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Thread: Tommy Makinson

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    I tend to lean towards it being an accident. It's like he's trying to push Watts off but the way the two are positioned, TM makes contact with his 'frank & beans'.

    What will count against TM is that his hand then looks to close around Watts' package and stays like that for a few seconds.

    What should provide some mitigation is that TM is clearly unsighted and doesn't appear to squeeze. He could claim he wasn't initially aware of what he'd grabbed and was struggling to get up with two 16 stone blokes on top of him, but let go as soon as it dawned on him what he was hold of.

    I think he'll get the full 8 games because it's become high profile. But what he's done is miles away from the way some other players have grabbed another player's plums to cause pain.

    What might be crucial is if Watts provides a statement of support to TM. This would be the sporting thing to do but I think a bit of bad blood towards Saints has developed with Cas.
    Watts has already said he wonít do that.

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    Kevin Proctor is before the judiciary now. Charge- biting. No complaint from Johnson of Sharks. Interesting

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saintgibbo View Post
    Kevin Proctor is before the judiciary now. Charge- biting. No complaint from Johnson of Sharks. Interesting
    I felt sorry for Proctor. If you are being tackled and someone puts their forearm in your mouth where else can you put your teeth?! Bite muscles can tear steak. If it was a bite their would be some evidence. I would be surprised if Johnson had so much as a bruise. You can’t stick your arm in someone’s mouth then complain that their teeth touch your skin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    Watts has already said he wonít do that.
    A Yorkshire Post interview with Watts doesn't offer much hope of that, says that Tommy is a quiet well spoken lad etc, and he apologised but he did grab him once and then again,gripping him harder, but it didn't hurt,[ in the words of Mandy Rice Davies "well he would say that wouldnt he"] He did complain to the ref immediately so it's not a case of being picked up by the touch judge. All we can hope for is that Tommy wasn't looking at what he was doing and didn't realise what he was grabbing at first, and his excellent disciplinary record

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    What I donít get in all this is why he did it? No one can say Tommy is a dirty player. It was not anything but a normal tackle between players. He was not smacked or given any grief at all. If he grabbed unsighted by mistakes, the moment he did he Would have released. He didnít. You donít grab the Crown Jewels without knowing what you are holding.
    I just donít understand why he did.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saintgibbo View Post
    Kevin Proctor is before the judiciary now. Charge- biting. No complaint from Johnson of Sharks. Interesting
    Are we still linked with him?

    He looks like he did bite him tbh, or perhaps I should say he nipped him but hell get a ban imo

    As for makinson total rush of blood to the head, daft thing to do but everyone makes mistakes. He's lucky he wasn't sent off we could well have lost that game if he had been

  7. #107
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    It's an odd one. I think in the wrestle of the tackle your hands can end up anywhere but why would he grip? Unless he's retaliating to some pain watts was inflicting. Either way it's wrong and he should be punished for it but 8 games seems harsh. No way as serious as some of the spear tackles you see that don't get anywhere near 8 games

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBT View Post
    There's no opinion here, it's fact - what he did, how long he did it for, it was no accident at all! Knew exactly what he was doing - an accident would have been him putting his hand in that area as he was fighting to get out of the tackle (no pun intended) and pulling it away immediately as soon as he felt what he felt.

    Suggest you try it in the changing room next time you go the gym or play any kind of sport, and offer the accident explanation, see what happens.
    Assuming he has told you Ď I did it intentionally Ď then . That would therefore become fact . If he hasnít , itís your opinion Is it not .

    Your suggestion is pathetic .prompting someone to be sexually perverse is worrying .

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealHarryPinner View Post
    It's an odd one. I think in the wrestle of the tackle your hands can end up anywhere but why would he grip? Unless he's retaliating to some pain watts was inflicting. Either way it's wrong and he should be punished for it but 8 games seems harsh. No way as serious as some of the spear tackles you see that don't get anywhere near 8 games
    Correct

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side Of The Moon View Post
    Assuming he has told you Ď I did it intentionally Ď then . That would therefore become fact . If he hasnít , itís your opinion Is it not .

    Your suggestion is pathetic .prompting someone to be sexually perverse is worrying .

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    Its a fact

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    I think what a lot of posters on here are missing is that the only real view shown of the incident was a slow motion closeup. At normal speed it was less than a second, not the Ďseveral secondsí being quoted.
    Tommy was out of order and should accept his punishment but those judging should do so on the facts, not the protracted slo-mo that always makes things look much worse than reality.


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    With the debate of who should replace Percival and Makinson if/when Tommy recieves a ban, it is interesting to note that when players at Saints pick up injuries the same players are moved around out of position to cover these and not many opportunities at all given to young players of those positions to come in. Over the last 2 seasons Saints have only brought in 2 young players of age 20 or below to play in 1st team games and they are Welsby with about 15ish games (too many this season when his form didn’t justify it) and Simm who has made just 1 appearance. Compare that to the Leeds v Wigan game on Sunday and Leeds started with 3 players of age 20 or below and Wigan must have had a similar number in their 17, that is just one game. The point I am trying to make is if you were a young player being sort after by a number of clubs to join the pro ranks, would you pick Saints to look after your development and gaining experience without having the bias of being from St. Helens? I,m not sure we would now be at the front of the queue. Is this because we are employing Australian head coaches who want to coach in the NRL and aren’t interested in giving young players experience?

    Josh Simm was the standout player in the NW at his age but isn’t being given a chance in his position when an opening appears and also Dodd was the standout player in the NW at his age but also not being given the experience. These two should be shown some guidance and encouragement from the coaching staff with some 1st team playing experiences and not just training day after day. There is a bigger picture here which Saints coaching staff don’t seem to be getting/interested.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shady Saint View Post
    With the debate of who should replace Percival and Makinson if/when Tommy recieves a ban, it is interesting to note that when players at Saints pick up injuries the same players are moved around out of position to cover these and not many opportunities at all given to young players of those positions to come in. Over the last 2 seasons Saints have only brought in 2 young players of age 20 or below to play in 1st team games and they are Welsby with about 15ish games (too many this season when his form didn’t justify it) and Simm who has made just 1 appearance. Compare that to the Leeds v Wigan game on Sunday and Leeds started with 3 players of age 20 or below and Wigan must have had a similar number in their 17, that is just one game. The point I am trying to make is if you were a young player being sort after by a number of clubs to join the pro ranks, would you pick Saints to look after your development and gaining experience without having the bias of being from St. Helens? I,m not sure we would now be at the front of the queue. Is this because we are employing Australian head coaches who want to coach in the NRL and aren’t interested in giving young players experience?

    Josh Simm was the standout player in the NW at his age but isn’t being given a chance in his position when an opening appears and also Dodd was the standout player in the NW at his age but also not being given the experience. These two should be shown some guidance and encouragement from the coaching staff with some 1st team playing experiences and not just training day after day. There is a bigger picture here which Saints coaching staff don’t seem to be getting/interested.

    It's a good point - but has been going on for years. I remember Cunningham being loath to play young players - the clamour for Grace and Wellington to get a chance was totally ignored. When forced to play young players, he would invariably throw them under the bus in his post-match interview (whilst ignoring some abject displays by his un-droppable buddies). He even only played Thompson sparingly (even when not having concussion issues) and played the very promising Greenwood out of position.

    I guess the club would argue that they don't give appearances out like sweets and a young player has to be very good to get their chance. They could point to Thompson, Lees, Smith, Grace who have also come through the ranks in recent years to establish themselves as regulars in the 17, along with Bentley now, and players like Ashworth and Costello who've been given opportunities but not really shone.

    My own thoughts are that the club should be giving very talented players like Simm & Dodd game time.
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  14. #114
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    I've seen a few lame excuses but there aren't any.

    It may have been out of character, but the footage is damning. I can't see how there is any chance of there not being a lengthy ban.

    Whether a ban of such magnitude is merited for that offence, is another story.

    The reality is, though, that Tommy seems to have put himself out of some big games, not least the Challenge Cup game with Warrington, and with Percy perhaps absent too, that means we are going to have real trouble in fielding a three quarter line of sufficient quality.
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    To give context, if it happened on civvy street it would fall into the lowest category for sexual assault with a High Community Order as a start point.
    Obviously if it was purely accidental then there should be no punishment at all. However it looked deliberate, and very bizarre. Put it down to a rush of blood to the “head”?

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    Default Tommy Makinson

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie McWolf View Post
    To give context, if it happened on civvy street it would fall into the lowest category for sexual assault with a High Community Order as a start point.
    Obviously if it was purely accidental then there should be no punishment at all. However it looked deliberate, and very bizarre. Put it down to a rush of blood to the “head”?
    I don’t get the “if it happened in public” argument.

    If I put a massive shot on a stranger while out walking the dog, then laid on top of them for 3-5 seconds while they struggled to get up, I dare say I’d get in trouble too.

    And if I went into the town centre and started taking conversion attempts I imagine I’d get moved along or possibly sectioned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    I don’t get the “if it happened in public” argument.

    If I put a massive shot on a stranger while out walking the dog, then laid on top of them for 3-5 seconds while they struggled to get up, I dare say I’d get in trouble too.

    And if I went into the town centre and started taking conversion attempts I imagine I’d get moved along or possibly sectioned.
    I've just had visions of someone booting balls down Church Street.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    I donít get the ďif it happened in publicĒ argument.

    If I put a massive shot on a stranger while out walking the dog, then laid on top of them for 3-5 seconds while they struggled to get up, I dare say Iíd get in trouble too.

    And if I went into the town centre and started taking conversion attempts I imagine Iíd get moved along or possibly sectioned.
    Correct. Well said

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie McWolf View Post
    To give context, if it happened on civvy street it would fall into the lowest category for sexual assault with a High Community Order as a start point.
    Obviously if it was purely accidental then there should be no punishment at all. However it looked deliberate, and very bizarre. Put it down to a rush of blood to the “head”?
    That isn't giving it context, that is taking it out of context

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie McWolf View Post
    Put it down to a rush of blood to the “head”?

    As long as Watts didn't get likewise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogger View Post
    I think what a lot of posters on here are missing is that the only real view shown of the incident was a slow motion closeup. At normal speed it was less than a second, not the ‘several seconds’ being quoted.
    Tommy was out of order and should accept his punishment but those judging should do so on the facts, not the protracted slo-mo that always makes things look much worse than reality.

    You're right. It seems like in slo-mo Makinson's hand is in contact for about 2 seconds, which would translate to about 1 second in real time. Very much within the realm of a 'I didn't realise where I was grabbing because I couldn't see and, once I did realise, I let go.' defence.

    Disappointed in Watts. If he didn't get squeezed hard, then he there's a moral argument that he should relay at least that to the tribunal.
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    It will be interesting to see what Millington gets. I'm still annoyed he didn't get sent off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    I don’t get the “if it happened in public” argument.

    If I put a massive shot on a stranger while out walking the dog, then laid on top of them for 3-5 seconds while they struggled to get up, I dare say I’d get in trouble too.

    And if I went into the town centre and started taking conversion attempts I imagine I’d get moved along or possibly sectioned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saintgibbo View Post
    Kevin Proctor is before the judiciary now. Charge- biting. No complaint from Johnson of Sharks. Interesting
    He received a 4 match ban for an F related charge.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    You're right. It seems like in slo-mo Makinson's hand is in contact for about 2 seconds, which would translate to about 1 second in real time. Very much within the realm of a 'I didn't realise where I was grabbing because I couldn't see and, once I did realise, I let go.' defence.

    Disappointed in Watts. If he didn't get squeezed hard, then he there's a moral argument that he should relay at least that to the tribunal.
    Watts was chirping at Childs as soon as he got off Tommy and Childs was probably jealous of the ball tampering, but I agree with the first part about the length of time on the ball.
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