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Thread: Super league update - Covid 19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallaght Tiger View Post
    Any percentage has to be an equal number of games played for every team, that is how percentages work it is the same baseline for all to form the 100%, therefore allowing for fluctuations.
    But if everyone had played the same number, or were going to play the same number we’d just use the league table surely. The only reason to use the win percentage is because it won’t be equal. I agree that draws could be problematic if they occur, because will they be ignored or will they count as half a win? 4 wins and 1 draw from 5 games gives you 9 points from 10. Would that be rated as 90% wins or just 80%. If draws cease to be worth anything it would be a farce for any game to end up as one because both teams effectively lose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zippy View Post
    So now Catalan play less games, go top and will go into the play offs with a fitter team.
    They've said that you must complete a minimum of 15 games

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    I for one have enjoyed Saints 'new normal' playing style, and I've always tended to strip the sport back to it's basic aim...to beat whichever team you're playing at the time.
    No talk of scrapping anything please! Let's just enjoy each game as it happens.
    League tables and trophies are a bonus IMO.
    Agreed

    Saints playing so well in these crazy times has been an absolute godsend and I look forward to each game now just as much as when I was a kid.

    Although not ideal, I think it's the right decision as at least we now have some clarity.
    Similar situations are going to affect other sports in the coming months and it'll be interesting to see how they deal with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    But if everyone had played the same number, or were going to play the same number we’d just use the league table surely. The only reason to use the win percentage is because it won’t be equal. I agree that draws could be problematic if they occur, because will they be ignored or will they count as half a win? 4 wins and 1 draw from 5 games gives you 9 points from 10. Would that be rated as 90% wins or just 80%. If draws cease to be worth anything it would be a farce for any game to end up as one because both teams effectively lose.
    Have we scrapped 'golden point'?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    But if everyone had played the same number, or were going to play the same number wed just use the league table surely. The only reason to use the win percentage is because it wont be equal. I agree that draws could be problematic if they occur, because will they be ignored or will they count as half a win? 4 wins and 1 draw from 5 games gives you 9 points from 10. Would that be rated as 90% wins or just 80%. If draws cease to be worth anything it would be a farce for any game to end up as one because both teams effectively lose.
    Gray, I think you are the same vintage as myself, we all studied under the same curriculum set by the then JMB, we were taught if you want to change a percentage change the constant, it will either highlight the peaks or iron out the troughs, depending on what you wish to use.
    The RL are saying all teams should have played 15 games (though this may change), how can a team playing seven matches with less points top a table and maintain that percentage by not playing. The reason a points system and difference was used was to prevent this biased result based on too few test numbers.
    Why not play a round robin format as the league stands now surely that would give a more reasoned result.

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    In The South Stand saintgeorge's Avatar
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    I just think they maybe have been a bit premature - perhaps this way of doing things was inevitable - but surely this should have been introduced when the current plan had failed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    Have we scrapped 'golden point'?
    They should. I never liked it anyway. With games coming thick and fast I think they should look at getting rid of extra time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    I just think they maybe have been a bit premature - perhaps this way of doing things was inevitable - but surely this should have been introduced when the current plan had failed?
    Maybe, but you can guarantee that had they done that everyone would have kicked off for it not being sorted earlier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    Have we scrapped 'golden point'?
    You can still draw if nobody scores

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    I just think they maybe have been a bit premature - perhaps this way of doing things was inevitable - but surely this should have been introduced when the current plan had failed?

    I think it's good to bring some clarity.

    My only criticism is that they should still base the current league table on points - because if we are able to finish the full programme, this is all that would be required - but with the win percentage in an additional column, which would only kick-in should the season be forced to end early and teams have played a different number of games.

    Just hope that sloppy, lethargic loss to Huddersfield before the lockdown doesn't come back to bite us.
    I f*cking hate wi*an. And rugby yawnion. And Tories. And Brexit f*ckwits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallaght Tiger View Post
    The RL are saying all teams should have played 15 games (though this may change), how can a team playing seven matches with less points top a table and maintain that percentage by not playing. The reason a points system and difference was used was to prevent this biased result based on too few test numbers.
    But they can only top the table for so long. If and when they can’t actually fulfill 15 games they’d be screwed, so I wouldn’t worry about it.

    The question would be, if the season had to finish right now and we went straight to the play offs would you think the team with 5 wins and 2 defeats be more deserving of a place than say (for example) a team with 6 wins and 4 losses?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    My only criticism is that they should still base the current league table on points - because if we are able to finish the full programme, this is all that would be required - but with the win percentage in an additional column, which would only kick-in should the season be forced to end early and teams have played a different number of games.
    I think that’s a great idea actually, just let the win percentage hang there as an incentive so teams know the score if the season ended unexpectedly.

    It was always the argument in football if a team had a few games in hand ... would you prefer the points in the bag or the games in hand, and this system kind of assumes that the team with the games in hand will win them whereas the teams that have the points on the board are worse off. A 7-3 record is probably better than 5-2 really, because Cats need to win three on the bounce to better it. In any normal season you’d take our record over theirs I reckon, but now we’re deemed to have a worse record.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    But they can only top the table for so long. If and when they can’t actually fulfill 15 games they’d be screwed, so I wouldn’t worry about it.

    The question would be, if the season had to finish right now and we went straight to the play offs would you think the team with 5 wins and 2 defeats be more deserving of a place than say (for example) a team with 6 wins and 4 losses?
    That is the point Gray one team has played 7 games the other 10, that cannot be a measure!! the two could have equal % at 7 games.
    You are being penalised for competing, that can never be a competitive solution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallaght Tiger View Post
    That is the point Gray one team has played 7 games the other 10, that cannot be a measure!! the two could have equal % at 7 games.
    You are being penalised for competing, that can never be a competitive solution.
    I get what you’re saying, and as I said above, I’d rather have our 7-3 record than their 5-2 record, because there is no way of knowing if they’d win their games in hand to end up with 7 wins or better after ten games. I suppose though with the weird stuff going on that we can write off a certain amount of this and see that the idea is based in logic and an attempt at fairness because Catalans are behind everyone else through no fault of their own.

    I think the idea is sound in these circumstances because I’d hate to see Catalans or anyone else miss the four through no fault of their own. You could end up with a side not being able to play their games and ending up (for example) with 12 wins and 4 losses missing out to a side that played their quota and ended up with 13 wins and 9 losses. It would be clear who the better team was, but a league table would show one on 24 points and the other on 26.

    But I agree with Webbo above that the Pct. should only count if and when the season ended with an unequal amount of games played, and not at this stage. Given that the league have said everyone has to play 15 games to meet the criteria it seems that that would be a good time to implement it, with the Pct. simply being there in the background until then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    But I agree with Webbo above that the Pct. should only count if and when the season ended with an unequal amount of games played, and not at this stage. Given that the league have said everyone has to play 15 games to meet the criteria it seems that that would be a good time to implement it, with the Pct. simply being there in the background until then.
    I'm pretty sure that's the case. The percentage is just a safeguard in case teams can't play all 20 games. Cats are already 3 behind and any more positive cases and subsequent postponements, for any team, will just make it harder to fit in the full set of fixtures.

    If everybody does manage to get all their games played then I'm sure it will go on points accrued as normal.

    Issue is, in the case of Catalans, there is no incentive now to try and rearrange those missing games - as long as they get 15 in and their percentage is in the top 4, they will be in the playoffs. Should they need more points or more games to get up to 15 played, I'd imagine them going all out to try and arrange games they should win and not Wigan or Wire away for example
    "Never write off the Saints!!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by MachineGunFunk View Post
    Issue is, in the case of Catalans, there is no incentive now to try and rearrange those missing games - as long as they get 15 in and their percentage is in the top 4, they will be in the playoffs. Should they need more points or more games to get up to 15 played, I'd imagine them going all out to try and arrange games they should win and not Wigan or Wire away for example


    That’s a good point. I suppose that there could be skulduggery between teams postponing a game if it was mutually beneficial also......


    However I don’t see Catalans as too much of a challenge, I still anticipate their typical late season disappearing act.


    Wigan and Wire are still the closest contenders in my book, with a resurgent Leeds in distant 4th
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    I get what you’re saying, and as I said above, I’d rather have our 7-3 record than their 5-2 record, because there is no way of knowing if they’d win their games in hand to end up with 7 wins or better after ten games. I suppose though with the weird stuff going on that we can write off a certain amount of this and see that the idea is based in logic and an attempt at fairness because Catalans are behind everyone else through no fault of their own.

    I think the idea is sound in these circumstances because I’d hate to see Catalans or anyone else miss the four through no fault of their own. You could end up with a side not being able to play their games and ending up (for example) with 12 wins and 4 losses missing out to a side that played their quota and ended up with 13 wins and 9 losses. It would be clear who the better team was, but a league table would show one on 24 points and the other on 26.

    But I agree with Webbo above that the Pct. should only count if and when the season ended with an unequal amount of games played, and not at this stage. Given that the league have said everyone has to play 15 games to meet the criteria it seems that that would be a good time to implement it, with the Pct. simply being there in the background until then.
    This way Fergie would never have said "squeaky bum time" and remember Monie`s "Mission Impossible" was that the season they did us on points difference? We all accepted that was they way it goes despite us doing them and having a far superior for and against in our two league games with them. Widnes also had a same win / play ratio a year before despite having lost more, this % is on win / play.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MachineGunFunk View Post

    Issue is, in the case of Catalans, there is no incentive now to try and rearrange those missing games - as long as they get 15 in and their percentage is in the top 4, they will be in the playoffs. Should they need more points or more games to get up to 15 played, I'd imagine them going all out to try and arrange games they should win and not Wigan or Wire away for example

    When checking who the Cats have played so far that did cross my mind, they have not exactly played the top consistent clubs in Wigan, Warrington and lost heavily to the Saints. They may see the odd opportunity to use the situation to go AWOL in arranging a game crying off as a victim of circumstance.

    We could have a scenario for instance that Saints could have 5 more wins and 10 points clear of the Catalans who have played 5 games less and yet could top the league win the League Leaders Shield and have the advantage of going into the Grand Final, I don't have a problem with the % rule based on 2 or 3 games less but 5 games or more is too big (25%) an advantage if the quality of opposition played is unbalanced.

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    We are in a better position really. If Catalans lose to Wigan they are back in 4th already, level with Leeds. Their position at the top is very fragile and based on them not playing many games, and playing them against weaker opposition in the main. Even if we only won 3 of our next 5 it would put us on 10 wins from 15 (when the criteria limit kicks in) which given our points difference would mean Catalans need to win 6 of their next 8 to be ahead of us after they’d played 15 as well. I don’t see that happening unless they end up playing the vast majority of their games at home, which still may happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    We are in a better position really. If Catalans lose to Wigan they are back in 4th already, level with Leeds. Their position at the top is very fragile and based on them not playing many games, and playing them against weaker opposition in the main. Even if we only won 3 of our next 5 it would put us on 10 wins from 15 (when the criteria limit kicks in) which given our points difference would mean Catalans need to win 6 of their next 8 to be ahead of us after they’d played 15 as well. I don’t see that happening unless they end up playing the vast majority of their games at home, which still may happen.
    I think your points are correct. I'm not sure why people are getting upset and thinking that everything will be skewed. I think that at least we know what the system is, every game matters, and we are getting to watch a lot of rugby and have a team playing well. With regard to teams deliberately postponing games to keep up their percentage, we will have to wait and see if that happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Meninga View Post
    If Superleague are going to use percentage wins to determine league position, then surely the Toronto games should be included?
    Valid point........
    "The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom." Danny Blanchflower.
    Might have been written by a footballer about football - but never a truer word............

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    Default Super league update - Covid 19

    Not sure why there are conspiracy theories about this. Firstly a team can only call a game off with 7 positive tests and to provide proof of this to the RFL.

    Secondly, the less games they play, the less money they receive from the tv deal.


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    I can see why the percentage system has been introduced but that makes no allowance for WHICH opponents teams have faced thus far. Then if a team only completes 15 rounds then surely that factor would be important but would not affect the outcome!

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    Without sounding arrogant, from what I've seen since it restart, they can use any format they like and we will still win it.

    I've not seen anything from any other team to suggest they can match us on our day.

    If we keep healthy and focused, no one is getting close to us

    (get ready for a defeat tomorrow now )

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    Quote Originally Posted by snellinmo View Post
    I can see why the percentage system has been introduced but that makes no allowance for WHICH opponents teams have faced thus far. Then if a team only completes 15 rounds then surely that factor would be important but would not affect the outcome!
    Of course, but what else can they do in the circumstances?

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