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Thread: 21 man squad v Wakefield

  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkieTalkie View Post
    May have missed him but has Wello actually been at the games?


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    I'm sure I saw him giving the team talk after Louie's try

  2. #252
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    Not a good game to watch. Wakefield played a decent game - good energy, defensive effort and kicking game... took their chances well. Saints we having an off day - quite a few errors - particularly handling and poor organising. We picked up second half and managed to scrape the win. We had an off day - they had a good one... We got the win and remain clear at the top of the league.

    The disruption to the season makes if difficult to judge. Woolf may not be everyones cup of tea (I'm unsure too) - but he was always going to have a tough job coming in after a very popular coach and a championship winning season. I think we can only really assess after a full season - maybe two.

    Likewise - we could probably do with some fresh players coming in - and we certainly need to build the team into the future with key players ageing and coming to the end of careers and some key positions need filling.

    I think this week it seemed we overplayed at times and lost composure. Let's see what the response is against Wakey next up.

  3. #253
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    Has all fallen apart since Hollbrook left, no? Shame like, but think you boys will bounce back. Every team struggles for a new identity when a successful coach leaves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by St. Christopher View Post
    Woolf may not be everyones cup of tea (I'm unsure too) - but he was always going to have a tough job coming in after a very popular coach and a championship winning season. I think we can only really assess after a full season - maybe two.
    The problem with that is we’ll be making our assessment after 2 years when the fella has already left. I would be amazed if he takes up the one year extension at the end of 2021 if an NRL job is going.

    I do agree with the theory that it’s tough to replace a title winning popular coach, but only in that it’s tough for the person involved. If he came in and continued what Holbrook had done we’d judge him favourably, much like Anderson was judged favourably despite inheriting Millward’s side and all the good stuff that came from that. But it’s difficult for the individual because he wants to be judged on his own merits, and wants to sell himself as having changed things or improved things. No coach really wants to feel he’s had his job done for him by his predecessor so they make subtle or unsubtle changes to prove to themselves that they can do things better.

    It’s a tough thing to do if you’re looking beyond the immediate job and hoping that you’ll catch the eye of an NRL club based on what you do in England, so you want to write your own CV and not be known as the fella who rode the coat tails of the one who came before you. The problem is that if you followed someone who got most things right there is the chance that changing stuff won’t make things better, but will make them worse. There isn’t much room above what we were under Holbrook, but a hell of a lot of room below it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevie H View Post
    Has all fallen apart since Hollbrook left, no? Shame like, but think you boys will bounce back. Every team struggles for a new identity when a successful coach leaves.
    The problem is that we had 3 seasons of increasingly awful rugby under Cunningham (and that on the back of 5 years of not-quite-as-bad uninspired drudgery, albeit with a freaky GF win under Brown).

    The Holbrook seasons (and that great mini-spell under the '3 wise men') were like a beacon of 'proper' rugby to us. Not quite Millward levels of insanity, but in comparison to the rugby played under Potter, Rush/Cunningham, Brown, Cunningham, it was like a drowning man being given oxygen.

    To now be faced with what looks like a return to bloody awful, turgid 'rugby for the purist' is too much to take.

    The annoying thing is that in our first two games back we put 34 on Catalans and 48 on Leeds (conceding just 6 points in total) and played open, flowing rugby. Then we went back to our 'primary aim is to win the arm wrestle' bore-fest tactics.

    To be honest, whilst it's good to have a very good defence, I care more about tries scored and the style of play. I'd much rather win 44-32 than 20-0.

    I also think that free-scoring games are also way more appealing to the casual viewer, too - which is vital to the financial health of our game, as it brings higher TV audiences and therefore revenue. I personally think the boring-down of the game in 2008 by allowing the slowing of the PTB and relaxing offside enforcement, along with the introduction of the 'wrestle' by Maguire & Brown, laid the platform for the decline in Sky SL viewing figures.

    Since then, I've lost almost all interest in the game beyond Saints.

  6. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    The problem is that we had 3 seasons of increasingly awful rugby under Cunningham (and that on the back of 5 years of not-quite-as-bad uninspired drudgery, albeit with a freaky GF win under Brown).

    The Holbrook seasons (and that great mini-spell under the '3 wise men') were like a beacon of 'proper' rugby to us. Not quite Millward levels of insanity, but in comparison to the rugby played under Potter, Rush/Cunningham, Brown, Cunningham, it was like a drowning man being given oxygen.

    To now be faced with what looks like a return to bloody awful, turgid 'rugby for the purist' is too much to take.

    The annoying thing is that in our first two games back we put 34 on Catalans and 48 on Leeds (conceding just 6 points in total) and played open, flowing rugby. Then we went back to our 'primary aim is to win the arm wrestle' bore-fest tactics.

    To be honest, whilst it's good to have a very good defence, I care more about tries scored and the style of play. I'd much rather win 44-32 than 20-0.

    I also think that free-scoring games are also way more appealing to the casual viewer, too - which is vital to the financial health of our game, as it brings higher TV audiences and therefore revenue. I personally think the boring-down of the game in 2008 by allowing the slowing of the PTB and relaxing offside enforcement, along with the introduction of the 'wrestle' by Maguire & Brown, laid the platform for the decline in Sky SL viewing figures.

    Since then, I've lost almost all interest in the game beyond Saints.
    I've said this before and I stand by it, I'm sure the game was slowed down as no other could live us. Maybe not the whole reason but it all fell very conveniently at the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    I've said this before and I stand by it, I'm sure the game was slowed down as no other could live us. Maybe not the whole reason but it all fell very conveniently at the time.
    The game has been slowing down these last couple of weeks as well, players feining injury, a 20 second rest after a knock on, player discussions with the ref, more consultations between video and match ref, more kicks into touch instead of in the field of play.

    Coote played out a couple of rest periods as well against Wakey there were 2 Hampshire kicks towards touch that he could have been picked up, but he allowed them to bobble into touch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevie H View Post
    Has all fallen apart since Hollbrook left, no? Shame like, but think you boys will bounce back. Every team struggles for a new identity when a successful coach leaves.
    Hopefully we’ll bounce back to the top of the league......


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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    The problem is that we had 3 seasons of increasingly awful rugby under Cunningham (and that on the back of 5 years of not-quite-as-bad uninspired drudgery, albeit with a freaky GF win under Brown).

    The Holbrook seasons (and that great mini-spell under the '3 wise men') were like a beacon of 'proper' rugby to us. Not quite Millward levels of insanity, but in comparison to the rugby played under Potter, Rush/Cunningham, Brown, Cunningham, it was like a drowning man being given oxygen.

    To now be faced with what looks like a return to bloody awful, turgid 'rugby for the purist' is too much to take.

    The annoying thing is that in our first two games back we put 34 on Catalans and 48 on Leeds (conceding just 6 points in total) and played open, flowing rugby. Then we went back to our 'primary aim is to win the arm wrestle' bore-fest tactics.

    To be honest, whilst it's good to have a very good defence, I care more about tries scored and the style of play. I'd much rather win 44-32 than 20-0.

    I also think that free-scoring games are also way more appealing to the casual viewer, too - which is vital to the financial health of our game, as it brings higher TV audiences and therefore revenue. I personally think the boring-down of the game in 2008 by allowing the slowing of the PTB and relaxing offside enforcement, along with the introduction of the 'wrestle' by Maguire & Brown, laid the platform for the decline in Sky SL viewing figures.

    Since then, I've lost almost all interest in the game beyond Saints.




    I thought under Millward we played the most entertaining rugby I have ever seen also liked his infectious enthusiasm.

    The rugby now is turgid, nothing worse than watching drive after drive up the middle (unless Walmsley breaks through)

    After the lockdown we started like an express train, no one could live with our pace, now we are back to one out rugby and would not match the pace of our 2 closest SL rivals. Did TM get a pass on V Wakey other than running the ball back ?

    For probably the first time ever I have only took a half interest in a couple of non saints games,

    We need to up the pace a bit and stop relying on Big Al or Lomax as our only ones to make or create a gap. A few players get flogged while others don't need to wash their jerseys. I have mentioned before that if the game is stopped because a player goes down with a supposed HI and does not leave the field the opposing team should get two extra tackles. HI's are being milked to give teams a rest when under pressure. As much as anything we need some consistency from referees.
    Last edited by Belgian Saint; 11th October 2020 at 16:36. Reason: typo

  10. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    [/COLOR]

    I thought under Millward we played the most entertaining rugby I have ever seen also like his infectious enthusiasm.

    The rugby now is turgid, nothing worse than watching drive after drive up the middle (unless Walmsley breaks through)

    After the lockdown we started like an express train no one could live with our pace, now we are back to one out rugby and would not match the pace of our 2 closest SL rivals. Did TM get a pas V Wakey other than running the ball back ?

    For probably the first time ever I have only took a half interest in a couple of non saints games,

    We need to up the pace a bit and stop relying on Big Al or Lomax as our only ones to make or create a gap. A few players get flogged while others don't need to wash their jerseys. I have mentioned before that if the game is stopped because a player goes down with a supposed HI and does not leave the field the opposing team should get two extra tackles. HI's are being milked to give teams a rest when under pressure. As much as anything we need some consistency from referees.
    I noticed a few Warrington players did this against Wigan yet I don’t think on any occasion they went off for a HI assessment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    [/COLOR]

    I thought under Millward we played the most entertaining rugby I have ever seen also like his infectious enthusiasm.

    The rugby now is turgid, nothing worse than watching drive after drive up the middle (unless Walmsley breaks through)

    After the lockdown we started like an express train no one could live with our pace, now we are back to one out rugby and would not match the pace of our 2 closest SL rivals. Did TM get a pas V Wakey other than running the ball back ?

    For probably the first time ever I have only took a half interest in a couple of non saints games,

    We need to up the pace a bit and stop relying on Big Al or Lomax as our only ones to make or create a gap. A few players get flogged while others don't need to wash their jerseys. I have mentioned before that if the game is stopped because a player goes down with a supposed HI and does not leave the field the opposing team should get two extra tackles. HI's are being milked to give teams a rest when under pressure. As much as anything we need some consistency from referees.
    In mentioning TommyMak I'm convinced that his moment of madness had something to do with his frustration at what was happening in the games. He was in effect a spectator at a wrestling match. As I remember it neither wing was getting a pass and it was also the time around the experiments trying to fill the centre berth instead of doing something more obvious. Not excusing it BTW.


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  12. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    I've said this before and I stand by it, I'm sure the game was slowed down as no other could live us. Maybe not the whole reason but it all fell very conveniently at the time.
    Spot on my friend. SKY obviously don't want another run away historic Saints LLS win followed by a one sided (yet entertaining) GF. Every week they're "bigging up" the underdogs (which means they're always biased against Saints by definition). wasn't the "six again" given 7-1 in favour of Wigan when we totally dominated them the other week? How on earth can that be right? It all reminds me of the GF when poor Ben was sent off and Stevo and Eddie were waxing lyrical throughout the match that Saints looked like the team a man short and that Wigan were wonderful. I know it's been touched on before but the SKY team seem to have lost any sort of context during matches. It's either the completely snooze inducing memoirs of "How I liked a Bit of Biff and Barge" with Baz or totally inane tripe from Clarke, usually when the actual commeatator should be commentating on a passage of play. Much more interesting to hear how Tez walks his whippet!

  13. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    The problem is that we had 3 seasons of increasingly awful rugby under Cunningham (and that on the back of 5 years of not-quite-as-bad uninspired drudgery, albeit with a freaky GF win under Brown).

    The Holbrook seasons (and that great mini-spell under the '3 wise men') were like a beacon of 'proper' rugby to us. Not quite Millward levels of insanity, but in comparison to the rugby played under Potter, Rush/Cunningham, Brown, Cunningham, it was like a drowning man being given oxygen.

    To now be faced with what looks like a return to bloody awful, turgid 'rugby for the purist' is too much to take.

    The annoying thing is that in our first two games back we put 34 on Catalans and 48 on Leeds (conceding just 6 points in total) and played open, flowing rugby. Then we went back to our 'primary aim is to win the arm wrestle' bore-fest tactics.

    To be honest, whilst it's good to have a very good defence, I care more about tries scored and the style of play. I'd much rather win 44-32 than 20-0.

    I also think that free-scoring games are also way more appealing to the casual viewer, too - which is vital to the financial health of our game, as it brings higher TV audiences and therefore revenue. I personally think the boring-down of the game in 2008 by allowing the slowing of the PTB and relaxing offside enforcement, along with the introduction of the 'wrestle' by Maguire & Brown, laid the platform for the decline in Sky SL viewing figures.

    Since then, I've lost almost all interest in the game beyond Saints.
    I think you’ve correctly identified why I’ve found games boring over the past weeks.

  14. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    I think you’ve correctly identified why I’ve found games boring over the past weeks.
    Me too.

    I think Saints and the competition in general need to be careful.

    The goodwill and spirit shown by fans this season will only go so far.

    Fans will just drift away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mander View Post
    Me too.

    I think Saints and the competition in general need to be careful.

    The goodwill and spirit shown by fans this season will only go so far.

    Fans will just drift away.
    One thing I should say is that I didn’t properly enjoy beating Wigan. That may have something to do with the team they put out but I got no real pleasure from the game and I find that odd. Even under KC, Derby games were still special.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    One thing I should say is that I didn’t properly enjoy beating Wigan. That may have something to do with the team they put out but I got no real pleasure from the game and I find that odd. Even under KC, Derby games were still special.
    The fact that we can’t either be there in person or watching their fans in agony on tv is a big thing I think. You beat your rivals but there’s no immediate satisfaction of seeing how much the defeat means to the other lot. It’s all at a distance or non existent when there’s no crowd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkieTalkie View Post
    In mentioning TommyMak I'm convinced that his moment of madness had something to do with his frustration at what was happening in the games. He was in effect a spectator at a wrestling match. As I remember it neither wing was getting a pass and it was also the time around the experiments trying to fill the centre berth instead of doing something more obvious. Not excusing it BTW.


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    Wow, I thought your implied conspiracy theory about the death of the inventor of the PCR test was out there but this might beat it

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaVenRouge View Post
    Wow, I thought your implied conspiracy theory about the death of the inventor of the PCR test was out there but this might beat it
    He has a point.

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