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Thread: Walmsley banned

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    Don't get me wrong I much preferred the rugby under Holbrook, but I remember many on here complaining that he only had a plan A. I think it was after a Warrington game that those views were particularly prevalent.
    If he managed the other points (where I'll add he wouldn't recognise a back line if it bit him) then many more might tolerate his PlanA as he's now winning but as I say it's with the best squad in the league unfortunately now without our main & perhaps only (?) real forward threat. Holbrook wasn't perfect of course not but it's not me comparing him. I simply made a quick list to stack up against another list made up of the things I'm seeing.


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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkieTalkie View Post
    In another world.....he inherited a Champion squad who strolled their way to the title & immediately changed the whole modus operandi, he introduced a single Plan A that he hasn't deviated from, his offering is not entertaining, he can't seem to manage a change within a game, he is ultra cautious (Leeds team), he is naive (Salford team & JW captain apparently), by end of Friday we could be 3rd in the table (see other thread).
    Lots of opinions, this is mine.


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    He inherited a Champion squad with plenty of availability problems pre lockdown, we lost our best attacking superleague prop to the NRL and we lost our best attacking superleague centre to injury. If everyone was expecting a free ride again in the same manner of last season then some are not realising the game is played differently across the board this season and we have been drawn into it. The opposition is targeting the pivotal players a lot more either by reducing their space or draining their energy levels, just look at Dodd on Monday night 39 tackles, Lomax has also been targeted in plenty of games this season to cut down his distribution.

    As just mentioned by others Holbrook struggled as well with a Plan A to Z when in reality there is no Plan A, Plan B, Plan C etc the game is about keeping momentum as long as possible and the ability to go back to the basics during the game to retain that momentum balance.

    For opinions or fickleness I think a lot will be riding on the Friday night game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    He inherited a Champion squad with plenty of availability problems pre lockdown, we lost our best attacking superleague prop to the NRL and we lost our best attacking superleague centre to injury. If everyone was expecting a free ride again in the same manner of last season then some are not realising the game is played differently across the board this season and we have been drawn into it. The opposition is targeting the pivotal players a lot more either by reducing their space or draining their energy levels, just look at Dodd on Monday night 39 tackles, Lomax has also been targeted in plenty of games this season to cut down his distribution.

    As just mentioned by others Holbrook struggled as well with a Plan A to Z when in reality there is no Plan A, Plan B, Plan C etc the game is about keeping momentum as long as possible and the ability to go back to the basics during the game to retain that momentum balance.

    For opinions or fickleness I think a lot will be riding on the Friday night game.
    Again I haven't mentioned Holbrook although fair to say he did inherit a crisis in terms of the playing side of the club. We each have our views and likely won't change them, well I won't anyway. We're a game away from winning or losing the LLS which is unfortunate given our superiority but he selected a full team for Leeds against kids when I amongst others suggested resting some for Salford yet he then played his own version of kids which was a gimme game lost unfortunately. It's as if he's unaware of the ramifications. I think it entirely reasonable for a coach to request from his staff a detailed analysis of the current & projected scenarios resulting from a number of potential results, from where he might have realised that his selections were ridiculous. Yes we lost due to some unfortunate circumstances but I'd rather not blame the kid, he sent them out with no guiding hand when all it needed was 2 or 3 seniors to control the game, he didn't do it. Now we might win on Friday or slip to 3rd. If this was any other business that I've worked in his feet wouldn't touch for leaving us in this perilous position. I wouldn't mind as much if his PlanA covered the whole team with some new plays but it seems to me there's only the forwards game getting attention while the backs are there to simply help in defence. I'm fed up with it all now and we might blame circumstances but then why have we not managed our way through this runt of a season better than we have now especially in the last few weeks while we're at the business end?


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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkieTalkie View Post
    Again I haven't mentioned Holbrook although fair to say he did inherit a crisis in terms of the playing side of the club. We each have our views and likely won't change them, well I won't anyway. We're a game away from winning or losing the LLS which is unfortunate given our superiority but he selected a full team for Leeds against kids when I amongst others suggested resting some for Salford yet he then played his own version of kids which was a gimme game lost unfortunately. It's as if he's unaware of the ramifications. I think it entirely reasonable for a coach to request from his staff a detailed analysis of the current & projected scenarios resulting from a number of potential results, from where he might have realised that his selections were ridiculous. Yes we lost due to some unfortunate circumstances but I'd rather not blame the kid, he sent them out with no guiding hand when all it needed was 2 or 3 seniors to control the game, he didn't do it. Now we might win on Friday or slip to 3rd. If this was any other business that I've worked in his feet wouldn't touch for leaving us in this perilous position. I wouldn't mind as much if his PlanA covered the whole team with some new plays but it seems to me there's only the forwards game getting attention while the backs are there to simply help in defence. I'm fed up with it all now and we might blame circumstances but then why have we not managed our way through this runt of a season better than we have now especially in the last few weeks while we're at the business end?


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    Let’s be honest - you just don’t like Woolf.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkieTalkie View Post
    Again I haven't mentioned Holbrook although fair to say he did inherit a crisis in terms of the playing side of the club. We each have our views and likely won't change them, well I won't anyway. We're a game away from winning or losing the LLS which is unfortunate given our superiority but he selected a full team for Leeds against kids when I amongst others suggested resting some for Salford yet he then played his own version of kids which was a gimme game lost unfortunately. It's as if he's unaware of the ramifications. I think it entirely reasonable for a coach to request from his staff a detailed analysis of the current & projected scenarios resulting from a number of potential results, from where he might have realised that his selections were ridiculous. Yes we lost due to some unfortunate circumstances but I'd rather not blame the kid, he sent them out with no guiding hand when all it needed was 2 or 3 seniors to control the game, he didn't do it. Now we might win on Friday or slip to 3rd. If this was any other business that I've worked in his feet wouldn't touch for leaving us in this perilous position. I wouldn't mind as much if his PlanA covered the whole team with some new plays but it seems to me there's only the forwards game getting attention while the backs are there to simply help in defence. I'm fed up with it all now and we might blame circumstances but then why have we not managed our way through this runt of a season better than we have now especially in the last few weeks while we're at the business end?


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    Yes I agree he should have had a couple more senior players for leadership for the Salford game, I should imagine Woolf was making the call that he was having to play 2 sets of 3 games in a week and the toll it was going to take on his players going into the play offs. I'm pretty sure if he got wind early that the regular fixtures were going to finish this weekend he would have gone full strength against Salford and put the kids on for the derby game, but that would have caused a dispute with Wigoon and the RFL.

    What we don't know is the importance of the LLS compared to being Superleague Champions by Woolf, maybe picking up the LLS on the way to a Grand Final is not the primary objective but being Superleague Champions is. I like most saints fans want us to win both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkieTalkie View Post
    Again I haven't mentioned Holbrook although fair to say he did inherit a crisis in terms of the playing side of the club. We each have our views and likely won't change them, well I won't anyway. We're a game away from winning or losing the LLS which is unfortunate given our superiority but he selected a full team for Leeds against kids when I amongst others suggested resting some for Salford yet he then played his own version of kids which was a gimme game lost unfortunately. It's as if he's unaware of the ramifications. I think it entirely reasonable for a coach to request from his staff a detailed analysis of the current & projected scenarios resulting from a number of potential results, from where he might have realised that his selections were ridiculous. Yes we lost due to some unfortunate circumstances but I'd rather not blame the kid, he sent them out with no guiding hand when all it needed was 2 or 3 seniors to control the game, he didn't do it. Now we might win on Friday or slip to 3rd. If this was any other business that I've worked in his feet wouldn't touch for leaving us in this perilous position. I wouldn't mind as much if his PlanA covered the whole team with some new plays but it seems to me there's only the forwards game getting attention while the backs are there to simply help in defence. I'm fed up with it all now and we might blame circumstances but then why have we not managed our way through this runt of a season better than we have now especially in the last few weeks while we're at the business end?


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    Whats the League Leaders Shield in the grand scheme of things, i cant think of anyone who would take that over a grand final win? A lot of this animus towards Woolf seems to come from how we played early season, when we had key players missing and a big focus on the World Club Challenge, as long as we finish in the playoffs whats the problem, its not likely that fans are going to be allowed in to watch either the playoffs or grand final?

    As for managing the season, we have lost one league game since restart and that was one we should have won with the team we put out, which probably would have been better with a senior back out there but there was experience in the team with Jammer, Walmsley, Peyroux and Paulo.

    Do we play the same attractive style of rugby we played under Holbrook, no, but since lockdown we have had close to a full team out and have dominated almost every game, playing a better game than what we did pre-lockdown, something that should be applauded rather than being crapped on by people who have made their mind up about Woolf after a bad period punctuated by the shambles against Cas. I think Woolf has acknowledged that what we played before lockdown wasnt right and has tweaked it to be effective, likely helped by people such as Wello, Roby and Jammer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsepho View Post
    Whats the League Leaders Shield in the grand scheme of things.
    £100,000

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulscnthorpe View Post
    £100,000
    I was thinking more about the prestige of it, it isnt thought of in the same way as the Challenge Cup or Grand Final, it is almost an afterthought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsepho View Post
    I was thinking more about the prestige of it, it isnt thought of in the same way as the Challenge Cup or Grand Final, it is almost an afterthought.
    You're right, and I think Saints are as guilty in the way that we've celebrated it in the past, last year we got the celebrations pretty much Spot on.

    Ironic really as it's the most difficult to win

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    If the season finishes early, will the £100,000 still be given to the league leaders? Given the anomalies of the season wouldn’t there be an argument for sharing the pot? Unless Sky have stipulated something else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    Let’s be honest - you just don’t like Woolf.
    that just about covers it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Yes I agree he should have had a couple more senior players for leadership for the Salford game, I should imagine Woolf was making the call that he was having to play 2 sets of 3 games in a week and the toll it was going to take on his players going into the play offs. I'm pretty sure if he got wind early that the regular fixtures were going to finish this weekend he would have gone full strength against Salford and put the kids on for the derby game, but that would have caused a dispute with Wigoon and the RFL.

    What we don't know is the importance of the LLS compared to being Superleague Champions by Woolf, maybe picking up the LLS on the way to a Grand Final is not the primary objective but being Superleague Champions is. I like most saints fans want us to win both.
    But with some nouse he could have gone with say 3/4 team for Leeds then 1/4 Salford if that makes sense what I'm saying then everyone without knocks on Friday. His senior players were Jammer after injury & Alex as a banning afterthought. He boxed himself into a corner and might well pay a heavy price and potentially lose the club £100k when it could have been won.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsepho View Post
    I was thinking more about the prestige of it, it isnt thought of in the same way as the Challenge Cup or Grand Final, it is almost an afterthought.
    But £100k this season will go a very long way more than in a normal season.


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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkieTalkie View Post
    Again I haven't mentioned Holbrook although fair to say he did inherit a crisis in terms of the playing side of the club. We each have our views and likely won't change them, well I won't anyway. We're a game away from winning or losing the LLS which is unfortunate given our superiority but he selected a full team for Leeds against kids when I amongst others suggested resting some for Salford yet he then played his own version of kids which was a gimme game lost unfortunately. It's as if he's unaware of the ramifications. I think it entirely reasonable for a coach to request from his staff a detailed analysis of the current & projected scenarios resulting from a number of potential results, from where he might have realised that his selections were ridiculous. Yes we lost due to some unfortunate circumstances but I'd rather not blame the kid, he sent them out with no guiding hand when all it needed was 2 or 3 seniors to control the game, he didn't do it. Now we might win on Friday or slip to 3rd. If this was any other business that I've worked in his feet wouldn't touch for leaving us in this perilous position. I wouldn't mind as much if his PlanA covered the whole team with some new plays but it seems to me there's only the forwards game getting attention while the backs are there to simply help in defence. I'm fed up with it all now and we might blame circumstances but then why have we not managed our way through this runt of a season better than we have now especially in the last few weeks while we're at the business end?


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    In an earlier response to you, I did mention Holbrook, but that was because you were saying Woolf took over a champion side, which he did and that was JH's team. I agree with quite a lot of what you say here in that his team selections have been naive, I posted on another thread, that if we had a couple of senior backs playing EG Coote and Lomax we would have won that Salford game. I can understand the focus on the WCC and the disrupted season, but some of the selections have been a bit bizarre. Right now if he left, I would like to see Watson get a go. But, I probably prefer Woolf to any other SL coach. Sometimes it's better the devil you know

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    In an earlier response to you, I did mention Holbrook, but that was because you were saying Woolf took over a champion side, which he did and that was JH's team. I agree with quite a lot of what you say here in that his team selections have been naive, I posted on another thread, that if we had a couple of senior backs playing EG Coote and Lomax we would have won that Salford game. I can understand the focus on the WCC and the disrupted season, but some of the selections have been a bit bizarre. Right now if he left, I would like to see Watson get a go. But, I probably prefer Woolf to any other SL coach. Sometimes it's better the devil you know
    I can't see him leaving in spite of what I think as there'll unlikely be anywhere for him to go. I'm getting fed up with it all tbf.


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