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Thread: Your Take KRISTIAN WOOLF after 10 games.

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    Default Your Take KRISTIAN WOOLF after 10 games.

    I think Woolf deserves another thread and review away from the original "Your Take KRISTIAN WOOLF after 5 games." Since the lockdown he looks a lot more relaxed in his approach to the game, his body language suggests he has got to grips with the way the Saints want to play.

    We had injuries in his first 5 games but we have also had injuries in our 5 post lock down games but our approach is completely different, has Jammer took some pressure of him as we now have a player coach on the field.

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    Still early on to be making any real judgements. The Wire cup game will tell us a bit more. I’ve no complaints about him he comes across very well and he was on a bit of a hiding to nothing following Holbrook. Jammer has undoubtedly been a massive signing for the club in more ways than one. He has taken a bit of pressure off Woolf and has become the real leader of the group and is very passionate which is rubbing off on the younger players.

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    I believe we'd be on the brink of binning him if Jammer hadn't arrived. Before the break he clearly hadn't bought into the club, didn't know the players or preferred style of playing, perhaps not used to fans involvement if he cared to read the forums & listen to the rumblings, wanted to impose his style of play onto the players. The players didn't buy into him or his playing ethos & I believe he lost the dressing room as the saying goes.

    Jammer has driven the change & cemented the dressing room and to be fair, even though I'm still sure it's not his preferred style of play in support of where I believe his skills lie, he's running with it.

    He's been very lucky with the change in circumstances and I sincerely hope he continues on this path.


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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkieTalkie View Post
    I believe we'd be on the brink of binning him if Jammer hadn't arrived. Before the break he clearly hadn't bought into the club, didn't know the players or preferred style of playing, perhaps not used to fans involvement if he cared to read the forums & listen to the rumblings, wanted to impose his style of play onto the players. The players didn't buy into him or his playing ethos & I believe he lost the dressing room as the saying goes.

    Jammer has driven the change & cemented the dressing room and to be fair, even though I'm still sure it's not his preferred style of play in support of where I believe his skills lie, he's running with it.

    He's been very lucky with the change in circumstances and I sincerely hope he continues on this path.


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    I think that's a load of rubbish personally.

    The difference between pre lockdown and post lockdown are a few things.

    1). We had more injuries to key players pre lockdown and players coming back from long term injuries which affected their pre season. Coote in particular was a big loss for us. He links the attack together and without him, you notice a big difference in our attacking structure and ability to get the ball to our three quarters.

    2). All our efforts were focussed on the WCC and as a result our league form suffered.

    The break due to Covid was the best thing that could've happened to us. It allowed us to take a breather and for players to recover from injury. We look a different team since.

    Still too early to judge Woolf but there are some changes that I've noticed compared to Holbrook.

    Defence - this is stronger and much more ruthless than it was under Holbrook. You can see there has been a big emphasis on restricting teams points and it's why we have won our 5 games since the restart. 30pts conceded in 5 games is outstanding, we won't lose many with efforts like that. It must be demoralising for our opponents facing our defence.

    Attack - we are much more forward based relying on power down the middle with offloads. You could say we play a more conservative style under Woolf which has worked so far and it certainly plays to our strengths. The worry I have is will that style work against stronger defences? We'll have to see but so far so good.
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    After the defeat to Cas before the lock down i thought Mr Woolf was in big trouble, we looked a side devoid of idea's and his style of rugby was awful to watch. Then we come back after covid break and we look a different team, yes we had injuries like we have now but he's changed the way were playing now and is a joy to watch. I think somebody upstairs has had a word in his ear and thats what brought on the change. Keep it up Mr Woolf.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rommel View Post
    After the defeat to Cas before the lock down i thought Mr Woolf was in big trouble, we looked a side devoid of idea's and his style of rugby was awful to watch. Then we come back after covid break and we look a different team, yes we had injuries like we have now but he's changed the way were playing now and is a joy to watch. I think somebody upstairs has had a word in his ear and thats what brought on the change. Keep it up Mr Woolf.
    Same here, something must have happened during lockdown to make a different approach instead of the one man rugby and the sense that the players were doing too much with very little gain. What's remarkable though is that the change was done in a space of 2 weeks training when lockdown was cleared, or maybe the change of no scrums the Saints adapted more quickly and used their mobility as an advantage to play expansively which was already in the memory banks from the previous season.

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    At the moment I would say we are a team to be so proud of in terms of fitness, our defence, our overall attitude to every game and our strength in depth with an enviable crop of youngsters still to develop. But we need to beat Warrington and Wigan in a couple of weeks to really make a statement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Same here, something must have happened during lockdown to make a different approach instead of the one man rugby and the sense that the players were doing too much with very little gain. What's remarkable though is that the change was done in a space of 2 weeks training when lockdown was cleared, or maybe the change of no scrums the Saints adapted more quickly and used their mobility as an advantage to play expansively which was already in the memory banks from the previous season.
    It happened over 2 weeks because the players switched back onside having not played for him is my belief, as I've said further up. Nothing to do with injuries that's a soft get out for him. His tactics were dire as was his game management and the players downed tools.


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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkieTalkie View Post
    It happened over 2 weeks because the players switched back onside having not played for him is my belief, as I've said further up. Nothing to do with injuries that's a soft get out for him. His tactics were dire as was his game management and the players downed tools.


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    I just dont buy into the notion that the tactics being dire or that the players werent playing for him. We were great against Salford and Hull and not far off beating the NRL champions. We got stung at Wire against the second best team but there were mitigating circumstances - losing Coote, Walmesley and Percival - and we were poor against Huddersfield and Cas. Historically every team struggles after the WCC and we were no exception. Youve got to give the coach credit for the way weve played since the restart though. Weve set the bar for the rest to follow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    I think that's a load of rubbish personally.

    The difference between pre lockdown and post lockdown are a few things.

    1). We had more injuries to key players pre lockdown and players coming back from long term injuries which affected their pre season. Coote in particular was a big loss for us. He links the attack together and without him, you notice a big difference in our attacking structure and ability to get the ball to our three quarters.

    2). All our efforts were focussed on the WCC and as a result our league form suffered.

    The break due to Covid was the best thing that could've happened to us. It allowed us to take a breather and for players to recover from injury. We look a different team since.

    Still too early to judge Woolf but there are some changes that I've noticed compared to Holbrook.

    Defence - this is stronger and much more ruthless than it was under Holbrook. You can see there has been a big emphasis on restricting teams points and it's why we have won our 5 games since the restart. 30pts conceded in 5 games is outstanding, we won't lose many with efforts like that. It must be demoralising for our opponents facing our defence.

    Attack - we are much more forward based relying on power down the middle with offloads. You could say we play a more conservative style under Woolf which has worked so far and it certainly plays to our strengths. The worry I have is will that style work against stronger defences? We'll have to see but so far so good.

    Cracking post - and agree with almost everything.

    I also think that Woolf wanted to keep things tight early season because he knew full well the impact of the WCC on players' performances, and also the heavier ground that characterises the increasingly early season. He didn't want us trying the more champagne-style attacking rugby (especially when we were on a high after the GF win and perhaps needed to keep our feet on the ground) and coming unstuck, which could impact our confidence levels if we tried to play like last season but suffered a few losses.

    I know there were some rumblings about some players not taking to his defensive/wrestling coaching, but it seems that was just to add further to defensive techniques (again, in that early-season period) rather than becoming the overriding tactic, as we've seen none of the holding down but very effective tackling and overall defence.

    Like you say, still too early to make a full judgment - and there's a couple of big tests coming up - but I'm filled with optimism that he'll deliver.
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    I sense this will merely end up being the same debate we've had on here about him before.

    I'm sticking to what I've said on here before, and I'm not sure we'd be rolling into September as confident and strong as we are now had the season played out as normal and this were play-off time. But it's completely irrelevant and entirely pointless now for me to talk about some counter-factual 'what ifs' based on stuff that didn't end up happening. The break happened, we look like the team to beat again and the fella is doing a good job, which is all that really matters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    I sense this will merely end up being the same debate we've had on here about him before.

    I'm sticking to what I've said on here before, and I'm not sure we'd be rolling into September as confident and strong as we are now had the season played out as normal and this were play-off time. But it's completely irrelevant and entirely pointless now for me to talk about some counter-factual 'what ifs' based on stuff that didn't end up happening. The break happened, we look like the team to beat again and the fella is doing a good job, which is all that really matters.
    Fair points, big tests to come of course.


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    Never in doubt he is a top class coach. Fullstop end of.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Don View Post
    Never in doubt he is a top class coach. Fullstop end of.
    I've never doubted he was a very talented coach either mate, but that was never my concern.

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    If the rumours about the players not being happy with his approach to defence were true (I never believe the stuff I read in the back of a defeat so not sure myself) then they must feel a little silly given our defence looks brutal.

    Hes a top coach no doubt. I think we have very strong foundations and the rest will get better as the season(s) roll on.

    Put it this way - Im more comfortable at the thought of getting dragged into a Wire arm wrestle in a big game than I would have been before.

    I think we have it in us to win all sorts of different ways with the defence we have this year. Proof will be in the eating but we look pretty formidable.


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    [QUOTE=FearTheVee;797883]If the rumours about the players not being happy with his approach to defence were true (I never believe the stuff I read in the back of a defeat so not sure myself) then they must feel a little silly given our defence looks brutal.

    He’s a top coach no doubt. I think we have very strong foundations and the rest will get better as the season(s) roll on.

    Put it this way - I’m more comfortable at the thought of getting dragged into a Wire arm wrestle in a big game than I would have been before.

    I think we have it in us to win all sorts of different ways with the defence we have this year. Proof will be in the eating but we look pretty formidable.
    QUOTE]


    As you say FearTheVee the proof is in the eating.
    We`re still not ruthless in the middle though, we need an enforcer to put the opposition on their guard at this time of year.
    A Sonny or Scully someone who will mix it but can play, for all Barrie Mac`s toughness it was not until Leeds signed JP that they started to have a bit of steel, that 10-8 loss in the first semi 2007 gave them belief that we were there for the taking if Scully was not playing, a 6-33 reversal being the result.
    I don`t think Wire have that either but they are skillful, Wigan can mix it even without O`Loughlin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    If the rumours about the players not being happy with his approach to defence were true (I never believe the stuff I read in the back of a defeat so not sure myself) then they must feel a little silly given our defence looks brutal.

    He’s a top coach no doubt. I think we have very strong foundations and the rest will get better as the season(s) roll on.

    Put it this way - I’m more comfortable at the thought of getting dragged into a Wire arm wrestle in a big game than I would have been before.

    I think we have it in us to win all sorts of different ways with the defence we have this year. Proof will be in the eating but we look pretty formidable.


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    I wouldn't mind a wire arm wrestle at all now, with Jammer in the team, the way Big Al is playing and the improvement in Amor.

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    Agree Kyle has seriously upped his game.
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    Its a Shame Kyle Could not as you say Up his Game in the Last two Seasons. not a Fan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by owl saint View Post
    Its a Shame Kyle Could not as you say Up his Game in the Last two Seasons. not a Fan.




    I think he upped his game in the 2018 season, especially from when Walmsley broke his neck, and has been good since. Was impressed with how each one of the props stepped into the breach. Amor's been an enigma for a lot of his time here - great one season, pants the next, and was rubbish for much of Cunningham's unhappy time as coach - but I can't criticise his performances these past 2 and half seasons.
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    Quote Originally Posted by owl saint View Post
    Its a Shame Kyle Could not as you say Up his Game in the Last two Seasons. not a Fan.
    Cunningham didn't do him any favours having him play a simple middles game, by the time Holbrook took over he couldn't get a start preferring Matty Lees instead. Amor took his chance when it was offered, got back on the horse and now contributes a lot to our game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Cunningham didn't do him any favours having him play a simple middles game, by the time Holbrook took over he couldn't get a start preferring Matty Lees instead. Amor took his chance when it was offered, got back on the horse and now contributes a lot to our game.
    Cunningham didn't do a lot of players any favours, but Amor has improved out of sight since he left.

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    Our forwards all really suffered during the KC years. They were constantly running into gang tackles because defences knew they didn't have to worry about us shifting the ball wide.

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    I thought Amor’s form really picked up about halfway through last season and he’s been good enough to keep it going which has been brilliant to see. I think the rule change has suited him as well and he’s been able to use his footwork on the back of that. He was the clubs Player of the Year in 2016 and he was named in the wider England squad in 2017 prior to the World Cup but for one reason or another following that he struggled for some consistency and kept missing out on the 17 when we made the play-off’s. As has been said though he’s been playing really well for a while now.

    Think he’s been unlucky not to claim any Man of Steel points since the restart.
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