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Thread: Saints, Woolf and 6 to go

  1. #26
    Got A Season Ticket palmorr's Avatar
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    A great thread!
    I have enjoyed reading the contributions
    And my two ha'pence worth.....

    Time will tell.......
    Just like it did for Simmonds and Cunningham
    Just like it did for Brown and Holbrook

  2. #27
    Learning All The Songs RJM25R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by undertheradar View Post
    I will never understand people that would take entertainment over winning trophies. This is professional sport, winning trophies is all that matters.

    Nothing beats seeing your team win silverware, if it’s entertaining that’s a bonus.



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    WIGAN have shown the way with this outlook. Win at all costs, grind and wrestle (and cheat?) your way through.

    Their supporters fled in droves, and attendances continue to drop. Lots of armchair supporters who don’t go to the games....

    Eventually they are a shadow of what they used to be with a cabinet of trophies and a rented ground with no income....... in the 80’s (with a huge advantage admittedly) WIGAN were very entertaining to watch. Now? Only in the derby’s generally.......
    Posted by paulscnthorpe
    Thompson made more metres than Isa, clubb, Byrne, partington, o loughlin, Powell and flower combined

    Posted by SaintJon
    And he only played 50 minutes...

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by undertheradar View Post
    I will never understand people that would take entertainment over winning trophies. This is professional sport, winning trophies is all that matters.

    Nothing beats seeing your team win silverware, if its entertaining thats a bonus.
    But when only a handful of games actually count when it comes to winning trophies, do you want to see a team that is easily one of the best in the comp playing boring RL week in week out with nothing but a play off place gained at the end of the 30 weeks?

    Im all for playing as dull and as dirty as we please in play off games, Grand Finals etc where the win is all that counts, but on an average weekend it simply isnt enough, because in a play off format regular season wins simply arent worth enough for there not to be an entertainment factor attached.

    Nobody has ever complained that we didnt play like the 82 Kangaroos when we won a Grand Final or a play off game because winning is all that counts, but in a comp where you can lose at least 12 league games and still make the play offs there is simply not enough worth in most games to say that boring RL is the be all and end all as long as we win.

  4. #29
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    From what I have seen of the Roosters Woolfe did a great job with a weakened team, they are something else. Give him time.

  5. #30
    Starting A Programme Collection undertheradar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    But when only a handful of games actually count when it comes to winning trophies, do you want to see a team that is easily one of the best in the comp playing boring RL week in week out with nothing but a play off place gained at the end of the 30 weeks?

    Im all for playing as dull and as dirty as we please in play off games, Grand Finals etc where the win is all that counts, but on an average weekend it simply isnt enough, because in a play off format regular season wins simply arent worth enough for there not to be an entertainment factor attached.

    Nobody has ever complained that we didnt play like the 82 Kangaroos when we won a Grand Final or a play off game because winning is all that counts, but in a comp where you can lose at least 12 league games and still make the play offs there is simply not enough worth in most games to say that boring RL is the be all and end all as long as we win.
    For me, winning is all that matters. Im not overly bothered how we do it. But thats just my opinion.

    Look at Warrington they played some great stuff under Smith and blew teams away but didnt win the big prize.

    And look at us in 2018, we played some superb stuff. Id rather wed have not been as entertaining but cleaned up the trophies.

    In 25 years time, the history books wont show how entertained people were, itll show who won what.


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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by undertheradar View Post
    For me, winning is all that matters. I’m not overly bothered how we do it. But that’s just my opinion.

    Look at Warrington they played some great stuff under Smith and blew teams away but didn’t win the big prize.

    And look at us in 2018, we played some superb stuff. I’d rather we’d have not been as entertaining but cleaned up the trophies.

    In 25 years time, the history books won’t show how entertained people were, it’ll show who won what.


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    Chris Joynt said the hardest part of captaincy for him was tempering some players natural instinct to play open every set. He quotes "that isn`t going to work today" to Tommy Martyn in a rainy cup game up in Cumbria with marra men on the march who were starting to grow another leg due to us nearly blowing an early lead.
    He was also a running open style player himself scoring that beauty with its famous commentary so Gray`s point of style over substance for most of the season is valid, that team knew how to be hard nosed when needed though, "read it in the newspaper" he said about the voluntary tackle.
    I guess you have to have the experience and talent to know, when to and when not.

  7. #32
    In The South Stand STIDDY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by undertheradar View Post
    For me, winning is all that matters. I’m not overly bothered how we do it. But that’s just my opinion.

    Look at Warrington they played some great stuff under Smith and blew teams away but didn’t win the big prize.

    And look at us in 2018, we played some superb stuff. I’d rather we’d have not been as entertaining but cleaned up the trophies.

    In 25 years time, the history books won’t show how entertained people were, it’ll show who won what.


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    Its a very fine balance on playing conservative and entertaining rugby, too be honest the way the Saints have played over the 24 year super league era has been pretty outstanding as far as competitiveness is concerned. We have had your Bradford, Wigan, Leeds and Warrington making their mark but the common denominator has always been the Saints for 23 out of 24 of those years. The likes of Hull, Huddersfield and Castleford have been near enough one season wonders.

    You could say Saints are the benchmark for consistency, we can't win trophies every year and perhaps we can consider we were pretty unlucky in 2 finals to come up with some silverware to add to the 24 trophies won in this professional era. Our biggest problem or challenge is to compete on every front whilst other teams have focussed more on the one trophy in that season examples were Hull, Leeds, Catalans and Warrington.

    The mindset in finals is obviously different and I think this is where you need a good coach and captain to make sure the game plan is executed correctly, on the other side of the coin its just simply the opposition is much better than us on the day.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by undertheradar View Post
    For me, winning is all that matters. I’m not overly bothered how we do it. But that’s just my opinion.

    Look at Warrington they played some great stuff under Smith and blew teams away but didn’t win the big prize.

    And look at us in 2018, we played some superb stuff. I’d rather we’d have not been as entertaining but cleaned up the trophies.

    In 25 years time, the history books won’t show how entertained people were, it’ll show who won what.


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    It's an interesting point that you make.
    If you think about it stripped back to it's basics, the object of the game is to score more points than the opposition, and I very much doubt that there's ever been a chairman who has said to his players, 'forget about the result, just go out there and entertain'!
    However, I'm with Gray77 on this one. Winning is great, and trophies are the icing on the cake, but I also want to be entertained week in week out.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    It's an interesting point that you make.
    If you think about it stripped back to it's basics, the object of the game is to score more points than the opposition, and I very much doubt that there's ever been a chairman who has said to his players, 'forget about the result, just go out there and entertain'!
    However, I'm with Gray77 on this one. Winning is great, and trophies are the icing on the cake, but I also want to be entertained week in week out.
    I'm not even asking to be entertained week in week out to be honest, because some games require a different mindset and a different gameplan. Wigan at the DW, don't care how we play as long as we win, same as games with Wire, play off games, Cup Semi Finals, Finals etc. Big games are about getting over the line and getting the result.

    But for half the season when we're playing the likes of Wakefield at home we need to (in general) try and play with some style. If we had a FPTP system where every 2 points helped us potentially win a title, or every loss potentially cost us one then the argument can be made to just win. But in a play off system that we will qualify for quite easily with the team we have, we need to offer a little more in those kinds of games, because we'll win those games 8 or 9 times out of 10 regardless. Good teams should know when to switch it up, when to play with a bit of flair and when to keep it simple and effective.

    Also, how many people get into RL because their local team is winning, versus getting into it because their local team is fun to watch? Do people flock through the doors because we beat Wakefield 16-8 at home to stay top of a league that doesn't reward the team that finishes top with a league title? I don't think I'd have fallen in love with RL in the mid 1980s if Saints played like they did under Potter, Simmons, KC, etc. I'd have tried it and said it wasn't for me. People that say winning is all that counts should remember where and when they fell in love with the sport, and why they did. I bet in most cases it was because they thought the game was great to watch as opposed to just getting in to something because their local team won stuff.

    There is a balance between the two, where a team can play with flair and with discipline to suit the occasion. You can win games handsomely in the regular season playing great stuff then shut up shop in the play offs if that is the best way to win those bigger games.

  10. #35
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    Speaking to some fellow rugby fans last week, fans of a local amateur team in St Helens called clock face miners who are quite worried about when and if the ncl season will start up again. I always like to keep an eye on the local amateur teams

  11. #36
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk The Yellow Giraffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Colin View Post
    Speaking to some fellow rugby fans last week, fans of a local amateur team in St Helens called clock face miners who are quite worried about when and if the ncl season will start up again. I always like to keep an eye on the local amateur teams
    The NCL have already said they are scrapping the regular season. The plan is to replace it with localised round robin type tournaments.
    NEVER WRITE OFF THE SAINTS

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    The NCL have already said they are scrapping the regular season. The plan is to replace is with localised round robin type tournaments.
    Cheers for the info

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