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Thread: Ian Watson

  1. #51
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk The Yellow Giraffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulscnthorpe View Post
    With regards to our playing style with Woolf vs Holbrook, he probably isn't anywhere near as expansive however it's probably worth noting that we've not played in the dry months this year - no games in half of March, April, May, June and July, where generally we're more expansive..

    We're setting up for the playoffs (whatever that looks like) where it'll be wet and windy
    Good point.
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  2. #52
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    Wow, listening to him got me excited. Imagine working for him. Fantastic the way he said are kids are so much better than Wires. I'd love him to be at saints

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    Quote Originally Posted by col81 View Post
    Wow, listening to him got me excited. Imagine working for him. Fantastic the way he said are kids are so much better than Wires. I'd love him to be at saints
    That exciting that the players actually playing for him managed to scrape a 2 point win against a team full of kids.

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    I think Woolfe is unfairly on a hiding to nothing. Heís had more injuries than Holbrook, heís had the lockdown and then playing in front of no fans.

    Despite that our defence is exceptional. Our line speed and aggression is way better than under Holbrook. Yes itís not exactly what the fans want but Wigan won numerous Grand Finals under Wane whose priority was defence over attack.

    Letís not forget that we only won one trophy under Holbrook, against a Salford side playing their first Final in donkeys years. Who knows what would have happened had we played Warrington in the Final.

    I donít know what people want sometimes, I get the entertainment factor but post lockdown weíve generally been good in attack too, perhaps not so much the last few weeks.

    From the clubs point of view, had we got Watson some fans would have argued we were getting a coach on the cheap and why werenít we getting a top Aussie. We get an Aussie and some say whatís the point as they donít stay. The club canít win at times.

    It seems quite churlish to pick so many faults with the coach when to other teams we are still seen as the benchmark.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    I think Woolfe is unfairly on a hiding to nothing. Heís had more injuries than Holbrook, heís had the lockdown and then playing in front of no fans.

    Despite that our defence is exceptional. Our line speed and aggression is way better than under Holbrook. Yes itís not exactly what the fans want but Wigan won numerous Grand Finals under Wane whose priority was defence over attack.

    Letís not forget that we only won one trophy under Holbrook, against a Salford side playing their first Final in donkeys years. Who knows what would have happened had we played Warrington in the Final.

    I donít know what people want sometimes, I get the entertainment factor but post lockdown weíve generally been good in attack too, perhaps not so much the last few weeks.

    From the clubs point of view, had we got Watson some fans would have argued we were getting a coach on the cheap and why werenít we getting a top Aussie. We get an Aussie and some say whatís the point as they donít stay. The club canít win at times.

    It seems quite churlish to pick so many faults with the coach when to other teams we are still seen as the benchmark.


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    Pretty much sums up my feelings on this. Woolf isn't going anywhere, Watson isn't coming in. If we'd have apppointed Watson I wouldn't have been disappointed but I wouldn't have expected him to turn us back into "the Entertainers" and still see no evidence that he would as his side sit 8th in the league with 6 league wins.





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    Quote Originally Posted by barry View Post
    Pretty much sums up my feelings on this. Woolf isn't going anywhere, Watson isn't coming in. If we'd have apppointed Watson I wouldn't have been disappointed but I wouldn't have expected him to turn us back into "the Entertainers" and still see no evidence that he would as his side sit 8th in the league with 6 league wins.

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    He’s working on the smallest budget in the league, loses his best players every season and still has took his team to two finals in two seasons. Salford being 8th is a ridiculous reason for not wanting Watson over Woolf.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I,m not totally convinced that Watson could be our man, also if Woolf engineers a win on Friday against the Goons he will be "flavour of the month". I remember Holbrook self diagnosed himself as a failure in his first full season and I think Woolf deserves a second season he has had too many external distractions this season.
    He does deserve a second season and sacking him would be nothing short of harsh but I think weíd be better off getting Watson before anyone else does because if it works out weíve got a coach for 5+ years. I can cope with Woolfs fairly boring rugby if it wins us a grand final but the thought of him p*ssing off as soon as a better job comes along doesnít excite me.

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    I think Watson is doing something similar to what Powell has done at Castleford over the last 5 years or so. Like Powell he has almost got them across the line but not quite.

    Watson needs to test himself at a bigger club now with Wigan being my favourites.

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    Learning All The Songs barry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintH517 View Post
    Heís working on the smallest budget in the league, loses his best players every season and still has took his team to two finals in two seasons. Salford being 8th is a ridiculous reason for not wanting Watson over Woolf.
    You're probsbly right but I'd suggest wanting anyone in the league over Woolf at the minute is as ridiculous considering our league winning streak prior to the Salford game. Last season was an anomaly for Salford. They finished 3rd and lost 12 games. Year before that they finished 11 losing 16 and winning 7 prior to the middle 8s. Wakefield finished 5th that year on resources similar to Salfords yet no one was banging on about Chris Chester replacing Holbrook. Salford did well to win 2 games to get to the CCF beating the 2 most inconsistant teams that you'd consider "good" and losing the final to the worst team they played.

    However I'd have no problem if Woolf left at the end of the season and we brought in Watson. I just don't think that if we did that we'd see the style of play change that significantly. Also we don't need Watson, we aren't at a Cunningham type crossroads, getting hammered at Widnes and needing desperate change. As Reacher said I also don't know what some Saints fans want. It is almost like we are that bored of being the best team in the league we just need to change things?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    I think Woolfe is unfairly on a hiding to nothing. He’s had more injuries than Holbrook, he’s had the lockdown and then playing in front of no fans.

    Despite that our defence is exceptional. Our line speed and aggression is way better than under Holbrook. Yes it’s not exactly what the fans want but Wigan won numerous Grand Finals under Wane whose priority was defence over attack.

    Let’s not forget that we only won one trophy under Holbrook, against a Salford side playing their first Final in donkeys years. Who knows what would have happened had we played Warrington in the Final.

    I don’t know what people want sometimes, I get the entertainment factor but post lockdown we’ve generally been good in attack too, perhaps not so much the last few weeks.

    From the clubs point of view, had we got Watson some fans would have argued we were getting a coach on the cheap and why weren’t we getting a top Aussie. We get an Aussie and some say what’s the point as they don’t stay. The club can’t win at times.

    It seems quite churlish to pick so many faults with the coach when to other teams we are still seen as the benchmark.


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    Woolf is a good coach. Doing a thoroughly decent job.

    But his go to style of play will lead to us coming unstuck in the play offs. Probably against Warrington whether it is lashing down or not. If their pack matches ours, which it will, we haven't got the craft late in sets near the line, nor a pinpoint kicking game to get us through.

    The defence is excellent but it's the lack of nous in attack at crucial times that is a glaring concern

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Woolf is a good coach. Doing a thoroughly decent job.

    But his go to style of play will lead to us coming unstuck in the play offs. Probably against Warrington whether it is lashing down or not. If their pack matches ours, which it will, we haven't got the craft late in sets near the line, nor a pinpoint kicking game to get us through.

    The defence is excellent but it's the lack of nous in attack at crucial times that is a glaring concern
    Holbrookís record against Wire was bad, with us looking clueless in attack in big games.

    At least Woolf had some mitigation against Wire in the cup in that we nearly snatched the game despite a lot of in game disruption and unfamiliar outside backs.

    I think we should wait for the playoffs before deciding that Woolf has doomed us to failure against the unbeatable Wolves (below us in the league and choked vs Salford in the cup and Cas in last years play-offs).


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    really is sorry Reacher's Avatar
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    Warrington are the worry. They have the blueprint to beat us and they are tailor made to do so. They are the only team that regularly hang in against us for the first 20-30 mins and then turn the screw.

    Our line speed and the energy we put into defence works well when we are on a roll however we are susceptible to offloads. Once they offload, it kills us and we canít react.

    Unless we change the way we play when we play them, they may well continue to beat us.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Woolf is a good coach. Doing a thoroughly decent job.

    But his go to style of play will lead to us coming unstuck in the play offs. Probably against Warrington whether it is lashing down or not. If their pack matches ours, which it will, we haven't got the craft late in sets near the line, nor a pinpoint kicking game to get us through.

    The defence is excellent but it's the lack of nous in attack at crucial times that is a glaring concern
    That's my worry. Well, not entirely actually, it's that we do have attacking options but he refuses to use them.

    Yes, we've had more injuries this season but even so we're still head and shoulders over most teams, and comfortably the best IMO. There's no reason to keep playing with the same style/players over and over unless of course you had half a mind on getting yourself noticed in the NRL. There's no knocking Woolfe's record but I don't see a problem questioning his style and motives, we'll be here a long time after him so it's only right we have concerns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    That's my worry. Well, not entirely actually, it's that we do have attacking options but he refuses to use them.

    Yes, we've had more injuries this season but even so we're still head and shoulders over most teams, and comfortably the best IMO. There's no reason to keep playing with the same style/players over and over unless of course you had half a mind on getting yourself noticed in the NRL. There's no knocking Woolfe's record but I don't see a problem questioning his style and motives, we'll be here a long time after him so it's only right we have concerns.
    We are head and shoulders above the rest . My concern is our consistency and what happens when we are matched . When teams like wire lift their game we seem to struggle with composure and lack that individual flare which is their but seeming not being allowed to use . A little robotic for me .

    I think we will struggle to win two , one off eliminated games on the bounce (semi and a final )

    This Wigan team we are facing on Friday is probably the worst Wigan team in a generation their pack is woeful however I am nervous as to the outcome particularly now have to deal with the loss of Al .

    I have defended Woolfe and I¬’m still sat on the fence as you have to take into consideration the situation we are in . Players and coaching staff are not immune to the challenges of the new norm and I have no doubt this affects all clubs negatively .

    I do , like you question and worry about his style. it¬’s a bit more than KC and luckily all the teams around us are that bit worse . How Wigan are second is an exemplar of the quality of this league .

    These fact that Coote has been virtually non existent this year is worrying Knowles has been given his orders which mainly consists of dummy runner and tackling , peyroux has seeming been out of flavour . As a consequence of his change of tacit we are struggling to maintain top spot and win one off games !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    Warrington are the worry. They have the blueprint to beat us and they are tailor made to do so. They are the only team that regularly hang in against us for the first 20-30 mins and then turn the screw.

    Our line speed and the energy we put into defence works well when we are on a roll however we are susceptible to offloads. Once they offload, it kills us and we canít react.

    This is totally right . Wire keep composed and simply ensure they tackle . They allow us to make meters in the early count and are happy to defend their line . Watch the CC final and the the recent CC game . tackle 1, 2,3 we make big meters 4 &5 wire are well organised we get nowhere . Wire focus massively on try line defence and not concerned with us charging up the middle . They suck us in to play in their 10/15 area : and defend for their lives . It works !


    Unless we change the way we play when we play them, they may well continue to beat us.


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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    Holbrookís record against Wire was bad, with us looking clueless in attack in big games.

    At least Woolf had some mitigation against Wire in the cup in that we nearly snatched the game despite a lot of in game disruption and unfamiliar outside backs.

    I think we should wait for the playoffs before deciding that Woolf has doomed us to failure against the unbeatable Wolves (below us in the league and choked vs Salford in the cup and Cas in last years play-offs).


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    You could say Woolf's game management is better suited to beating Warrington than the Holbrook version. Woolf has us playing tough under pressure, when Warrington play us they don't do it with flair its a very simple approach of matching us down the middle then have a very good efficient kicking game so that we are playing in the wrong half of the pitch.

    Post Lockdown I don't know where this comparison with Cunningham style of play is coning from in my opinion we are nothing like it, under Cunningham we was losing badly and winning badly. Out scoring stats and defensive stats are very much similar to last season and thats without the best prop and best centre of last season.

    Yes we do have the odd game when we are devoid of ideas and lose composure but this season we are tougher when we lose control to the opposition and respond to get us back into the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    I seen that earlier and thought the same, like he was already running through plays with Dodd in his head.
    Well if Watto honours his contract with Salford he will be ready for us for 2022

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    In The South Stand Ralph Fridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    Holbrook’s record against Wire was bad, with us looking clueless in attack in big games.

    At least Woolf had some mitigation against Wire in the cup in that we nearly snatched the game despite a lot of in game disruption and unfamiliar outside backs.

    I think we should wait for the playoffs before deciding that Woolf has doomed us to failure against the unbeatable Wolves (below us in the league and choked vs Salford in the cup and Cas in last years play-offs).


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    Yes if another team beats Warrington then we are in a much better spot. I am pretty confident that in a crunch game against them, we will lose.

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    I'm worried our lack of quality on the final play of the sets will cost us in big knock out games.

    hopefully someone else takes warrington out , they appear to have the wood over us in these fixtures at the moment

    Wigan seem to be able to beat them when it matters, I'd prefer to face them in a final then warrington I think our pack will bully theirs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Woolf is a good coach. Doing a thoroughly decent job.

    But his go to style of play will lead to us coming unstuck in the play offs. Probably against Warrington whether it is lashing down or not. If their pack matches ours, which it will, we haven't got the craft late in sets near the line, nor a pinpoint kicking game to get us through.

    The defence is excellent but it's the lack of nous in attack at crucial times that is a glaring concern
    This is exactly it made worse by as I see it nothing different ever coming from the backs, no moves, no set plays, lob kick on the last. It's as if nobody is working with them save for trying to make them better defenders. Now here come the people saying but we're top scorers etc etc but we have the best squad & many of the best players for a start. It would be difficult not to be in the top2 I'd suggest.

    I understand if you work for the club in any capacity then you are incentivised by contracts & bonus's so you do whatever you need to do to pay the mortgage. None of that affects us here and we're entitled to expect a little bit of entertainment more often that the odd 20 mins here and there. We have a solely defensively driven Australian coach in place I get that. I like to think we have a fan base that demands more than that, I want entertaining & thats what he clearly can't deliver & has no interest in doing so.

    We've won nothing yet by the way.


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    Well if we got rid of a coach that's top of the league with the comfortably best attack and best defence in league, I don't think we'd ever get another coach again

  23. #73
    really is sorry Reacher's Avatar
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    People also seemingly forgetting that Daniel Anderson was very defence orientated.

    Always remember Wellens telling me that heíd never worked under such a defensively drilled coach before.


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    In The South Stand Ralph Fridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    People also seemingly forgetting that Daniel Anderson was very defence orientated.

    Always remember Wellens telling me that he’d never worked under such a defensively drilled coach before.


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    And a completely dominant forward pack. Hull had a great pack at that time & it still wasn't anywhere near ours.

  25. #75
    In The South Stand Ralph Fridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulscnthorpe View Post
    Well if we got rid of a coach that's top of the league with the comfortably best attack and best defence in league, I don't think we'd ever get another coach again
    Agree fully. It would be farcical to do that but we need to have some ideas up our sleeve for the play offs attack wise

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