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    Default Lockdown

    Well folks pubs are shutting again. For those whose only outlet is to watch RL out of their homes it's gone. I can still go and eat in an Indian or Turkish Gaff and have 10 pints before 10 PM.

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    In The South Stand Jackbit's Avatar
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    After watching the northern region mayor's conference call it looks like the you know what will hit the fan next week. Steve Rotheram the Liverpool Metro mayor said that this area will go into Tier 3 lockdown from Wednesday next.

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    Is this definite? I only ask because I’m sat in Kieltys in Manchester as I type, and wondering if I can finish my pint?
    Can't stop the spirits when they need you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    Is this definite? I only ask because I’m sat in Kieltys in Manchester as I type, and wondering if I can finish my pint?
    You have plenty of time, get another one in. Burnham was not saying much as far as the GM area was concerned, so it's wait and see. But Rotherham was adament that that is what he had been told. Beers and bog roll time at the shops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackbit View Post
    You have plenty of time, get another one in. Burnham was not saying much as far as the GM area was concerned, so it's wait and see. But Rotherham was adament that that is what he had been told. Beers and bog roll time at the shops.
    I’ve drank it as quick as I can and gone to Atlas.

    Today being “Grand final” day I’m on my pilgrimage across deansgate onward to Old Trafford :-(
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    If we have another lockdown won't we simply end up in the same place we were in after the first one?


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    Heaven knows pal. They seem to be saying what is forced to close down, mainly pubs the poor sods working in them will only get two thirds of their 9 pounds an hour. Don't know how Sunak gave his supporters 80% in March.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackbit View Post
    After watching the northern region mayor's conference call it looks like the you know what will hit the fan next week. Steve Rotheram the Liverpool Metro mayor said that this area will go into Tier 3 lockdown from Wednesday next.
    The few pubs and club that I've been in since the last lockdown have done their absolute best to comply with all the conditions as have the vast majority of customers, I just hope that if St Helens figures improve we won't have to wait for the Liverpool City Centre figures to also improve because the mass testing of the students mean that won't be any time soon, probably a short reprieve in December, I really hope I'm wrong. That's the problem with our borough politicians deciding to link with Liverpool

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkieTalkie View Post
    If we have another lockdown won't we simply end up in the same place we were in after the first one?


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    Yes, we will. It'll just cripple the economy some more and make some more people unemployed and facing a very uncertain future.

    It's a daft situation. They'd be far better abandoning testing and releasing everything. Rather than blow so much money on furlough and testing, invest it in hospitals and have a Nightingale operation to deal with Covid patients in each area.

    Ruining the futures of so, so many isn't justifiable any more. People will die sure, but Covid will seem insignificant when in two years we have a 50% unemployment rate, daily riots and looting and widespread poverty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    Yes, we will. It'll just cripple the economy some more and make some more people unemployed and facing a very uncertain future.

    It's a daft situation. They'd be far better abandoning testing and releasing everything. Rather than blow so much money on furlough and testing, invest it in hospitals and have a Nightingale operation to deal with Covid patients in each area.

    Ruining the futures of so, so many isn't justifiable any more. People will die sure, but Covid will seem insignificant when in two years we have a 50% unemployment rate, daily riots and looting and widespread poverty.
    I agree. I thought the first lockdown was to buy time so that the NHS could cope, but no the first Lockdown was to set up the private companies that could exploit the public purse on the back of people dieing and loosing their jobs and livelyhoodd

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    Yes, we will. It'll just cripple the economy some more and make some more people unemployed and facing a very uncertain future.

    It's a daft situation. They'd be far better abandoning testing and releasing everything. Rather than blow so much money on furlough and testing, invest it in hospitals and have a Nightingale operation to deal with Covid patients in each area.

    Ruining the futures of so, so many isn't justifiable any more. People will die sure, but Covid will seem insignificant when in two years we have a 50% unemployment rate, daily riots and looting and widespread poverty.
    This is the last week PHE will seperately publish Covid numbers apparently, next week they're lumping flu & Covid numbers together, we should ask why? Maybe it's because they want to communicate a number to people to frighten them into doing something they normally wouldn't do voluntarily? We're being manipulated. We just need to let people get on with their lives while protecting the old and vulnerable.


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    https://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/news/...-young-people/

    Another great result of this, the question isn't money vs lives, the two are intrinsically linked, it's no coincidence that the countries with strong economies are the ones with better healthcare (either public or private)

    The fact is the NHS gets overrun every year, you just need to Google A&E waiting times for the last few years to see.

    The current whack a mole policy isn't working, there is seemingly no short term or long term exit strategy, just a whack a mole approach. Nothing we have done has had a massive impact on the spread of transmission, which is why compliance is so low.

    My worry is that people being laid off weeks before Christmas, are going to be absolutely desperate, what state is society going to be in then, if the restaurants aren't anywhere near capacity come December and the Christmas period, they simply won't reopen in January

    On a side note, we're still waiting on the recovery figures from covid.. depending on where you get your figures from, up to 5 million could have already had covid

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    I have not got many if any answers, but please keep an eye out for each other. Politically none of us on here are corrupt enough to know the endgame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulscnthorpe View Post
    https://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/news/...-young-people/

    Another great result of this, the question isn't money vs lives, the two are intrinsically linked, it's no coincidence that the countries with strong economies are the ones with better healthcare (either public or private)

    The fact is the NHS gets overrun every year, you just need to Google A&E waiting times for the last few years to see.

    The current whack a mole policy isn't working, there is seemingly no short term or long term exit strategy, just a whack a mole approach. Nothing we have done has had a massive impact on the spread of transmission, which is why compliance is so low.

    My worry is that people being laid off weeks before Christmas, are going to be absolutely desperate, what state is society going to be in then, if the restaurants aren't anywhere near capacity come December and the Christmas period, they simply won't reopen in January

    On a side note, we're still waiting on the recovery figures from covid.. depending on where you get your figures from, up to 5 million could have already had covid
    It's an interesting debate. Being self employed I'm obviously all for as much as possible staying open however if closing pubs and restaurants means it helps stop the spread then fair enough. My worry is that won't have any real effect as in almost every place I've been in all protocols are being adhered to. From what I've seen it's shops and specifically supermarkets where rules are constantly flouted, add to this it seems like a lot of young people (10-25) not wearing masks which as much as I hate I find really disrespectful. It also appears to me that this rise has occurred since the open of schools and universities. Now obviously education is important but if that's the real reason then don't bullshit us about it being something else. I drove past De La Salle on Alder Hey Rd at kicking out time and there were loads of kids all crowded together and loads now wearing masks. I also went for a pint in the Gerrard yesterday and had to sit outside as there was no room inside due to social distancing, that doesn't quite add up to me. To me it seems it's spread through young uns that don't really suffer, they go home and pass it to adults who spread it through general life (work, gym etc) and it ends up with the more vulnerable.

    I could be totally wrong of course but that makes sense to me. I'm also not going in for all this nonsense about the government taking away our civil liberties, they want us spending money as it generates money for them and stimulates the economy. That said, there has been mistakes made in what's unprecedented times although I do believe they've also got some things right. What's really annoying is it's all turned into a big political points scoring situation and then you get ••••ing idiots who point blank refuse to abide by rules.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulscnthorpe View Post
    https://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/news/...-young-people/

    Another great result of this, the question isn't money vs lives, the two are intrinsically linked, it's no coincidence that the countries with strong economies are the ones with better healthcare (either public or private)

    The fact is the NHS gets overrun every year, you just need to Google A&E waiting times for the last few years to see.

    The current whack a mole policy isn't working, there is seemingly no short term or long term exit strategy, just a whack a mole approach. Nothing we have done has had a massive impact on the spread of transmission, which is why compliance is so low.

    My worry is that people being laid off weeks before Christmas, are going to be absolutely desperate, what state is society going to be in then, if the restaurants aren't anywhere near capacity come December and the Christmas period, they simply won't reopen in January

    On a side note, we're still waiting on the recovery figures from covid.. depending on where you get your figures from, up to 5 million could have already had covid
    I know a family of 8, 3 generations living together, grown up kids no youngsters. All were tested together. 4 were positive inc 83 & 84 yo grandparents plus 2 more positive, 4 were negative. None had any symptoms. Work that one out for a virus that we're told is virulent.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    It's an interesting debate. Being self employed I'm obviously all for as much as possible staying open however if closing pubs and restaurants means it helps stop the spread then fair enough. My worry is that won't have any real effect as in almost every place I've been in all protocols are being adhered to. From what I've seen it's shops and specifically supermarkets where rules are constantly flouted, add to this it seems like a lot of young people (10-25) not wearing masks which as much as I hate I find really disrespectful. It also appears to me that this rise has occurred since the open of schools and universities. Now obviously education is important but if that's the real reason then don't bullshit us about it being something else. I drove past De La Salle on Alder Hey Rd at kicking out time and there were loads of kids all crowded together and loads now wearing masks. I also went for a pint in the Gerrard yesterday and had to sit outside as there was no room inside due to social distancing, that doesn't quite add up to me. To me it seems it's spread through young uns that don't really suffer, they go home and pass it to adults who spread it through general life (work, gym etc) and it ends up with the more vulnerable.

    I could be totally wrong of course but that makes sense to me. I'm also not going in for all this nonsense about the government taking away our civil liberties, they want us spending money as it generates money for them and stimulates the economy. That said, there has been mistakes made in what's unprecedented times although I do believe they've also got some things right. What's really annoying is it's all turned into a big political points scoring situation and then you get ••••ing idiots who point blank refuse to abide by rules.
    Read an interesting article recently. Says that the Gov is split on what to do, effectively herd vs lockdown. They were swaying towards no lockdowns and getting in some way back to normal while protecting those at risk. However the wearing of masks and general restrictions has gained so much support across the country that they were frightened of changing course as it would encourage mass resentment from the perceived increased risk and be blamed for cash over lives for example by the media so that they've now gone with path of least resistance which is lockdowns.


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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkieTalkie View Post
    Read an interesting article recently. Says that the Gov is split on what to do, effectively herd vs lockdown. They were swaying towards no lockdowns and getting in some way back to normal while protecting those at risk. However the wearing of masks and general restrictions has gained so much support across the country that they were frightened of changing course as it would encourage mass resentment from the perceived increased risk and be blamed for cash over lives for example by the media so that they've now gone with path of least resistance which is lockdowns.


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    I can believe that as they're generally a pretty spineless lot but that goes for almost all politicians whatever the party. I mean surely the approach needs to be fluid as we don't know a great deal about the virus but it needs someone with a backbone to stand up and say something along the lines of "well that's the situation we were in last week, that's now changed and on the best advise, we will now do X,Y & Z". I guess they have done to a certain extent but a lot of these rules have been contradictory, confusing and poorly advised IMO. I also think it could be policed better, there's lots of people out of work at the moment, get them out and get them giving people a kick up the arse to put their masks on/social distance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    I can believe that as they're generally a pretty spineless lot but that goes for almost all politicians whatever the party. I mean surely the approach needs to be fluid as we don't know a great deal about the virus but it needs someone with a backbone to stand up and say something along the lines of "well that's the situation we were in last week, that's now changed and on the best advise, we will now do X,Y & Z". I guess they have done to a certain extent but a lot of these rules have been contradictory, confusing and poorly advised IMO. I also think it could be policed better, there's lots of people out of work at the moment, get them out and get them giving people a kick up the arse to put their masks on/social distance.
    Spot on about a number of points, the MPs demanded a vote on the rule of six, and when they got the vote, they voted 287 vs 17 in favour.. the government can do what they want and nobody is questioning it, I've heard our two regional mayors demand another lockdown, then complain the financial package was insufficient..

    On the rules, since Cummings all good grace was lost with the government, most believed the government where doing their best on the science until that point. Now we've got different rules for different areas, people not realising we're a part of this mythical Liverpool City Region, so no wonder people don't realise.

    For what it's worth, I believe the previous measure in August was a happy medium, social distancing, wear masks, and a rule of six is probably a good balance that most will comply with

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    Yes, we will. It'll just cripple the economy some more and make some more people unemployed and facing a very uncertain future.

    It's a daft situation. They'd be far better abandoning testing and releasing everything. Rather than blow so much money on furlough and testing, invest it in hospitals and have a Nightingale operation to deal with Covid patients in each area.

    Ruining the futures of so, so many isn't justifiable any more. People will die sure, but Covid will seem insignificant when in two years we have a 50% unemployment rate, daily riots and looting and widespread poverty.
    So, in this scenario, where do we get the nurses and doctors who will be needed to staff the Nightingale hospitals in order to reduce the death rate? Who chooses who is to die? Do we abandon the diabetics of all ages? The overweight? Anyone over 70?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simeon Stylites View Post
    So, in this scenario, where do we get the nurses and doctors who will be needed to staff the Nightingale hospitals in order to reduce the death rate? Who chooses who is to die? Do we abandon the diabetics of all ages? The overweight? Anyone over 70?
    I sincerely hope not! That's a triple whammy for me, even though I walk about ten miles a day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    It's an interesting debate. Being self employed I'm obviously all for as much as possible staying open however if closing pubs and restaurants means it helps stop the spread then fair enough. My worry is that won't have any real effect as in almost every place I've been in all protocols are being adhered to. From what I've seen it's shops and specifically supermarkets where rules are constantly flouted, add to this it seems like a lot of young people (10-25) not wearing masks which as much as I hate I find really disrespectful. It also appears to me that this rise has occurred since the open of schools and universities. Now obviously education is important but if that's the real reason then don't bullshit us about it being something else. I drove past De La Salle on Alder Hey Rd at kicking out time and there were loads of kids all crowded together and loads now wearing masks. I also went for a pint in the Gerrard yesterday and had to sit outside as there was no room inside due to social distancing, that doesn't quite add up to me. To me it seems it's spread through young uns that don't really suffer, they go home and pass it to adults who spread it through general life (work, gym etc) and it ends up with the more vulnerable.

    I could be totally wrong of course but that makes sense to me. I'm also not going in for all this nonsense about the government taking away our civil liberties, they want us spending money as it generates money for them and stimulates the economy. That said, there has been mistakes made in what's unprecedented times although I do believe they've also got some things right. What's really annoying is it's all turned into a big political points scoring situation and then you get ••••ing idiots who point blank refuse to abide by rules.
    I work in a supermarket in Southport, and there the shoppers are being very good when it comes to wearing masks and keeping as much distance as possible. I would say well over 99.5% of people who should be wearing masks, do. I've even seen customers wearing both a mask and a lanyard saying they are exempt from wearing a mask. Shoppers in Maghull are also very compliant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woolyback View Post
    I sincerely hope not! That's a triple whammy for me, even though I walk about ten miles a day.
    My medical friends are furious about the idea that we might just abandon our attempts to suppress the virus. All of them say full release will cause tens of thousands to die prematurely; and they all point to the fact that suppression is possible. Look at New Zealand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simeon Stylites View Post
    My medical friends are furious about the idea that we might just abandon our attempts to suppress the virus. All of them say full release will cause tens of thousands to die prematurely; and they all point to the fact that suppression is possible. Look at New Zealand.
    If all we had to worry about was the virus then we could lock down till march until a vaccine may be ready..

    It's not as simple as that, there's much much more, the economy, education, mental health, other diseases, everything to consider.

    New Zealand is a unique case in the fact it's a final destination, nobody travels through New Zealand, and because it's so remote it isn't interconnected as the UK, or in fact all of Europe.

    Re your other point, the NHS makes decisions on a day to day basis who lives or dies, some treatments are not offered

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simeon Stylites View Post
    So, in this scenario, where do we get the nurses and doctors who will be needed to staff the Nightingale hospitals in order to reduce the death rate? Who chooses who is to die? Do we abandon the diabetics of all ages? The overweight? Anyone over 70?
    But consequence of another total lockdown will be we will abandon the cancer checks, the ECGs etc, thus allowing potentially curable conditions to become deadly. We saw that in the last lockdown, non Covid deaths where higher than normal.

    When the pubs and restaurants opened in july august the infection rate was rising very slowly and not concerning. The big jump came when schools and universities opened, so why close pubs, just because you can’t close eduction.

    People have been told how to minimise you chances of catching Covid, so just avoid places where social distancing is not possible avoid crowded inside spaces.

    What will another full lockdown achieve? Less Covid deaths probably , More non Covid deaths certainly Because that’s what happens last time. Add to that millions of people’s livelihoods destroyed.

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    These days a lot of tings are leaked to press etc just to judge people's response on social media so governments can way up what is politically acceptable.

    With no football or rugby crowds I guess pubs are the next most likely place where people are in close contact.

    I went to the pub on a few occasions after they opened and the one I went to was well managed, you had to have a table before you could order, standing and drinking wasn't allowed and serving at the bar was well spaced out . The pub in question has a slightly older clientele but some of the pics I've seen of youngsters in city centre pubs seem to have no safety measures in space.

    I hear different arguements from different people about which is the best way forward, some argue that without a vaccine a lockdown only delays the inevitable because as soon as you ease the measures the infection rate will bounce back up again, should we let the younger people who are not as high a risk carry on life as normal and us oldies use our common sense to avoid crowded places as much as poss.

    I'm semi-retired so it's easy for me to do a little bit of work from home and shop on line for food etc. but its awkward if your in a high risk group but still need to work.

    Another full lockdown will cripple the country for years to come and cost the next generations a fortune in taxes, but it would be political suicide for any government to sit back and do nothing.

    I don't think any group of politicians have got the answer to this problem.

    These local Mayors who are complaining are really just after more money, whatever the government offers they will still want more. Maybe the government should throw the ball back in their court, let the local mayors impose sanctions and lockdowns as they see fit then if it goes wrong it's their fault.

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