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Thread: Laws of The Game

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    Default Laws of The Game

    I'm surprised that more hasn't been made of the header by Gelling. I know folk may say it's sour grapes to blame the defeat on that try (it did win Wire the game after all!), but I find it odd more hasn't been made of it. I checked on Rugby-League.com #RFL125 under Laws of The Game where it states:

    Heading The Ball: It is illegal to head the ball in a forward direction.

    There's no mention of "deliberate" or "accidental" unlike a knock on which is dealt with prior to the heading law. So the law is clear, intentional or not, it's illegal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prez View Post
    I'm surprised that more hasn't been made of the header by Gelling. I know folk may say it's sour grapes to blame the defeat on that try (it did win Wire the game after all!), but I find it odd more hasn't been made of it. I checked on Rugby-League.com #RFL125 under Laws of The Game where it states:

    Heading The Ball: It is illegal to head the ball in a forward direction.

    There's no mention of "deliberate" or "accidental" unlike a knock on which is dealt with prior to the heading law. So the law is clear, intentional or not it's illegal.
    Ian Smith has clarified this on Twitter. He’s said if it’s unintentional (which it clearly was) then it’s play on. I do agree that the rules on the RFL website should reflect this though to avoid confusion.
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    Yeah he didn't 'head' the ball, it just smacked him on the noggin on the way past. Nothing wrong with the decision just a freak bit of good fortune.

    Wasn't it us who triggered this being added to the rules as well with a set move to offside players?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Private Pyle View Post
    Yeah he didn't 'head' the ball, it just smacked him on the noggin on the way past. Nothing wrong with the decision just a freak bit of good fortune.

    Wasn't it us who triggered this being added to the rules as well with a set move to offside players?
    I get that it wasn't intentional, there again often a player makes a tackle and the ball carrier passes the ball as the tackle is being made resulting in the ball striking the hand or arm of the tackler. This is always given as a knock on despite the tackler obviously not playing for the ball, so what's the difference? It was obvious Charnley didn't think he'd scored as he showed no emotion when touching the ball down, not even the famous "Joining Jack" celebration. You've got to say well done to him for playing on and grounding it though!

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    Ian smith,, shit ref , didn’t know the rules when he reffed,,still doesn’t bloody know the rules thank god he retired.

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    The pass looked forward, but Gelling was so close it was never getting called. Had it missed him and found it’s way to Charnley I think it’d have been called forward as Kendall had called them for a couple already and was correct to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    The pass looked forward, but Gelling was so close it was never getting called. Had it missed him and found it’s way to Charnley I think it’d have been called forward as Kendall had called them for a couple already and was correct to do so.
    Any competent referee would have taken a moment and thought about how it hit him in the head. He was in the process of overrunning the ball, the pass was awful, just rule the pass forward. Instead he just gleefully charged forward and went to the video ref, quite what for I'll never know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    Any competent referee would have taken a moment and thought about how it hit him in the head. He was in the process of overrunning the ball, the pass was awful, just rule the pass forward. Instead he just gleefully charged forward and went to the video ref, quite what for I'll never know.
    Yep, it’s a real weakness in a lot of sports that we have refs that don’t seem to fathom basic stuff like this. I don’t really like the idea that it hit Gelling accidentally either. What was he doing there, running for a bus? He is either the receiver or he’s the dummy runner, either way, he’s actively involved in the play. As you say, the only way it hits him on the head is because he’s overrun the ball and the pass was forward. To ignore that and focus on whether it hit his head accidentally was crap reffing from Kendall.

    And the fact that we can’t judge forward passes on replays is now also ridiculous. Apparently we can’t judge momentum or other factors when a player passes the ball forward, because it’s subjective. But we can judge whether a player actively engaged in a set move deliberately headed a ball. Surely that’s subjective as well. We all know he didn’t do it deliberately, but in doing so we are just using our common sense and logic. The same common sense and logic would allow a ref or video ref to say the pass was forward.

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    Did Someone say he was accidentally off side.if Gelling was off side it must of been in front of the passer,so it’s a forward pass.Not sure if it was the ref the linesman or some one in the commentary team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Yep, it’s a real weakness in a lot of sports that we have refs that don’t seem to fathom basic stuff like this. I don’t really like the idea that it hit Gelling accidentally either. What was he doing there, running for a bus? He is either the receiver or he’s the dummy runner, either way, he’s actively involved in the play. As you say, the only way it hits him on the head is because he’s overrun the ball and the pass was forward. To ignore that and focus on whether it hit his head accidentally was crap reffing from Kendall.

    And the fact that we can’t judge forward passes on replays is now also ridiculous. Apparently we can’t judge momentum or other factors when a player passes the ball forward, because it’s subjective. But we can judge whether a player actively engaged in a set move deliberately headed a ball. Surely that’s subjective as well. We all know he didn’t do it deliberately, but in doing so we are just using our common sense and logic. The same common sense and logic would allow a ref or video ref to say the pass was forward.
    Spot on. I would also add that at the time the Linesman stopped running with play and walked on to the pitch which is a clear indication that the pass was forward. But if they can’t see Blake Offside all the game you’re on a hiding to nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saint mac View Post
    Did Someone say he was accidentally off side.if Gelling was off side it must of been in front of the passer,so it’s a forward pass.Not sure if it was the ref the linesman or some one in the commentary team.
    1. If he was accidentally offside it should have been ruled no try and, in the absence of scrums, should have been a hand over.

    2. Ditto a forward pass.

    3. The laws include:

    “Heading the ball 4. It is illegal to head the ball in a forward direction.”

    Unlike surrounding laws, that particular rule is not qualified by a note. In the absence of any qualification, I don’t understand why referees, even acting corporately at some meeting, think they can ignore it. Surely it should be formally changed or qualified if it deemed overly strict.

    I’m not moaning about the result, merely querying why referees think the should ignore unamended laws. It was a tight game, we lost, we move on.
    Last edited by Suttoner; 21st September 2020 at 17:41. Reason: PS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    1. If he was accidentally offside it should have been ruled no try and, in the absence of scrums, should have been a hand over.

    2. Ditto a forward pass.

    3. The laws include:

    “Heading the ball 4. It is illegal to head the ball in a forward direction.”

    Unlike surrounding laws, that particular rule is not qualified by a note. In the absence of any qualification, I don’t understand why referees, even acting corporately at some meeting, think they can ignore it. Surely it should be formally changed or qualified if it deemed overly strict.

    I’m not moaning about the result, merely querying why referees think the should ignore unamended laws. It was a tight game, we lost, we move on.
    Thinking about it “head the ball” probably describes a positive, not an accidental, act. In association football, heading the ball is deliberate. That means that there was nothing to justify a penalty. I presume that the word “illegal” means that a penalty should be given in the event of a deliberate, forward header. However, surely when Charnley caught the ball he was offside, regardless of a forward pass or not. The ball moved forward off his own player. Doesn’t that mean he was offside or am I missing something?

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    If that try had been disallowed I don’t think one wire fan would have been complaining.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    Thinking about it “head the ball” probably describes a positive, not an accidental, act. In association football, heading the ball is deliberate. That means that there was nothing to justify a penalty. I presume that the word “illegal” means that a penalty should be given in the event of a deliberate, forward header. However, surely when Charnley caught the ball he was offside, regardless of a forward pass or not. The ball moved forward off his own player. Doesn’t that mean he was offside or am I missing something?
    For Charnley to be offside he would of had to of been infront of the player who headed the ball,he wasn't so it's a moot point.

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    What would we have said if it was Saints that had scored a try like that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    Any competent referee would have taken a moment and thought about how it hit him in the head. He was in the process of overrunning the ball, the pass was awful, just rule the pass forward. Instead he just gleefully charged forward and went to the video ref, quite what for I'll never know.
    The ref snookered himself by going to the video ref because the only possible reason to disallow was a marginal forward pass, its the reverse of the Hicks not going to the video ref for the "Knowles Try". We've been fortunate with some lucky decisions in the past so we have to take it on the chin or (forehead) and move on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maghullsaint View Post
    What would we have said if it was Saints that had scored a try like that?
    I’d have been happy to win the game but would still be baffled. I don’t think many fans complain when marginal forward passes or the strange bounce of the ball go in their favour but this one was really odd.

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