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Thread: 21 man squad v Hull KR

  1. #101
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    I think Woolf is a disgrace for not throwing in some kids when no coaches were available for two weeks, imbecile


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    Defending well takes cohesion, communication, organisation, call it what you will. Its a sign of good coaching.

    When hes had a fit side weve drubbed/nilled everyone weve come across, playing some fantastic stuff along the way. The rugby we played against Catalans and Leeds was every bit as good as under Holbrook. We didnt look as together today, but we started without our two best outside backs (who are also the two people we rely on most to get our sets started) and our loose forward and then lost our half back and two back rowers. We did pretty well in the circumstances, I think.

    I do find some of his choices a bit odd with the younger players - I would have liked to have seen Simm ahead of Costello today and I wouldnt have picked Welsby on the wing. But the truth is none of us knows if Simm is anywhere near ready and Welsby had a decent game.
    Some nice offloads from Welsby as well as taking the tries well. No qualms with that and a much more accomplished performance compared to Costello, whom I would have preferred was left out for Simm but this is what the coaching team is paid to assess. Will be interesting to see if we see Dodd next week or if Welsby is moved into a spine position in Fages absence.

    Dont think any criticism of the team or Woolf is fair today. It perhaps wasnt to 50 we were expecting, and they probably didnt help with that (as they could/ should have been 20 up in the first 20 minutes) which is also contributing to the frustration, but we saw the affect self isolation had on Salford, and with HKR having nothing to lose, and their chairman stepping down int he week, it could have easily been a perfect storm

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    Costello should be playing for the likes of Rochdale. Fages injury might not be too bad listening to Wolf's interview.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    I think Woolf is a disgrace for not throwing in some kids when no coaches were available for two weeks, imbecile


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    I think you are wrong. If the coaches are not able to coach and it's left to the senior pros then you want the more experienced players as it's less disruption. The kids will have their time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brook View Post
    I think you are wrong. If the coaches are not able to coach and it's left to the senior pros then you want the more experienced players as it's less disruption. The kids will have their time.
    Under those circumstances I can understand why he went with slightly more experienced players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brook View Post
    I think you are wrong. If the coaches are not able to coach and it's left to the senior pros then you want the more experienced players as it's less disruption. The kids will have their time.
    I think he was being sarcastic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barry View Post
    I think he was being sarcastic.

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    Yeah i get that now i've re read it.

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    [QUOTE=brook;797239]I think you are wrong. If the coaches are not able to coach and it's left to the senior pros then you want the more experienced players as it's less disruption. The kids will have their chance

    You're spot on.

    Apologies, the sarcasm has just gone straight over my head!
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    I'm refusing to acknowledge the sarcasm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    I'd be looking at giving Welsby a go at half back. It's his position and now is his chance to shine.

    I'd have Naiqama, Peyroux, Simm and Grace across the back line.

    Bentley is offering too much in the second row now to be shifted. He's a tackling machine.

    I just don't see it with Welsby. He may mature & come good, but at present he's too slow, ponderous and timid - especially too slow/ponderous to play in the backs. I can't get past the thought that he's another in a long line of players who were big for their age and looked good but, when they start playing against full-grown men and their peers catch up, the advantage they had evaporates and they struggle.

    I want to see Dodd get a go. We could have a top quality talent on our hands and only some time in the first team will show whether he has that certain something that top tier players have. I don't expect some MoM display and him tearing it up, just the odd flash of true talent that makes you think "this kid could make it bigtime". I remember Long's first match for us against Cronulla. He struggled for a lot of the game, but showed glimpses of something special. As he gained experience and got more used to his teammates and SL, those glimpses became more and more frequent. I just hope fans have patience with Dodd - if he gets a chance.

    I've actually no problem in Costello stepping into Percival's shoes to cover injury. He won't rip the opposition to shreds, but he's fine as a reserve and looks steady, capable and not scared to mix it. I just want Simm to get a go, like the situation with Dodd, to see if he has a little specialness about him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    I just don't see it with Welsby. He may mature & come good, but at present he's too slow, ponderous and timid - especially too slow/ponderous to play in the backs. I can't get past the thought that he's another in a long line of players who were big for their age and looked good but, when they start playing against full-grown men and their peers catch up, the advantage they had evaporates and they struggle.

    I want to see Dodd get a go. We could have a top quality talent on our hands and only some time in the first team will show whether he has that certain something that top tier players have. I don't expect some MoM display and him tearing it up, just the odd flash of true talent that makes you think "this kid could make it bigtime". I remember Long's first match for us against Cronulla. He struggled for a lot of the game, but showed glimpses of something special. As he gained experience and got more used to his teammates and SL, those glimpses became more and more frequent. I just hope fans have patience with Dodd - if he gets a chance.

    I've actually no problem in Costello stepping into Percival's shoes to cover injury. He won't rip the opposition to shreds, but he's fine as a reserve and looks steady, capable and not scared to mix it. I just want Simm to get a go, like the situation with Dodd, to see if he has a little specialness about him.
    The way he brings the ball out on kick returns is bad to watch,he was slowing down into the tackle and just accepting it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    I just don't see it with Welsby. He may mature & come good, but at present he's too slow, ponderous and timid - especially too slow/ponderous to play in the backs. I can't get past the thought that he's another in a long line of players who were big for their age and looked good but, when they start playing against full-grown men and their peers catch up, the advantage they had evaporates and they struggle.

    I want to see Dodd get a go. We could have a top quality talent on our hands and only some time in the first team will show whether he has that certain something that top tier players have. I don't expect some MoM display and him tearing it up, just the odd flash of true talent that makes you think "this kid could make it bigtime". I remember Long's first match for us against Cronulla. He struggled for a lot of the game, but showed glimpses of something special. As he gained experience and got more used to his teammates and SL, those glimpses became more and more frequent. I just hope fans have patience with Dodd - if he gets a chance.

    I've actually no problem in Costello stepping into Percival's shoes to cover injury. He won't rip the opposition to shreds, but he's fine as a reserve and looks steady, capable and not scared to mix it. I just want Simm to get a go, like the situation with Dodd, to see if he has a little specialness about him.
    I could have written this word for word myself & I have in parts in other threads, spot on.


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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    The squad is imbalanced with forwards. We still have Batchelor, Paulo and Ashworth to come in for the forwards but are very thin on the ground with three quarters.
    I commented last season when all our our first team are fit (fully fit) we have a very good side : But God help us if we have a few injuries , but as per some wise-arse shot me down . Saying how good our reserves were .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    I just don't see it with Welsby. He may mature & come good, but at present he's too slow, ponderous and timid - especially too slow/ponderous to play in the backs. I can't get past the thought that he's another in a long line of players who were big for their age and looked good but, when they start playing against full-grown men and their peers catch up, the advantage they had evaporates and they struggle.

    I want to see Dodd get a go. We could have a top quality talent on our hands and only some time in the first team will show whether he has that certain something that top tier players have. I don't expect some MoM display and him tearing it up, just the odd flash of true talent that makes you think "this kid could make it bigtime". I remember Long's first match for us against Cronulla. He struggled for a lot of the game, but showed glimpses of something special. As he gained experience and got more used to his teammates and SL, those glimpses became more and more frequent. I just hope fans have patience with Dodd - if he gets a chance.

    I've actually no problem in Costello stepping into Percival's shoes to cover injury. He won't rip the opposition to shreds, but he's fine as a reserve and looks steady, capable and not scared to mix it. I just want Simm to get a go, like the situation with Dodd, to see if he has a little specialness about him.
    Good post mon ami .

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    I wouldn't be quick to write Welsby off just yet. He's s young lad that has played in practically every position in the backline. Lomax and Wellens had similar starts to their careers when they were breaking through. Lomax especially was playing everywhere - I remember he came on at hooker on his debut and then played centre and on the wing for many of his early games. The experience will do him good and he will slowly start to get to grips with the speed of the game. The way he plays the ball is very slow a strange though. Wellens used to be a bit like that but eventually adapted and learned to play the game quicker.

    I'd like to see Dodd given a go next week at 7 if Fages is injured but again let's not pile the pressure on him. Fages is an underrated player especially in defence and will be difficult to cover if he misses out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    I wouldn't be quick to write Welsby off just yet. He's s young lad that has played in practically every position in the backline. Lomax and Wellens had similar starts to their careers when they were breaking through. Lomax especially was playing everywhere - I remember he came on at hooker on his debut and then played centre and on the wing for many of his early games. The experience will do him good and he will slowly start to get to grips with the speed of the game. The way he plays the ball is very slow a strange though. Wellens used to be a bit like that but eventually adapted and learned to play the game quicker.

    I'd like to see Dodd given a go next week at 7 if Fages is injured but again let's not pile the pressure on him. Fages is an underrated player especially in defence and will be difficult to cover if he misses out.
    I was saying the same last night about Fages. People don't always realise his value.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fonsboy View Post
    I commented last season when all our our first team are fit (fully fit) we have a very good side : But God help us if we have a few injuries , but as per some wise-arse shot me down . Saying how good our reserves were .
    Just to play devil’s advocate, we were without Makinson and Percival yesterday plus Fages for over half a game and still won fairly comfortably with 14 points. We also had no Knowles and lost Taia in the 1st half. So I think the “god help us” is probably a bit dramatic to be honest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    Just to play devil’s advocate, we were without Makinson and Percival yesterday plus Fages for over half a game and still won fairly comfortably with 14 points. We also had no Knowles and lost Taia in the 1st half. So I think the “god help us” is probably a bit dramatic to be honest.

    Rovers had 20mins where they played well, during which time we lost Fages. We cantered the whole game and won by 14 never getting out of 2nd gear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    I wouldn't be quick to write Welsby off just yet. He's s young lad that has played in practically every position in the backline. Lomax and Wellens had similar starts to their careers when they were breaking through. Lomax especially was playing everywhere - I remember he came on at hooker on his debut and then played centre and on the wing for many of his early games. The experience will do him good and he will slowly start to get to grips with the speed of the game. The way he plays the ball is very slow a strange though. Wellens used to be a bit like that but eventually adapted and learned to play the game quicker.

    I'd like to see Dodd given a go next week at 7 if Fages is injured but again let's not pile the pressure on him. Fages is an underrated player especially in defence and will be difficult to cover if he misses out.
    Its far too early to make a final judgement on Welsby after just 10 full games and having to deputise for the 4 world/international class players in our side. It looks as though he has a gait similar to Wellens and as mentioned is getting experience to the necessities of the game, I don't think we are going to get a quick play the ball from him yet ball retention is more important from him, I remember Grace after the same number of games was similar and was losing the ball on the impact tackle similar for Walmsley after that no of games trying a quick the ball but was always messing it up.

    Once he has racked up 40+ appearances we can make a better judgement, he's got a 4 year contract and I don't think the coaching team are expecting an 80 min super league standard performance..........its just not going to happen at the moment, it took Makinson, Wellens, Lomax, Makinson and Percival over 40 games to get to standard so I don't see why Welsby should be seen as any different in that game time span.

    I just hope we don't get over critical when Dodd makes a few appearances and doesn't come up to the current standard of Lomax and Fages.
    Last edited by STIDDY; 31st August 2020 at 07:46.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fonsboy View Post
    I commented last season when all our our first team are fit (fully fit) we have a very good side : But God help us if we have a few injuries , but as per some wise-arse shot me down . Saying how good our reserves were .
    We don't really have a narrow perspective of a first team we have a pretty good quality depth 24+ squad of players. When we get around to the 2 games a week for most teams I reckon that will prove that quality of depth especially when we play teams effected like for like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Its far too early to make a final judgement on Welsby after just 10 full games and having to deputise for the 4 world/international class players in our side. It looks as though he has a gait similar to Wellens and as mentioned is getting experience to the necessities of the game, I don't think we are going to get a quick play the ball from him yet ball retention is more important from him, I remember Grace after the same number of games was similar and was losing the ball on the impact tackle similar for Walmsley after that no of games trying a quick the ball but was always messing it up.

    Once he has racked up 40+ appearances we can make a better judgement, he's got a 4 year contract and I don't think the coaching team are expecting an 80 min super league standard performance..........its just not going to happen at the moment, it took Makinson, Wellens, Lomax, Makinson and Percival over 40 games to get to standard so I don't see why Welsby should be seen as any different in that game time span.

    I just hope we don't get over critical when Dodd makes a few appearances and doesn't come up to the current standard of Lomax and Fages.

    Some really great points there.
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    We look pretty healthy depth-wise in the forwards, but its a little thin in the threequarters, particularly on the wing. Id rather have that than the other way round, though.

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    I hear good things about Dodd but feel he needs to come off the bench initially and not be plunged in as a starting half-back.
    It does leave a problem if Fages is not fit, as I expect. We could leave Roby there in the short term and start Smith as Hooker. Although he is no Roby (who is?), he does a good job and looks like he could handle the extra responsibility. This would leave Dodd as a back-up for Roby or for Smith if Roby needs to spell Smith.
    Most posters would be against this but I would also, in the short term, play Bentley at Centre. He is becoming outstanding in the pack and would be missed, but we have a strong pack and quality subs without him, particularly if Peroux is fit. I feel the weakness at Centre without Percival will come back to haunt us against the top teams (as in Warrington in the Cup).
    It is too early and unfair to judge young players such as Welsby after so little experience - as the Hull KR game progressed he improved as his confidence increased.

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    If Aidan Sezer (doubtful according to Woolford) isn’t fit for the Giants game then I’d give Lewis Dodd his debut and rest Theo to make sure he’s fully recovered. If Sezer plays then still play Dodd and if he struggles then Robes can slot in at half back. Zeb shouldn’t be risked either and Dom did enough yesterday to show he’s fit enough to slot in the SR with Bentley (super player who we need to tie down to a longer contract). Knowlesy was missed yesterday so having him back will make a big difference. Overall, considering the problems with training, the changes in the back line and the disruption caused by injuries I thought Saints were never in danger of losing that game. Rovers dug in well and caused us a few problems but although Saints played in fits and starts it was enough to win the game.

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    If Fages is not fit I would start Dodd and see how he goes especially with his kicking game if its too much for him bring on Smith and put Roby at half back, Dodd will be targeted when defending but I reckon Jammer could do a protector role. Hopefully Knowles will negate the possibility of losing Tai, bit worried about Peyroux though didn't look fit was blowing and gassed after 15 mins, saying that it looked as though Matty Lees was playing back row for a spell.

    Would still keep Costello at centre he knows our defensive structure quite well and doesn't, seem overawed playing against more experienced opposition centres. I reckon Percival will be ready for our home game against Hull KR anyway I'm mid September prior to the Warrington league game.

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