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Thread: Toronto pull out of SL for the season

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    IF Toronto are allowed back next year, then no fans should attend their games, home or away. In fact I'd like to see teams boycott playing them. I don't know who the •••• they think they are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    IF Toronto are allowed back next year, then no fans should attend their games, home or away. In fact I'd like to see teams boycott playing them. I don't know who the •••• they think they are.
    Agreed mate, they have brought the game in to disrepute and should be kicked out for good, the entire premise of their existence is a complete joke. If you can afford to pay the wages they are paying they have no real reason to refuse to play the season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    IF Toronto are allowed back next year, then no fans should attend their games, home or away. In fact I'd like to see teams boycott playing them. I don't know who the •••• they think they are.
    I agree. There should be no way back. Return to the bottom division or set up their own league in Canada

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    Quote Originally Posted by wirefox View Post
    Haven’t Featherstone been asked to take Toronto’s place?
    Realistically no team can just step in at such short notice.First of all there is the question of money,Toronto got no tv money so no team is going to step up without being paid,the players would want more for playing in SL. The clubs have had no chance to plan on recruitment. It's just not viable.

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    Whether we like it or not I think we will have to accept that if Toronto are able to compete in 2021/2 then they will have to be allowed to simply because there seems to be no alternative other than have a smaller SL with either less fixtures or more loop fixtures - and I don’t think Sky would go for that.
    You can’t just say to any Championship club join Super League next season without any league this season as this would be totally unfair and no doubt thrown out of any appeal court.
    They’ll probably be heavily fined as a punishment, possibly even start with a points deduction and the spin from SL will be to blame the pandemic for the unique situation they’re in ( which is partially true).
    You’re not going to get an ideal solution with this so I feel we’re just going to have to live with the compromise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    They’ll probably be heavily fined as a punishment, possibly even start with a points deduction and the spin from SL will be to blame the pandemic for the unique situation they’re in ( which is partially true).
    You’re not going to get an ideal solution with this so I feel we’re just going to have to live with the compromise.
    That doesn’t look like much of a compromise to me, because letting them back in is a surrender to them doing what they want. Maybe they get fined and maybe they’d get points deducted, but I would then expect a rule to be brought in to have no relegation in 2021 to protect them.

    Because at the end of the day if the powers that be allow them back into SL in 2021 it’s an admission that they are so desperate for them to succeed that they will change more rules to keep them there. Why would they make a mockery of the game by re-admitting a club in 2021 that refused to play in 2020 only to then give them some relegation-guaranteeing points deduction? Basically, they wouldn’t.

    You either sever ties with them now, or you allow them back in and admit that Toronto are playing by different rules. I vote for Option A, I fear they’ll vote for Option B.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    Whether we like it or not I think we will have to accept that if Toronto are able to compete in 2021/2 then they will have to be allowed to simply because there seems to be no alternative other than have a smaller SL with either less fixtures or more loop fixtures - and I don’t think Sky would go for that.
    You can’t just say to any Championship club join Super League next season without any league this season as this would be totally unfair and no doubt thrown out of any appeal court.
    They’ll probably be heavily fined as a punishment, possibly even start with a points deduction and the spin from SL will be to blame the pandemic for the unique situation they’re in ( which is partially true).
    You’re not going to get an ideal solution with this so I feel we’re just going to have to live with the compromise.
    I don't think we do have to accept it at all, and why should we? As Tom mentioned, their entire premise is a joke and the contempt Argyle has shown is a disgrace. I honestly can't believe something couldn't have been done regarding the Visa's and for him to be moaning about costs is astounding when he's a billionaire. He's clearly realised his team are woeful, most likely won't win a game all season and spat his dummy.

    As to who replaces them, I think it needs to be an 11 team comp' next year and the winner of the Championship gains promotion. I don't for a moment think it will go that way, whatever's decided it's a nailed on cock up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    That doesn’t look like much of a compromise to me, because letting them back in is a surrender to them doing what they want. Maybe they get fined and maybe they’d get points deducted, but I would then expect a rule to be brought in to have no relegation in 2021 to protect them.

    Because at the end of the day if the powers that be allow them back into SL in 2021 it’s an admission that they are so desperate for them to succeed that they will change more rules to keep them there. Why would they make a mockery of the game by re-admitting a club in 2021 that refused to play in 2020 only to then give them some relegation-guaranteeing points deduction? Basically, they wouldn’t.

    You either sever ties with them now, or you allow them back in and admit that Toronto are playing by different rules. I vote for Option A, I fear they’ll vote for Option B.
    Look I’m not bother either way about Toronto, let’s face it the RFL have got form for ignoring/changing rules to suit certain clubs. So this will be no different.

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    Although I've always thought that having a Canadian team in our domestic league was a mad idea, I was prepared to give it a go. I still feel that way.
    I think we just need to take a step back from this, and remember what's going on out there. These are uncharted waters!
    I don't believe that allowing them to miss this season will make RL look silly. In fact, I think quite the opposite, and will do us no harm at all.
    IMO we should make more use of the caring 'RL family' image. Here's an opportunity to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    I don't think we do have to accept it at all, and why should we? As Tom mentioned, their entire premise is a joke and the contempt Argyle has shown is a disgrace. I honestly can't believe something couldn't have been done regarding the Visa's and for him to be moaning about costs is astounding when he's a billionaire. He's clearly realised his team are woeful, most likely won't win a game all season and spat his dummy.

    As to who replaces them, I think it needs to be an 11 team comp' next year and the winner of the Championship gains promotion. I don't for a moment think it will go that way, whatever's decided it's a nailed on cock up.
    If we’re finishing the comp this year in late November I’d say we don’t start the 2021 season until mid to late February, and with the World Cup starting on 23 October we should be looking at a Grand Final in mid September to give the international players at least a month for resting and pre-tournament training camps.

    So, we’ve automatically cut 2-3 weeks off the beginning and about 3-4 weeks off the end of the 2021 season right away. There’s only about 30 weeks between mid Feb and mid Sep, so take away the 4 weekends for the Cup and another 3-4 for playoffs and Grand Final and we’re down to 20-22 weeks. So, no reason (for one year only) not to go down to 11 clubs and play a 20 game season in 2021.

    Do a one-off deal with the RFL to stick Cup and play-off games on season tickets and sell them for the same amount as a 13 game season ticket, and if a club doesn’t play 3 Cup and playoff games at home take the relevant financial amount off the 2022 season tickets when clubs are back to some normality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    Although I've always thought that having a Canadian team in our domestic league was a mad idea, I was prepared to give it a go. I still feel that way.
    I think we just need to take a step back from this, and remember what's going on out there. These are uncharted waters!
    I don't believe that allowing them to miss this season will make RL look silly. In fact, I think quite the opposite, and will do us no harm at all.
    IMO we should make more use of the caring 'RL family' image. Here's an opportunity to do so.
    We haven’t allowed them, they have just done it independently. Nobody is going to think that the RFL allowed the club that can afford SBW to have six months off for the good of the game. They’ll all think that this club acted against the spirit of the game and thought that the game was so small time that it would get away with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    If we’re finishing the comp this year in late November I’d say we don’t start the 2021 season until mid to late February, and with the World Cup starting on 23 October we should be looking at a Grand Final in mid September to give the international players at least a month for resting and pre-tournament training camps.

    So, we’ve automatically cut 2-3 weeks off the beginning and about 3-4 weeks off the end of the 2021 season right away. There’s only about 30 weeks between mid Feb and mid Sep, so take away the 4 weekends for the Cup and another 3-4 for playoffs and Grand Final and we’re down to 20-22 weeks. So, no reason (for one year only) not to go down to 11 clubs and play a 20 game season in 2021.

    Do a one-off deal with the RFL to stick Cup and play-off games on season tickets and sell them for the same amount as a 13 game season ticket, and if a club doesn’t play 3 Cup and playoff games at home take the relevant financial amount off the 2022 season tickets when clubs are back to some normality.
    There you go. I hadn't thought of it that much but that works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    If we’re finishing the comp this year in late November I’d say we don’t start the 2021 season until mid to late February, and with the World Cup starting on 23 October we should be looking at a Grand Final in mid September to give the international players at least a month for resting and pre-tournament training camps.

    So, we’ve automatically cut 2-3 weeks off the beginning and about 3-4 weeks off the end of the 2021 season right away. There’s only about 30 weeks between mid Feb and mid Sep, so take away the 4 weekends for the Cup and another 3-4 for playoffs and Grand Final and we’re down to 20-22 weeks. So, no reason (for one year only) not to go down to 11 clubs and play a 20 game season in 2021.

    Do a one-off deal with the RFL to stick Cup and play-off games on season tickets and sell them for the same amount as a 13 game season ticket, and if a club doesn’t play 3 Cup and playoff games at home take the relevant financial amount off the 2022 season tickets when clubs are back to some normality.
    That is a very sensible idea,far to sensible for the RFL though i fear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    Although I've always thought that having a Canadian team in our domestic league was a mad idea, I was prepared to give it a go. I still feel that way.
    I think we just need to take a step back from this, and remember what's going on out there. These are uncharted waters!
    I don't believe that allowing them to miss this season will make RL look silly. In fact, I think quite the opposite, and will do us no harm at all.
    IMO we should make more use of the caring 'RL family' image. Here's an opportunity to do so.
    Agreed these are difficult times with lots of jobs at risk and lots of businesses struggling to survive, making the decision to pull out of this season's would have been a difficult one to make but by saving money now it may mean they are in a better position to survive next year

    There were noises that New York and Ottowa were planning to start teams soon, this may have killed off their ideas.

    Re expansion in general, starting a team like Toronto has to go hand in glove with a plan to get the game played at different levels in the local community.

    Toronto playing games against top Super league clubs needs to be a shop window to show off the game and attract new fans and players with a long term plan that maybe in 10 to 20yrs time it can develop into a stand alone league competition over there.

    Unfortunately that needs long term thinking a long term commitment something the RL isn't noted for

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    Although I've always thought that having a Canadian team in our domestic league was a mad idea, I was prepared to give it a go. I still feel that way.
    I think we just need to take a step back from this, and remember what's going on out there. These are uncharted waters!
    I don't believe that allowing them to miss this season will make RL look silly. In fact, I think quite the opposite, and will do us no harm at all.
    IMO we should make more use of the caring 'RL family' image. Here's an opportunity to do so.
    Forgetting what they’re called and where they sometimes play their games, this is a club that has failed to pay its players on time for the past 6-7 months and has had lawsuits taken out against them for failing to pay what they agreed to businesses. I don’t think there’d be this sympathy if it were an English club. Factor in that they’ve been abysmal with visas since day one. There’s been problems every single year since their inception.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    Quote Originally Posted by barry View Post
    No they put themselves forward despite not being able to take their players off furlong and I assume no way of paying their players who aren't even in training. No substance to their offer. and why would the RFL just let a random championship team in for no reason?

    Sent from my SM-A715F using Tapatalk
    Because their players are stayers not sprinters?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    Because their players are stayers not sprinters?
    My speculations have been neither of late.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    We haven’t allowed them, they have just done it independently. Nobody is going to think that the RFL allowed the club that can afford SBW to have six months off for the good of the game. They’ll all think that this club acted against the spirit of the game and thought that the game was so small time that it would get away with it.
    Sorry. Just my terminology.
    By 'allow' I mean 'accept' without the punishments that some on here are calling for.
    I worry that if we kick them out, it will somehow backfire on the sport. Make us look like the bad guys to the wider world.
    Allowing them back in 2021, and we're seen as the good guys (which we could benefit from).
    Last edited by KentishBarry; 21st July 2020 at 19:58.

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    Rumours are, this David Argyle will pull the plug in November according to journalist John Davidson.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    Agreed these are difficult times with lots of jobs at risk and lots of businesses struggling to survive, making the decision to pull out of this season's would have been a difficult one to make but by saving money now it may mean they are in a better position to survive next year

    There were noises that New York and Ottowa were planning to start teams soon, this may have killed off their ideas.

    Re expansion in general, starting a team like Toronto has to go hand in glove with a plan to get the game played at different levels in the local community.

    Toronto playing games against top Super league clubs needs to be a shop window to show off the game and attract new fans and players with a long term plan that maybe in 10 to 20yrs time it can develop into a stand alone league competition over there.

    Unfortunately that needs long term thinking a long term commitment something the RL isn't noted for


    I agree with all you've said here. Surely the idea was to use TW to showcase RL in Canada/NE USA, with the hope that the game would catch on there and more clubs would start-up, leading to the formation of a fledgling league in due course. You're not going to generate & retain interest in Toronto playing the likes of Batley & Rochdale, so need them competing against SL clubs.

    This is an unprecedented situation, at least in all our lifetimes, and allowances need to be made. Of course, if rumours of Argyle backing out are true, then it's all moot because TW only exist due to his benevolence. It'd be a pity, as the sport is desperate for new cash and new exposure. The whole of RL in this country seems flat and uninspired. Those clubs with the ambition and sufficient money to create something with a hint of excitement are being swamped by crap clubs who are barely surviving. It's all so different to the optimism and excitement when SL started.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    Because their players are stayers not sprinters?
    I blame auto correct!

    Sent from my SM-A715F using Tapatalk

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    Well I am not in the pro Canada camp, I can't think of anything more ridiculous than having a team from 3000 miles away playing in a league based in Northern England and a token French team. The thing is the world is never going to be the same after Covid has subsided for one thing jobs are going to cascade over the edge airlines are in freefall and some are lamenting the demise of a Canadian team. Surely they should be kicked out now and told you won't be coming back when it suits you, but knowing the RFL they will probably bankrupt the game to keep this stupid idea going.
    On the Back foot looking for the front one.

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    What's the betting that Toronto want to play in SL next season, and ask for their share of sky money?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    What's the betting that Toronto want to play in SL next season, and ask for their share of sky money?
    From David Argyle’s comments on Sky, I think he’s intimating that he wants their share of central funding. Also sounds as if he wants to concentrate on Canadian development, so by that, it sounds like they’re not going to be in Super League.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    From David Argyle’s comments on Sky, I think he’s intimating that he wants their share of central funding. Also sounds as if he wants to concentrate on Canadian development, so by that, it sounds like they’re not going to be in Super League.

    it could be that he wants central funding for the Wolfpack, who will be the flagship Canadian team, whilst developing the game beneath that in Canada (and NE USA?)

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