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Thread: Handicapped by Set Restarts

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk STIDDY's Avatar
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    Default Handicapped by Set Restarts

    Saddened touched on this subject on that boring VT (RL Fans) and probably could be debated on here.

    A few of us are starting to notice that we are now being handicapped by the new 6 again ruling. It started off OK a few months ago with a bit of balance to reflect the game but lately we seemed to be getting hammered by it, 7 to 1 in the Goons favour the other night and similar in the Wire game.

    Are we losing advantage because we execute quicker PTB's or maybe we are getting the refs officiating a bit too one sided, watching the Goons on replay I couldn't justify that 7 to 1 and that was with my saints specs off.

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    I was concerned about this being introduced from the outset, even though, if implemented properly, it can bring a new level of excitement to the game.

    The issue here is our officials simply aren't good enough to even follow the simple rules, let alone where a further element of using their initiative is concerned
    "The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom." Danny Blanchflower.
    Might have been written by a footballer about football - but never a truer word............

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Saddened touched on this subject on that boring VT (RL Fans) and probably could be debated on here.

    A few of us are starting to notice that we are now being handicapped by the new 6 again ruling. It started off OK a few months ago with a bit of balance to reflect the game but lately we seemed to be getting hammered by it, 7 to 1 in the Goons favour the other night and similar in the Wire game.

    Are we losing advantage because we execute quicker PTB's or maybe we are getting the refs officiating a bit too one sided, watching the Goons on replay I couldn't justify that 7 to 1 and that was with my saints specs off.
    Its a total nonsense. It is just another way in which the referees can interpret the rules to change the flow and direction of a game to suit their whims. It has always been easy for the referee to give a couple of tactical penalties to shift the flow of a game, but now its even easier.

    In all logical common sense, how can anyone watch that game on Tuesday night - an utterly dominant performance by a bigger, stronger and faster team - and judge that Wigan only committed 1 offence at the play the balls in the whole 80 minutes. In the hundreds of tackles that Saints dominated the Wigan defence, on only 1 occasion did the Wigan player(s) do something wrong, yet the same dominant team committed 7 times more offences despite having the need to.

    It would actually be quite easy for it to be managed by the video referee, like the shot clock is done. As soon as the on field referee calls Held, the video referee sets a timer for whatever time, and then a hooter goes off if they have not released him. That would take all the inconsistency out of it and stop the on field referee being able to dictate and control the game as they want.

    The whole game was like a under 7s game where the dad of one of the players is the referee and coach of the team. Thaler spent the whole game coaching the Wigan team..at one point at the start of the second half you could hear him say "Amir, get off him...Amir, move" for 3 consecutive tackles, then a bit later "are you OK, Ben?" after a big tackle.
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    The club said they will not challenge this imbalance. Surely they should.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Hemmings' Wig View Post
    Its a total nonsense. It is just another way in which the referees can interpret the rules to change the flow and direction of a game to suit their whims. It has always been easy for the referee to give a couple of tactical penalties to shift the flow of a game, but now its even easier.

    In all logical common sense, how can anyone watch that game on Tuesday night - an utterly dominant performance by a bigger, stronger and faster team - and judge that Wigan only committed 1 offence at the play the balls in the whole 80 minutes. In the hundreds of tackles that Saints dominated the Wigan defence, on only 1 occasion did the Wigan player(s) do something wrong, yet the same dominant team committed 7 times more offences despite having the need to.

    It would actually be quite easy for it to be managed by the video referee, like the shot clock is done. As soon as the on field referee calls Held, the video referee sets a timer for whatever time, and then a hooter goes off if they have not released him. That would take all the inconsistency out of it and stop the on field referee being able to dictate and control the game as they want.

    The whole game was like a under 7s game where the dad of one of the players is the referee and coach of the team. Thaler spent the whole game coaching the Wigan team..at one point at the start of the second half you could hear him say "Amir, get off him...Amir, move" for 3 consecutive tackles, then a bit later "are you OK, Ben?" after a big tackle.
    I thought it was just me that hear that going on, there were a couple in the first half too.

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    Agree that this has not been implemented well and that interpretation from refs is going to be an issue. I watched the game v Wigan here in NZ and was shocked by how badly the rule was used- not just in that Saints clearly didnt get the fair go but also in how infrequently it was used in comparison with NRL - I'd hate to see how a test match would be referred with these rules and the obvious differences in interpretation between hemisphere refs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    I thought it was just me that hear that going on, there were a couple in the first half too.
    I still can't believe that he called LMS out to tell him to respect the Wigan lad

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Hemmings' Wig View Post

    The whole game was like a under 7s game where the dad of one of the players is the referee and coach of the team. Thaler spent the whole game coaching the Wigan team..at one point at the start of the second half you could hear him say "Amir, get off him...Amir, move" for 3 consecutive tackles, then a bit later "are you OK, Ben?" after a big tackle.
    I thought that was a bit odd, seemed to go out of his way to protect the welfare of the young goons. There was one incident just mentioned when Thaler had extended words with LMS, initially I thought it was between LMS and the ref but Thaler wanted LMS to show respect to a player who had just inflicted a bit of a head shot on him (LMS).

    If that was Thaler's mindset from the start maybe that's why he gave an embarrassing 7:1 restart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaVenRouge View Post
    I still can't believe that he called LMS out to tell him to respect the Wigan lad
    I thought that was towards himself knowing the size of that pricks ego.

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    Watching game tonight it funny watching Powell’s face every time the ref gives a decision against cas.Both him and Wells look rattled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saint mac View Post
    Watching game tonight it funny watching Powell’s face every time the ref gives a decision against cas.Both him and Wells look rattled.
    His face is always a picture! Proper grumpy sod haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    I thought that was towards himself knowing the size of that pricks ego.
    Shambolic. LMS had just given him a little tap of acknowledgement which has returned by the Wigan lad, all good, see it happen loads of times. God knows what Thaler saw, guys an arrogant nark.

    Sent from my SM-A715F using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Saddened touched on this subject on that boring VT (RL Fans) and probably could be debated on here.

    A few of us are starting to notice that we are now being handicapped by the new 6 again ruling. It started off OK a few months ago with a bit of balance to reflect the game but lately we seemed to be getting hammered by it, 7 to 1 in the Goons favour the other night and similar in the Wire game.

    Are we losing advantage because we execute quicker PTB's or maybe we are getting the refs officiating a bit too one sided, watching the Goons on replay I couldn't justify that 7 to 1 and that was with my saints specs off.
    The wigan game was a bit of an exaggeration of a genuine problem.
    Think the ref managed the game to stop the game really blowing out.

    That said Saints and Bentley in particular is getting pinged more in recent weeks.
    Mostly for hands on the ball. Most of of the calls are open to interpretation.
    Some fair , Some harsh , some 50/50.

    Easiest way to respond , extra effort to have hands away when standing up
    and facing the player playing the ball.

    They don't make the difference between winning or losing the ruck.
    They just give the ref the opportunity to call six again.
    Hands away then a six again can't be given.

    Once these calls reduce then you can reset how long the player remains in the tackle.

    At the minute Saints are getting hammered and need to put the ref in a position
    that they can't make call after call.

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    Exactly right , most calls are open to interpretation , some refs will give it some won’t . Are they wrong , are they bent or are they giving what they think is right at the time ?

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    I think we're absolutely right to call it out and get clarification on this. If I was Saints I'd be sending clips of the offences given against us and post similar clips of the opposition doing the same to us which didn't cause set restarts (to which there are many) as proof that games aren't being reffed consistently.

    I've no issue with some of the set restarts against us btw. In some instances it is our fault and that is an issue we need to be looking at internally and working on (Bentley in particular is guilty of this alot), but it has to work both ways and certainly in a few games this season it hasn't been.
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    Quote Originally Posted by saint mac View Post
    Watching game tonight it funny watching Powell’s face every time the ref gives a decision against cas.Both him and Wells look rattled.
    Hulls second try was comic brilliance, half the Cas team wanting a fight, while hull just carried on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    I think we're absolutely right to call it out and get clarification on this. If I was Saints I'd be sending clips of the offences given against us and post similar clips of the opposition doing the same to us which didn't cause set restarts (to which there are many) as proof that games aren't being reffed consistently.

    I've no issue with some of the set restarts against us btw. In some instances it is our fault and that is an issue we need to be looking at internally and working on (Bentley in particular is guilty of this alot), but it has to work both ways and certainly in a few games this season it hasn't been.
    There doesn't seem any logic to me. They seem to shout it out randomly

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    Thaler was trying to stop a blow out and get the goons on the scoreboard. He was frankly a blatant disgrace in my opinion and I usually really want to support the officials.

    Absolutely NO excuse for a 7 1 set restart count when you review all of the tackles each side is equally infringing at the ptb.
    Learned comment from The Don

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mander View Post

    That said Saints and Bentley in particular is getting pinged more in recent weeks.
    Mostly for hands on the ball. Most of of the calls are open to interpretation.
    Some fair , Some harsh , some 50/50.

    Easiest way to respond , extra effort to have hands away when standing up
    and facing the player playing the ball.
    Bentley does seems to be the one the refs pick on. The are plenty of serial offenders at the PTB from other teams, off the top of my head McShane-Maloney-Connor-Leeming-Farrell are worse but I get the impression the refs show more tolerance.

    Bentley does wrestle and maul a bit more, does that put the ref in two minds on tackle completion to play the ball.

    If we are going to pinged 3x-4x-5x-6x-7x than the opposition the club needs an explanation so that they fix it up at the saints player level or expose the refs are handicapping Saints by lack of parity between the two teams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    I think we're absolutely right to call it out and get clarification on this. If I was Saints I'd be sending clips of the offences given against us and post similar clips of the opposition doing the same to us which didn't cause set restarts (to which there are many) as proof that games aren't being reffed consistently.

    I've no issue with some of the set restarts against us btw. In some instances it is our fault and that is an issue we need to be looking at internally and working on (Bentley in particular is guilty of this alot), but it has to work both ways and certainly in a few games this season it hasn't been.
    I'm with you on this. They could show the average time held down before we get a restart compared to the opposition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OoOGazOoO View Post
    His face is always a picture! Proper grumpy sod haha.
    Didn't you know that the world is against him.

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    I think Saints have raised the issue but in a subtle manner with Woolf stating that he’s going to have a look to see what we’re doing wrong compared with other clubs. Rather than throw a strop like Powell, he’s managed to identify an issue without getting the officials on the wrong side and perhaps subliminally referees will think about set restarts more kindly from our perspective. But if the situation continues perhaps expect McManus to step in guns blazing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    I think Saints have raised the issue but in a subtle manner with Woolf stating that he’s going to have a look to see what we’re doing wrong compared with other clubs. Rather than throw a strop like Powell, he’s managed to identify an issue without getting the officials on the wrong side and perhaps subliminally referees will think about set restarts more kindly from our perspective. But if the situation continues perhaps expect McManus to step in guns blazing.
    Only if it is justified by video evidence the club should make an issue of it sooner than later, we are only 6 to 8 weeks away from the League Leaders Shield and Grand Final Play Offs. The message needs to get across to the refs that its possible they are not treating the infringement with balance. I don't know if anyone has also noticed but lately there seems to be a slight delay of seconds in awarding the 6 again, is it possible the video ref has hot wired the infringement to the match ref.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Don View Post
    Thaler was trying to stop a blow out and get the goons on the scoreboard. He was frankly a blatant disgrace in my opinion and I usually really want to support the officials.

    Absolutely NO excuse for a 7 1 set restart count when you review all of the tackles each side is equally infringing at the ptb.

    Whilst frustrating, it's not an issue that leads to major impact when it's to stop a blow-out. But the CC game last week again saw us on the wrong end of tackle restarts when we really weren't any worse than the opposition - and that's not the only time. Seems that after we blew Leeds & Catalans away, we started being far more heavily penalised than the opposition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaVenRouge View Post
    I still can't believe that he called LMS out to tell him to respect the Wigan lad

    I think it was more to do with LMS refusing to come to the ref when the ref called him over

    I actually think he was right to do so

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