight, but you're not telling me the likes of Wakefield and Salford have any right to cast doubt on them. I'd be amazed if they were even suitably professional to be able to judge it properly. All they care about is their slice of the TV deal being maximised. They don't realise that without Toronoto or expansion in general the TV deal and outside investment will never grow and they'll just continue to fight to protect their slice of a rapidly decreasing pie.

    It makes me wonder what will happen now? 11 team comp with Salford, Cas and Wakefield cancelling games all over the place as they'll run with 20 players and nothing else and express dismay at actually having to play matches? Or will they allow a 12th team in? I doubt they will now. If they did, unless it was York or Toulouse or London, what possible benefit would there be? Bringing Fetherstone or Leigh in would bring what exactly?
    Don'tworry, I'm sure there'll be a convincing argument to get New York rolling in to town.

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    I actually think York and Newcastle could benefit SL more in the medium term rather than the tried and failed Widnes, Leigh or Featherstone.

    Other than those Toulouse probably a decent choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    I actually think York and Newcastle could benefit SL more in the medium term rather than the tried and failed Widnes, Leigh or Featherstone.

    Other than those Toulouse probably a decent choice.
    Toulouse seems logical given it has links to rugby and would benefit the game both from an international point of view by hopefully developing the French team and adding a rivalry for Catalans.

    I’d rather this than stick a pin in a map of the world and behave like a spoilt child who can’t understand how that could possibly go wrong when it inevitably does.

    In fact lets try that now... The game needs a team in Bolivia and its the short sightedness of the likes of Wakefield, Cas etc holding it back. Sounds ridiculous doesn't it and in truth the Canadian franchise was as well.

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    Let Eddie Hearn take over. That's my opinion on anything rugby league

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGSaint View Post
    Let Eddie Hearn take over. That's my opinion on anything rugby league
    No. Their price is too high.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    No. Their price is too high.
    Also this is a team sport with different stakeholders to manage, not a bunch of fat lads chucking arrows in front of a bunch of ••••heads in London.
    Leave the Hearns to what they do best.

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    Toronto was always going to be a struggle in the way they tried it IMO. They would have been better letting RL grow organically in Canada with a long term approach. Instead, putting all the eggs in one basket, filling the one club with foreign players and linking the club to a foreign league was always going to be a risk. We always looked at it from the point of view of what Toronto could do for SL, and not what we could do for Canadian RL. A proper Canadian league at a lower level, with clubs building organically with local rivalries would have been the way to do it, but instead we went for the one club at the elite level approach with no real approach to building anything beyond that. So you end up with a boom or bust situation where you’re relying on the one artificial club to be everything, instead of system growing by itself and hopefully ending up with several clubs that can in time then join a bigger league.

    As a side issue, reports I read last week were saying Sky may only offer £28-30m per year for the new TV deal (down from £40m at present) so it may be that some SL clubs are now developing a ‘me first’ attitude to the immediate future. Keep the TV money for themselves, leave the lower leagues to crumble without any TV money and ditch any trans-Atlantic ideas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Clubs apparently voted 8-4 (1 abstention) against re-admitting Toronto.

    Don't know which clubs voted which way, but I can guess.

    Same old parochial attitudes setting the sport back. Been this way for as long as I can remember. When I was growing up, the RFL and BARLA were more or less at war. No way for the sport to be run.

    I can't see RL getting a foothold now in Canada (which was the whole point of the Wolfpack), Never mind, we'll stick to a handful of clubs getting decent a following, padded out by ••••ant clubs struggling to get 3/4,000 fans in SL, with a long list of shitsville clubs making up the lower-tier numbers whilst constantly blaming everyone but themselves for only getting a few hundred fans each game.

    The irony is seeing the same people that bleat about protecting these bring-nothing-to-the-party clubs, whining about rubbish sponsorship deals, and never seeing the connection.
    Let's be honest, if we are hoping the sport needs a Canadian team to survive and flourish then we must be in shittstreet. Noone was advocating a team in Canada was the bastion of growth before Perez came along so why should the be the be all and end all now?
    I was always sceptical about their inclusion; the sport of Rugby League is nowhere near ready for North American teams being in the League. You're moaning about small attendances but when has the sport ever had big ones in recent history? We can't even crack London never mind Canada and America!
    You could envision this type of stuff in NFL and soccer where the markets are much, much bigger but the Toronto set up was like Nike sponsoring a darts tournament in Thatto Heath - the two just aren't congruous in any way.

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