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Thread: Lack of quality 7 & kicking game

  1. #26
    Got A Season Ticket Billinge Bren's Avatar
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    I've never seen us finish so many sets on the halfway line. The 6 again killed us today and the constant offside around the ruck. We tried to meet them up the middle with one man rugby and when we did spread it there was no momentum. Losing Percy killed us.

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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by The.Reverand View Post
    A pair of eyes. Need nothing more.
    Oh well we should obviously all now to your knowledge of the game. You should apply to be the next coach as you obviously know everything.

  3. #28
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    Just exactly what magical scrum half tree should we be looking under ? Who would you sign that is available and realistic? It's all very well saying we need to sign someone but who ?

    It's obviously the plan to bring Dodds along in the next few years as he is viewed as a long term halfback. The team didn't do to badly with Theo at 7 last year and last time I looked we seemed to be doing rather well in the league.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billinge Bren View Post
    I've never seen us finish so many sets on the halfway line. The 6 again killed us today and the constant offside around the ruck. We tried to meet them up the middle with one man rugby and when we did spread it there was no momentum. Losing Percy killed us.

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    This is it for me.
    They had so many 6 again in our 22 we were always on the back foot. Percy was doing really well until he went off.
    I was one who said put Bentley at centre if Percy didn't play, but he was continually caught out of position there.

  5. #30
    In The South Stand Sean Day's Avatar
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    I think Théo does a steady job and no more. Just an inexpensive cog in the wheel. I wonder if it’s worth giving Dodd a go now. Fages will possibly end up sharing hooking duties with Smith so it might be worth trying that too. I actually thought our game sped up a lot when Smith came on today

  6. #31
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    I don’t understand all the doom and gloom. It was a cracking match between 1st and 2nd. It could’ve gone either way, a forward pass here, a headed ball there. The ref didn’t rob anyone today. As for the problem near the line I must have dreamt the qtry from quick hands on the left started by Fages I think.
    But if you are going to criticise your halfbacks I didn’t see Lomax do any more than Fages.

  7. #32
    Got A Season Ticket Billinge Bren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    This is it for me.
    They had so many 6 again in our 22 we were always on the back foot. Percy was doing really well until he went off.
    I was one who said put Bentley at centre if Percy didn't play, but he was continually caught out of position there.
    The 6 again has benefitted us this season but it's a lung buster when it goes against us. Let's teams march down field.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie McWolf View Post
    I don’t understand all the doom and gloom. It was a cracking match between 1st and 2nd. It could’ve gone either way, a forward pass here, a headed ball there. The ref didn’t rob anyone today. As for the problem near the line I must have dreamt the qtry from quick hands on the left started by Fages I think.
    But if you are going to criticise your halfbacks I didn’t see Lomax do any more than Fages.
    It was a very good quality game, Warrington had a stronger bench to control that middle much better. The kicks to the much taller King and Gelling was a big factor as well.

  9. #34
    In The South Stand Paul Newlove's Avatar
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    I know it was only one game but I was impressed with Welsby a few weeks back at half back but he isn't a winger and it's costing us. I said as soon as Makinson was banned Naqaima has NRL experience as a winger and Peyroux likewise at centre that's how I'd go in a big game without Tommy

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    In The South Stand Jackbit's Avatar
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    We lost Percy and it went to pieces. I thought Dom would have been in but they believed Mark would be OK? We needed to defeat their forwards and we did for the most part. But ffs don't try to ping this one Fages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Newlove View Post
    I know it was only one game but I was impressed with Welsby a few weeks back at half back but he isn't a winger and it's costing us. I said as soon as Makinson was banned Naqaima has NRL experience as a winger and Peyroux likewise at centre that's how I'd go in a big game without Tommy
    It was the other side that cost us today Bentley and Grace struggled with Gelling and I thought Coote was a bit below par as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brook View Post
    Just exactly what magical scrum half tree should we be looking under ? Who would you sign that is available and realistic? It's all very well saying we need to sign someone but who ?

    It's obviously the plan to bring Dodds along in the next few years as he is viewed as a long term halfback. The team didn't do to badly with Theo at 7 last year and last time I looked we seemed to be doing rather well in the league.
    Benji Marshall is available and bringing in for a year before Dodd becomes first choice 7 would be better than just sticking with Fages. It won’t happen of course but the sooner Dodd is ready the better because Fages isn’t up to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintH517 View Post
    Benji Marshall is available and bringing in for a year before Dodd becomes first choice 7 would be better than just sticking with Fages. It won’t happen of course but the sooner Dodd is ready the better because Fages isn’t up to it.
    Really ? you think a player that has stated he has no interest in coming to the UK and will be 36 next year is a viable option ?

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by brook View Post
    Really ? you think a player that has stated he has no interest in coming to the UK and will be 36 next year is a viable option ?
    Considering he’s never said that and is out of contract, yes I do.

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    Bottom line is we lost by 2 points,so we competed to the end. We are top of the league with more points scored than other teams. So our attack can't be as bad as people are making out. Seems Fages is the new scapegoat.

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    This thread isn’t a knee jerk response to a loss, the lack of creativity near the opposition line has actually been a problem since Barba left. Last year it didn’t matter as we just steamrollered opposition but it cost us early this season and threatened to cost us against Hull KR and Castleford post lockdown. Lomax does it occasionally but how often do any of our halves throw a decent dummy or step near the line. We have a spine that is excellent behind a dominant pack as the structure we play to will pick off mismatches and holes from line breaks. Against a committed, organised defence though we struggle. A better offloading game across the team would certainly help but our 1, 6 and 7 need to take on the line more, if for no other reason than to put some doubt in the opposition defence rather than letting them keep sliding across knowing the pass is coming.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58er View Post
    IN A NUTSHELL. pack too small.
    Exactly this!!! Our pack is no where near as affective when Walmsley goes off. It's time for our replacement props to step up. Amor has done well the last few weeks but one hard tackle on him and he doesn't want to know. Matty Lees needs to sort himself out as well. Stupid silly penalties trying to act like an enforcer on the pitch when he is anything but. Graham needs a rest, he looks knackered. Maybe that Davis was right. If a pack gives it to us then we don't wanna know.

  18. #43
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    Not sure if its our coaching this season but whats happened to Lomax? Over the last few years all his ball touches have been quality and resulted in something for us. This year he’s running around with his head up his arse. Its like watching him early 2012 when Simmons was coaching us!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie McWolf View Post
    I don’t understand all the doom and gloom. It was a cracking match between 1st and 2nd. It could’ve gone either way, a forward pass here, a headed ball there. The ref didn’t rob anyone today. As for the problem near the line I must have dreamt the qtry from quick hands on the left started by Fages I think.
    But if you are going to criticise your halfbacks I didn’t see Lomax do any more than Fages.
    Whichever way it gets spun, once again we lost to your lot in a big game. And as per usual its the same players that struggle when it matters most. Amor for example. Everyone gets giddy because he has a handful of decent games. Comes to a game that matters and he gets bullied against bigger men. Im not blaming Amor for the loss. Just using him as an example.
    We need to sort out Percival. We can’t keep going into a game with a centre that can only play 15 minutes. His loss yesterday mixed with those repeat sets really cost us. Warrington messed around in the tackle just has much as we did but Kendall ignored it.
    I really don’t trust the refs in this country not to abuse that new rule. At half time we made a ton more tackles than Warrington and most of those were within our own 20 metre zone. Considering that, we did well to find the energy and composure to come back in the second half.

    But bottom line, we lost. And thats not good enough no matter how many excuses we have.
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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintH517 View Post
    Considering he’s never said that and is out of contract, yes I do.
    Marshall will go to Brisbane I reckon

  21. #46
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Scouse Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    For the last three years I have been saying that Fages isn't good enough and nothing ever changes my mind.

    I wouldn't say he was the reason we lost, but the one thing that has been missing throughout the last three good years is a half back ability to prize open the opposition on the last tackle, and I'll include Jonny Lomax in that. Our last tackle plays have been dreadful for a very long time.

    The need for a commanding half back with a kicking game is clear for most to see.
    This. Been saying it for a couple of years.We won't win big tight games until we get one. To be fair I am a Theo fan but he simply is not a natural7 and I disagree with an initial poster this is a vital part of the game still and always will be.
    Learned comment from The Don

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Don View Post
    This. Been saying it for a couple of years.We won't win big tight games until we get one. To be fair I am a Theo fan but he simply is not a natural7 and I disagree with an initial poster this is a vital part of the game still and always will be.
    Been saying this as well a couple of times over the last couple of seasons but always get shot down on here. The concern is that not being a natural half back means the likes of Dodd and Welsby will miss out on game time in their natural positions. For me we should also be looking at that future no 9 spot replacement and who are the best fit in Smith, Bentley or Fages.

  23. #48
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    Still a great game yesterday and we would have won with a fully fit team. Definitely cost us with the disruption losing Percival leading up to half time. Wolf must be doing something right as we were the best team 2nd half and still could have won.
    Last edited by Houghwood Saint; 20th September 2020 at 09:43.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie McWolf View Post
    I don’t understand all the doom and gloom. It was a cracking match between 1st and 2nd. It could’ve gone either way, a forward pass here, a headed ball there. The ref didn’t rob anyone today. As for the problem near the line I must have dreamt the qtry from quick hands on the left started by Fages I think.
    But if you are going to criticise your halfbacks I didn’t see Lomax do any more than Fages.
    I don’t think you’ve grasped this forum pal. When we win we’re the best team on the planet and our superstars would grace any side in world rugby. When we lose we need to get rid of the lot of them and sack the coach. Being level headed gets you nowhere on here!!!

    For what it’s worth I agree with your post. An excellent game of Rugby between the 2 best teams in the comp who have adapted better to the new rules than the rest have. We just don’t seem to get the rub of the green when we play you in the big games. That 5 minute lapse just before half time probably cost us the game and left us with to much to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brook View Post
    The days of an out and out 7 are gone. I don't know why people are so hung up on it.
    It doesn't matter whether its a 6,7,9,13 on his back there is a role for a player who can draw the opposition then put a forward through a gap rather than trying to act as a battering ram.

    Player's play the role that the coach gives them so personal criticism is a bit unfair.

    There was a lot of disruption yesterday so difficult to criticise the coach's tactics based on that game but basically we have a good Plan A which will win us most of our games but in the tight games against the better sides, if things aren't going right, we need switch things round a bit.

    We looked more dangerous yesterday in the spell that both Smith and Roby were on the field

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