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Thread: Sean Long

  1. #126
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    KC tenure was dreadful really wasn't it?

    he signed awful players, put long in as defence coach and some of the nonsense he spoke was beyond belief

    Murphy was a v good coach at the start of his career but got less effective as he got older and the game seemed to pass him by

    Still two of the greatest to ever play for the saints and in murphys case arguably the greatest

  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    I agree with a lot of that. I don't think we should make generalisations based on KC's time in charge, because ultimately I think the problem with KC wasn't that he used to play for us or that he used to be a top player but that he just wasn't a very good coach: not a very clear or judicious communicator and, in terms of his tactics, risk averse to the point of being utterly self-defeating. Wellens strikes me as a much more intelligent person, a much better communicator, and is clearly well-respected in circles other than just at Saints.

    I have no problem with a former player becoming coach as long as there is a full and proper selection process and he shows himself to be the best candidate.
    Many have alluded to the idea that if KC had coached elsewhere and gained experience he may have been a better coach. I don't buy that. KCs biggest fault was that he simply did not learn. He seemed to disregard advice, bought unwisely, spoke out of turn insulting fans and served up awful rugby. Like I said, his biggest fault was he didn't learn. This may have been arrogance or just stupidity, who knows?

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prez View Post
    Many have alluded to the idea that if KC had coached elsewhere and gained experience he may have been a better coach. I don't buy that. KCs biggest fault was that he simply did not learn. He seemed to disregard advice, bought unwisely, spoke out of turn insulting fans and served up awful rugby. Like I said, his biggest fault was he didn't learn. This may have been arrogance or just stupidity, who knows?
    Certainly agree with that, I think saints fans were a bit tolerant at the time because of his inexperience, but rumours got through that he started to alienate players and had his favourites. When he started to explain in the media the loss of games he seem to blame everyone else but himself. The final nail in the coffin was when he showed that ignorance to the fans and I suppose McManus saw the "writing on the wall" at that point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Certainly agree with that, I think saints fans were a bit tolerant at the time because of his inexperience, but rumours got through that he started to alienate players and had his favourites. When he started to explain in the media the loss of games he seem to blame everyone else but himself. The final nail in the coffin was when he showed that ignorance to the fans and I suppose McManus saw the "writing on the wall" at that point.

    There were some established players who were stinking the place out with their performances, yet he'd always be singling them out for praise, whilst throwing young and inexperienced players under the bus.

    The annoying thing was that in his first handful of games, we played some really open, flowing rugby. After Brown's brand of boring, conservative rugby, it was a tonic. After the stuffing by the Bunnies, he seemed to revert to the Brown tactics, then took that boring, one-out, conservative rugby to new heights. I thought at the time that he was trying to keep his win percentage up to retain his job, and when McManus extended his contract I thought it could be a masterstroke that gave Cunningham the confidence to again play a more adventurous game, but it had the opposite effect. This all compounded by him developing a bunker mentality when criticised.

    With hindsight, his biggest flaw was not being able to see the wider picture, and instead focusing on a really narrow objective. To be successful and adored in the eyes of fans, a Saints coach needs to have his teams playing attacking rugby (that doesn't mean at the expense of defence), get us winning silverware, and be open and affable with fans. Cunningham fell down on all three.

  5. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    There were some established players who were stinking the place out with their performances, yet he'd always be singling them out for praise, whilst throwing young and inexperienced players under the bus.

    The annoying thing was that in his first handful of games, we played some really open, flowing rugby. After Brown's brand of boring, conservative rugby, it was a tonic. After the stuffing by the Bunnies, he seemed to revert to the Brown tactics, then took that boring, one-out, conservative rugby to new heights. I thought at the time that he was trying to keep his win percentage up to retain his job, and when McManus extended his contract I thought it could be a masterstroke that gave Cunningham the confidence to again play a more adventurous game, but it had the opposite effect. This all compounded by him developing a bunker mentality when criticised.

    With hindsight, his biggest flaw was not being able to see the wider picture, and instead focusing on a really narrow objective. To be successful and adored in the eyes of fans, a Saints coach needs to have his teams playing attacking rugby (that doesn't mean at the expense of defence), get us winning silverware, and be open and affable with fans. Cunningham fell down on all three.
    The sad thing is you can sort of see what he was thinking. We had a pretty ropey backline at the time but a really strong pack, so there was some logic to playing a forward-based game. But he concentrated play down the middle of the pitch so much that teams knew they only had to defend the middle third of the pitch, and our zero offloads and no support play meant that defences could risk really aggressive rush defence. The result was that our pack, which was supposed to be our greatest strength, ended up getting battered every week by tightly compressed defences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prez View Post
    Many have alluded to the idea that if KC had coached elsewhere and gained experience he may have been a better coach. I don't buy that. KCs biggest fault was that he simply did not learn. He seemed to disregard advice, bought unwisely, spoke out of turn insulting fans and served up awful rugby. Like I said, his biggest fault was he didn't learn. This may have been arrogance or just stupidity, who knows?
    I always thought it was his arrogance. No knowledge whether he listened to advice or not, but the way anyone that criticised him was a Tub thumper or pack of sheep. Pure arrogance.

  7. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    The sad thing is you can sort of see what he was thinking. We had a pretty ropey backline at the time but a really strong pack, so there was some logic to playing a forward-based game. But he concentrated play down the middle of the pitch so much that teams knew they only had to defend the middle third of the pitch, and our zero offloads and no support play meant that defences could risk really aggressive rush defence. The result was that our pack, which was supposed to be our greatest strength, ended up getting battered every week by tightly compressed defences.
    I remember thinking at the time that I wouldn't be that arsed about the 3 drives and a kick routine if we were any good at it. I don't even think our pack was that great. Thompson and Walmsley were still developing into the players they are now, Amor was a starting prop. Savelio and Greenwood were never consistant enough. Peyroux was at Centre, Greg Richards was getting big minutes and LMS and Wilkin had little impact. Tasi? Vea??

    The way he treated Calvin Wellington was a disgrace. Young lad was well and truely thrown under the bus.

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    It hadn't occurred to me but League Express have just posted a piece on Twitter in which they've listed Richard Marshall as a potential candidate for the Widnes head coach job. It would make sense, as he has been a successful head coach at that level before. A possible permutation could be Marshall to Widnes and Long back here as assistant?

    Having said all that, the timing of Danny Orr's resignation from Cas suggests to me he might have landed the job.

  9. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    It hadn't occurred to me but League Express have just posted a piece on Twitter in which they've listed Richard Marshall as a potential candidate for the Widnes head coach job. It would make sense, as he has been a successful head coach at that level before. A possible permutation could be Marshall to Widnes and Long back here as assistant?

    Having said all that, the timing of Danny Orr's resignation from Cas suggests to me he might have landed the job.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if Woolf goes back to Aus after next season and we see Marshall take the head coach role with Wellens as his assistant. Previous head coach experience plus 3 years under Holbrook and Woolf would be a decent resume.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    It hadn't occurred to me but League Express have just posted a piece on Twitter in which they've listed Richard Marshall as a potential candidate for the Widnes head coach job. It would make sense, as he has been a successful head coach at that level before. A possible permutation could be Marshall to Widnes and Long back here as assistant?

    Having said all that, the timing of Danny Orr's resignation from Cas suggests to me he might have landed the job.
    Why would Long come back as Assistant, when he supposedly left because he wasn't being considered for Head Coach? Don't think it will happen, but I'd like to think it would.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    Why would Long come back as Assistant, when he supposedly left because he wasn't being considered for Head Coach? Don't think it will happen, but I'd like to think it would.
    The promises of the big gig after Woolf goes home?

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    The promises of the big gig after Woolf goes home?
    If it does happen I don't see many dissenters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    Why would Long come back as Assistant, when he supposedly left because he wasn't being considered for Head Coach? Don't think it will happen, but I'd like to think it would.
    It wouldn't make much sense if he was happy where he was, but who knows? Maybe he hasn't settled there.

  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    It wouldn't make much sense if he was happy where he was, but who knows? Maybe he hasn't settled there.
    You give us hope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    Why would Long come back as Assistant, when he supposedly left because he wasn't being considered for Head Coach? Don't think it will happen, but I'd like to think it would.
    Well he has just joined Leeds as an Assistant so who knows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A.O.88 View Post
    Well he has just joined Leeds as an Assistant so who knows.
    Maybe they pay more than us, or maybe he doesn't think Agar will last. I would like to think it is him gaining more experience then he can come back here.

  17. #142
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    He is my all time favourite saints player so I'm pretty gutted tbh. A club legend at Leeds of all clubs isn't right. All the best to him like. I just dont see the why he left saints. I heard he was told he'd never get the saints job, but since that hes been a coach at Harlequins and now assistant at Leeds.

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  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.O.88 View Post
    Well he has just joined Leeds as an Assistant so who knows.
    I think he has already been working for Leeds this season in an advisory role, today Sinfield has just made it official.

  19. #144
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    Hell be great coach there before the end of next season. Leeds will eventually lose patience with Agar. I know they won at Wembley but they are miles away from being champions.

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  20. #145
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    Sorry, head coach.

    (Bloody predictive text!)

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  21. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    Maybe they pay more than us, or maybe he doesn't think Agar will last. I would like to think it is him gaining more experience then he can come back here.
    Belgian when he left our place and moved to Harlequins he almost 'tripled' his income .
    roy litherland it's happened i told you it would

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by roy litherland View Post
    Belgian when he left our place and moved to Harlequins he almost 'tripled' his income .
    Hi Roy good to see you back.
    I doubt Leeds are matching what Quins were paying, so he must have some other motive for going there.

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