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Thread: OOC players

  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Cleal View Post
    But being serious, a player of Welsby's age just needs games. It is not clear which position is his best spot so for now he can come in and do a job where needed.

    If you look at the NSW team, the trend in the NRL is to get your best players in to the spine, as both the NSW centre's are in the spine of their club sides (1 & 6). In fact, I have said that if Super League clubs did the same as NRL clubs Tommy Makinson would have been signed by another club as their full back on marquee money.

    I think that wing or centre is a good place for Welsby to get his first 50 games under his belt but then, if he lives up to his potential, we need him at 1 or 6. I think that Jon Wilkin never fulfilled his potential because as a senior player he was never permanently put in a place he could influence the team and was ultimately wasted as a running second rower.

    I can see Welsby ending his career as a ball playing 13 eventually.
    The problem the club will seem to have without a credible reserve grade is if Welsby fills in all over the back line where do the other players get any opportunity whatsoever. Does he cover the halves before Dodd who has promise, same with Simm in centres, what about Rizzelli/Nisbet on the wing who have only had one chance I think and will no doubt improve next outing they get? It's a conundrum that the club need to manage and I sense some frustration with the comments about how it's being managed at the minute. I personally don't agree in developing a Jack of all trades (forgive the pun). It's handy to have these type of players on the bench down the line but I think while a young player needs to maintain some breath of focus across all aspects of the game they should be being schooled in particular skills to suit their own development plan. Trouble is I don't see where he's better than the others especially when he's been given significantly more opportunities that all of the others added together. Another question I have is who is actually specifically working on the skills development of these young back line players?

  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkieTalkie View Post
    The problem the club will seem to have without a credible reserve grade is if Welsby fills in all over the back line where do the other players get any opportunity whatsoever. Does he cover the halves before Dodd who has promise, same with Simm in centres, what about Rizzelli/Nisbet on the wing who have only had one chance I think and will no doubt improve next outing they get? It's a conundrum that the club need to manage and I sense some frustration with the comments about how it's being managed at the minute. I personally don't agree in developing a Jack of all trades (forgive the pun). It's handy to have these type of players on the bench down the line but I think while a young player needs to maintain some breath of focus across all aspects of the game they should be being schooled in particular skills to suit their own development plan. Trouble is I don't see where he's better than the others especially when he's been given significantly more opportunities that all of the others added together. Another question I have is who is actually specifically working on the skills development of these young back line players?
    I should imagine when Simm and Dodd get more game time then Welsby will be lesser of a "filler" in that back line. Hopefully all three will become prominent at the back end of next season ready for a shift in our pivots for 2022, that year we might not see Coote, Roby, and Lomax for example.

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I should imagine when Simm and Dodd get more game time then Welsby will be lesser of a "filler" in that back line. Hopefully all three will become prominent at the back end of next season ready for a shift in our pivots for 2022, that year we might not see Coote, Roby, and Lomax for example.
    Absolutely I agree about 2022 but I suppose my point was how the process will be managed up and until then. These lads will all be massively keen to make an impression and will be hungry to learn & gain exposure so there will need to be a complimentary plan for each of them. They need to be prepared for 2022. It's surely clear that there's been an imbalance up to now and likely the door will shut to them all pending Percy's return notwithstanding other potential injuries that will perhaps come & go. My question still stands, who specifically will be working on each of their development objectives with them to prepare them to step up to challenge for 1st team selection in the position they've been trained for? I really don't know.


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  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkieTalkie View Post
    Absolutely I agree about 2022 but I suppose my point was how the process will be managed up and until then. These lads will all be massively keen to make an impression and will be hungry to learn & gain exposure so there will need to be a complimentary plan for each of them. They need to be prepared for 2022. It's surely clear that there's been an imbalance up to now and likely the door will shut to them all pending Percy's return notwithstanding other potential injuries that will perhaps come & go. My question still stands, who specifically will be working on each of their development objectives with them to prepare them to step up to challenge for 1st team selection in the position they've been trained for? I really don't know.


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    I should imagine their development is complete in respect to selection to the first team, they are ready. It's all about opportunities to get game time now, the greatest thing is that they are only 18 to 19 years old and it does look look as though they are the real thing for our future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I should imagine their development is complete in respect to selection to the first team, they are ready. It's all about opportunities to get game time now, the greatest thing is that they are only 18 to 19 years old and it does look look as though they are the real thing for our future.
    I agree with your last bit but I would say every one I've mentioned are far from fully developed, physically, tactically & likely mentally. They still need a lot of mentoring & guidance in my view & I don't know where they'll get it unfortunately unless someone can tell me how it works definitively as we can all speculate.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    I think he had some brilliant games in the latter half of 2018, but he hasn't produced that form anywhere near consistently enough. He wasn't nearly as effective in 2019. Add to that the fact that at 25 he's not really a young player anymore, and I can't really see a good case for keeping him.
    Pretty much correct. Ashworth was/is the modern day Gary Wheeler, had a handful of good games against shit teams like Wakefield and suddenly a sizeable few were enchanted by him. His 2019 was awful culminating in a series of vanishing acts against the big boys. He is totally underwhelming and wont be missed one iota.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Pretty much correct. Ashworth was/is the modern day Gary Wheeler, had a handful of good games against shit teams like Wakefield and suddenly a sizeable few were enchanted by him. His 2019 was awful culminating in a series of vanishing acts against the big boys. He is totally underwhelming and wont be missed one iota.
    I seem to remember Ashworth and Lees worked in tandem to destroy the Wigoon pack a few years ago, they were mates and were feeding off each other. Sadly that didn't develop into something better and I don't know what went wrong with Ashworth's attitude after that.

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    One stand out moment for Ashworth was him getting right under the skin of Ratboy against Catalan.


    I think off field issues have ultimately taken its toll on him. He has had little game time and the time he has had , he hasnt performed well enough.

    Time to box him and his *alleged* troubles up and ship him off to pastures new.

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    Saints have just tweeted this:

    https://twitter.com/Saints1890/statu...016235521?s=20

    Extension for Knowles maybe? He made his debut in 2015.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    Saints have just tweeted this:

    https://twitter.com/Saints1890/statu...016235521?s=20

    Extension for Knowles maybe? He made his debut in 2015.
    Fingers crossed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    Saints have just tweeted this:

    https://twitter.com/Saints1890/statu...016235521?s=20

    Extension for Knowles maybe? He made his debut in 2015.
    Would it be a a worry that it’s only a 2 year deal if Knowles..

    I like the maybe after your Thompson/Roby hiccup!

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    Quote Originally Posted by reliable sauce View Post
    Would it be a a worry that it’s only a 2 year deal if Knowles..

    I like the maybe after your Thompson/Roby hiccup!
    Haha no hiccup, I was just repeating what I'd seen Blobbynator tweet!
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  13. #138
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    Wouldn’t it just be a one year extension? His deal ends next year, I thought.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    Wouldn’t it just be a one year extension? His deal ends next year, I thought.
    Yeah it does, so it would be a 1 year extension to his current deal.
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    Confirmed. Morgan Knowles new deal til end of 2022.

    https://www.saintsrlfc.com/2020/11/0...her-two-years/
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    Fully expect him to be off to the NRL at the end of that deal if he carries on the trajectory he’s been on the last couple of years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    Fully expect him to be off to the NRL at the end of that deal if he carries on the trajectory he’s been on the last couple of years.
    Yes - along with Bentley

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    Yes - along with Bentley
    do you think they have all round game to succeed there?

    I rate both neither are great runners or handlers of the ball are they?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JB1973 View Post
    do you think they have all round game to succeed there?

    I rate both neither are great runners or handlers of the ball are they?
    They would need to improve their games, Knowles misses quite a few tackles, in comparison both he and Roby have made 533 tackles, Roby has missed 5 tackles Knowles has missed 60 tackles. Bentley too many penalties top of the penalty charts last time I looked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    Fully expect him to be off to the NRL at the end of that deal if he carries on the trajectory he’s been on the last couple of years.
    I think he's a great player, but I think this season has been a bit of a dip for him compared to the last 2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    I think he's a great player, but I think this season has been a bit of a dip for him compared to the last 2.
    You're right but to be fair I think most of our team have dipped slightly from last year.

    Apart from Bentley (and possibly Walmsley) I don't think any of our squad have been better than they were in 2019 unfortunately.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB1973 View Post
    do you think they have all round game to succeed there?

    I rate both neither are great runners or handlers of the ball are they?
    Bentley doesn't seem big enough for NRL but maybe he's deceiving?


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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkieTalkie View Post
    Bentley doesn't seem big enough for NRL but maybe he's deceiving?


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    Similar stature to John Bateman hence the comparisons

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    Quote Originally Posted by St Willy View Post
    Similar stature to John Bateman hence the comparisons

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    Fair enough. Bentley seems to be a tackling machine rather than using much of the ball, less so than Bateman I'm supposing. He would have to be complemented in a team to maintain his value.


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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkieTalkie View Post
    Fair enough. Bentley seems to be a tackling machine rather than using much of the ball, less so than Bateman I'm supposing. He would have to be complemented in a team to maintain his value.


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    Agree with that. He could do with tackling less, less penalties and getting his hands on the ball more

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