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Thread: Dodd and Welsby.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wirefox View Post
    I’ve followed Dodd’s career for quite some time and he has the ability to be one of the best halves that we have produced. The only drawback is
    Giving him game time at hooker. Dodd is an out and out no7 and if you play him at all it must be in that position
    That is spot on.

    There is clearly a reluctance to let him cut loose. He seem ready.

    The narrative from Woolf doesn't really convince me.
    The hooker cameo against Wigan was a bit of a fudge.

    Perhaps some of the senior players are not prepared
    to make way even on a temporary basis and Woolf
    has simply acquiesced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mander View Post
    That is spot on.

    There is clearly a reluctance to let him cut loose. He seem ready.

    The narrative from Woolf doesn't really convince me.
    The hooker cameo against Wigan was a bit of a fudge.

    Perhaps some of the senior players are not prepared
    to make way even on a temporary basis and Woolf
    has simply acquiesced.
    I wouldn't say it was a reluctance it is just he isn't really needed at the minute. Lomax and Fages are a Championship winning half back combination and while not everyone is sold on them putting Dodd in for no real reason other than for the sake of it is pointless. We don't need to throw him in at the deep end. We are in a great position where we can manage him into the side and he will get his chance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barry View Post
    I wouldn't say it was a reluctance it is just he isn't really needed at the minute. Lomax and Fages are a Championship winning half back combination and while not everyone is sold on them putting Dodd in for no real reason other than for the sake of it is pointless. We don't need to throw him in at the deep end. We are in a great position where we can manage him into the side and he will get his chance.

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    I should imagine Woolf has sat down with quite a few of the Academy players and given them an insight on how they are going to be introduced into the team, 2021 season will probably be the year Welsby-Dodd-Simm will see a lot more game time. Lomax, Roby and Coote are coming to the end of their careers so a gradual transition needs to keep the team in the right balance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I should imagine Woolf has sat down with quite a few of the Academy players and given them an insight on how they are going to be introduced into the team, 2021 season will probably be the year Welsby-Dodd-Simm will see a lot more game time. Lomax, Roby and Coote are coming to the end of their careers so a gradual transition needs to keep the team in the right balance.
    That would be great wouldn't it, however as it's your guess that he has, it's my guess that he hasn't. No evidence of course just a view.


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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkieTalkie View Post
    That would be great wouldn't it, however as it's your guess that he has, it's my guess that he hasn't. No evidence of course just a view.


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    https://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/news/...role-rotation/

    Quite a fair bit there to suggest that Stiddy is right in relation to Dodd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barry View Post
    https://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/news/...role-rotation/

    Quite a fair bit there to suggest that Stiddy is right in relation to Dodd.

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    There's not a single word whatsoever in support of Stiddy's expectation here. Our discussion & specifically my point was about the coach having sat down individually with the young lads to discuss their options and the coaches expectations of them and what they can expect from the coach and his staff. Nowhere does the article say anything about that. It does indeed quote that KW fluffed the opportunity to play Dodd in the halves and instead put him in at hooker. It also quotes things that might happen to Dodd down the line. However not one word stating that the coach has sat down individually with the lads to explain all of this and make them feel valued. As I say, I expect he hasn't done it & he won't do it is my guess & I doubt I'll be far off. I have no problem discussing points such as this and others but when you make a claim please do it with a critical eye and not wishful thinking.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mander View Post
    That is spot on.

    There is clearly a reluctance to let him cut loose. He seem ready.

    The narrative from Woolf doesn't really convince me.
    The hooker cameo against Wigan was a bit of a fudge.

    Perhaps some of the senior players are not prepared
    to make way even on a temporary basis and Woolf
    has simply acquiesced.
    That is a very good point about the senior leaders within the group. However the coach is judged on results and we all get that. My point about Welsby and Dodd 6 and 7 is against specific opponents whilst we have Jammer around and no crowds to spook the lads. I don't want to suddenly see a Lomaskell situation again which just seemed to happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkieTalkie View Post
    That would be great wouldn't it, however as it's your guess that he has, it's my guess that he hasn't. No evidence of course just a view.


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    There have been a couple of interviews spread across the Saints TV with Welsby, Dodd, Simm and Smith and they talk about their status in the squad. The most recent one is with Dodd which is a good one where he seems to be in the right state of mind to accept Woolf's plans to his development.

    I suppose when we get to 3 games a week we will see those fringe players coming into the side with some form of planning. Most are waiting for that Dodd/Welsby combo but in my opinion we won't see it until next season unless we end up in an emergency or experiment scenario.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    I know they’re bottom of the league but I’ve watched Wakey a few times this season and they’ve played well - they’ve been unlucky in a few games. We can’t go into these games with the attitude that all we’ve got to do is turn up. Remember Hull KR against Wigan? Go full strength in my opinion.
    Agreed, we've been turned over by them before when we have not taken them seriously.

    They always seem to lift their game against us, they aren't a bad side just inconsistent.

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    I'd throw him in but have Theo on the bench. I have seen Lewis a few times in reserve games and he looks ready.He is a 7 end of.

    Maybe Woolf wanted to ease him in against Wigan and I hope when he is played at 7 he is given a proper chance to establish himself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    There have been a couple of interviews spread across the Saints TV with Welsby, Dodd, Simm and Smith and they talk about their status in the squad. The most recent one is with Dodd which is a good one where he seems to be in the right state of mind to accept Woolf's plans to his development.

    I suppose when we get to 3 games a week we will see those fringe players coming into the side with some form of planning. Most are waiting for that Dodd/Welsby combo but in my opinion we won't see it until next season unless we end up in an emergency or experiment scenario.
    It's a good thing that they're encouraged to say something about themselves, helps them with their self esteem and maturing into being confident adults with a sense of responsibility, some of them would never have done this before. Equally connecting with the Community when the situation allows is also good for them and the club.


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    I'd have preferred to have given Dodd a go in the halves against Wigan when he came on but any game time for the likes of Simm, Welsby, Dodd and Smith is crucial for their development at this stage.

    I've mentioned before that Lomax was thrown around in different positions when he was younger before he eventually found himself regularly in the 1st team at half back and full back. Young lads will just be desperate to get a chance and gain experience, so I can understand the reasoning behind them playing in different positions, even if I would prefer to see them in their actual position.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkieTalkie View Post
    There's not a single word whatsoever in support of Stiddy's expectation here. Our discussion & specifically my point was about the coach having sat down individually with the young lads to discuss their options and the coaches expectations of them and what they can expect from the coach and his staff. Nowhere does the article say anything about that. It does indeed quote that KW fluffed the opportunity to play Dodd in the halves and instead put him in at hooker. It also quotes things that might happen to Dodd down the line. However not one word stating that the coach has sat down individually with the lads to explain all of this and make them feel valued. As I say, I expect he hasn't done it & he won't do it is my guess & I doubt I'll be far off. I have no problem discussing points such as this and others but when you make a claim please do it with a critical eye and not wishful thinking.


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    I'm bemused as to what you think a coach (especially Woolfe) actually does.
    You berate others for stating their opinions without evidence or a critical eye but then go on to state your view on how Woolfe interacts with the players and his personality. Unless you're stalking him that's not evidence based.
    If (big if) you're right & he has not spoken to the players (young or experienced alike) about their roles then he really is not doing his job. In any case perhaps some concern ought to be given to Paulo & Peyroux as their future employment looks more under threat than Dodds/Welsby/Simm.
    I'm also perplexed as to how this discussion changes. The Dodd debate seems to have moved on from the similar one re Simm & the the hanging out to dry that Welsby got earlier this season. Suspect in a few weeks after Dodds has played a few games something else will replace it.
    As ever if we end up champions Woolfe will be vindicated if not it will be another Holbrooke like first season ( last comment tongue in cheek....).

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    Sometimes coaches just want a young player to get involved. At hooker Dodd probably saw more of the ball than he would in the halves, maybe they just wanted him to have a bit of experience of 1st team rugby and keep it simple. Dodd is a very good young player and along with the likes Mikey Lewis, Harry Smith and Riley Dean it would seem that we are starting to produce some exciting halfbacks in the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkieTalkie View Post
    There's not a single word whatsoever in support of Stiddy's expectation here. Our discussion & specifically my point was about the coach having sat down individually with the young lads to discuss their options and the coaches expectations of them and what they can expect from the coach and his staff. Nowhere does the article say anything about that. It does indeed quote that KW fluffed the opportunity to play Dodd in the halves and instead put him in at hooker. It also quotes things that might happen to Dodd down the line. However not one word stating that the coach has sat down individually with the lads to explain all of this and make them feel valued. As I say, I expect he hasn't done it & he won't do it is my guess & I doubt I'll be far off. I have no problem discussing points such as this and others but when you make a claim please do it with a critical eye and not wishful thinking.


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    From the article:

    "We have always prepped with young Doddy that he could end up playing some hooker and that is a positive for him in terms of his development, not necessarily thinking he has to go straight to the halves"



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    I wouldn't start two youngsters at half back in the same game. But I would pair one with a senior half back in the next two matches, I'd play dodds and lomax this week and fages and welsby next week

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    It does seem daft to play Dodd at 9 with Fages at 7; move Fages to 9 and lets see what Dodd can do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkieTalkie View Post
    There's not a single word whatsoever in support of Stiddy's expectation here. Our discussion & specifically my point was about the coach having sat down individually with the young lads to discuss their options and the coaches expectations of them and what they can expect from the coach and his staff. Nowhere does the article say anything about that. It does indeed quote that KW fluffed the opportunity to play Dodd in the halves and instead put him in at hooker. It also quotes things that might happen to Dodd down the line. However not one word stating that the coach has sat down individually with the lads to explain all of this and make them feel valued. As I say, I expect he hasn't done it & he won't do it is my guess & I doubt I'll be far off. I have no problem discussing points such as this and others but when you make a claim please do it with a critical eye and not wishful thinking.


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    The latest interview with Woolf shows that he has indeed had the conversations that Stiddy expected him to have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JB1973 View Post
    I wouldn't start two youngsters at half back in the same game. But I would pair one with a senior half back in the next two matches, I'd play dodds and lomax this week and fages and welsby next week
    That will probably happen in the next few weeks, I should imagine Lomax, Coote, Roby and maybe Fages won't be playing 3 games in a week and Smith, Welsby and Smith will cover those positions and Simm will play most his games at left centre with Welsby playing the odd game there as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon Sexton View Post
    It does seem daft to play Dodd at 9 with Fages at 7; move Fages to 9 and lets see what Dodd can do.
    I can see reasons for both to be honest. Hooker is more "protected" from an attacking point of view, with plenty of opportunity to touch the ball but not potentially get smashed at first receiver. The other side being he's a half and if he isn't ready to handle everything thrown at him then he shouldn't be there. Anyway, I'm looking forward to tonight and seeing him get another crack.

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    Another perfect game to give Dodd his chance at 7 and he leaves him out completely, disappointing but not surprising in the slightest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintH517 View Post
    Another perfect game to give Dodd his chance at 7 and he leaves him out completely, disappointing but not surprising in the slightest.
    Maybe Welsby preferred on the bench as he can do a stint at loose forward in the absence of Graham

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintH517 View Post
    Another perfect game to give Dodd his chance at 7 and he leaves him out completely, disappointing but not surprising in the slightest.
    Dunno if we're going to rotate the squad it might be better to do it next week instead given we had last week off. Otherwise it would be three weeks between games for one of Fages/Lomax. Unless Welsby dropped out this week, but he does have better utility value from the bench.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintH517 View Post
    Another perfect game to give Dodd his chance at 7 and he leaves him out completely, disappointing but not surprising in the slightest.
    I'm getting sick & tired hearing myself whinging about things like this but yes a great opportunity, maybe next week? Couldn't do any worse a job in the halves than I'm seeing at the minute.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Day View Post
    Maybe Welsby preferred on the bench as he can do a stint at loose forward in the absence of Graham
    Maybe it was pointless having 4 subs with our team so utterly dominant and in such great form.

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