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Thread: Johnny Whitelley MBE.

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    Default Johnny Whitelley MBE.

    I read the article in yesterdays Daily Mirror about Johnny and couldn't help thinking about all the great players there were at that time and also the fact that they were part timers . I don't want to start an argument about old times and present times but I think at about that time Saints back three forwards were Vines , Huddart , Karalious sorry if I have got these guys name spelt wrong but the point being that was Saints back three and other teams had great players .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Ged View Post
    I read the article in yesterdays Daily Mirror about Johnny and couldn't help thinking about all the great players there were at that time and also the fact that they were part timers . I don't want to start an argument about old times and present times but I think at about that time Saints back three forwards were Vines , Huddart , Karalious sorry if I have got these guys name spelt wrong but the point being that was Saints back three and other teams had great players .
    Huddart and Karalius were outstanding and most probably would have been so in the present game, most teams had at least 3 great players in their side but Saints in the 60"s probably had about 7 or 8 great players especially in that 1961-1966 decade period.

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    Well before my time but I remember stories from older relatives about all those players mentioned but especially Huddart and Karalius. One relative in particular was always saying how much better old players were and these "fancy Dan's" now (late 80's/early 90's) would be murdered. It's making me smile thinking about it now, as he was serious.

    He'd be turning in his grave now at the likes of Jamie Foster, Sam Tompkins and others of that ilk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    Well before my time but I remember stories from older relatives about all those players mentioned but especially Huddart and Karalius. One relative in particular was always saying how much better old players were and these "fancy Dan's" now (late 80's/early 90's) would be murdered. It's making me smile thinking about it now, as he was serious.

    He'd be turning in his grave now at the likes of Jamie Foster, Sam Tompkins and others of that ilk.
    Barba was a class act when he was on song but he used to always look hurt when he had scored or made a break. It used to do my head in. Show you are hurt & you'll often get targeted
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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Huddart and Karalius were outstanding and most probably would have been so in the present game, most teams had at least 3 great players in their side but Saints in the 60"s probably had about 7 or 8 great players especially in that 1961-1966 decade period.
    Other than 2005/6 that era of 1961- 66 was probably my favourite. So many great players Voll Mantle Huddart Murphy French Warlow, the list just goes on. I think in 66 we either scored a record number of points or tries etc and our pack was dominant, then they brought in the 4 tackle rule causing us to change our style a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    Other than 2005/6 that era of 1961- 66 was probably my favourite. So many great players Voll Mantle Huddart Murphy French Warlow, the list just goes on. I think in 66 we either scored a record number of points or tries etc and our pack was dominant, then they brought in the 4 tackle rule causing us to change our style a bit.
    He wasn't a particularly sensational signing, but it was quite contraversional, signing Bill Sayer from Wigan when hookers were very important, Murphy encouraging everyone to run offside at Wembley knowing we'd win the ball at the resultant scrum because Colin Clarke? Was suspended. I can clearly remember regularly seeing Sayer after matches at Knowsley Road with opened bottles of Guiness in either hand and unopened ones in each jacket pocket all bought for him by grateful speccies

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woolyback View Post
    He wasn't a particularly sensational signing, but it was quite contraversional, signing Bill Sayer from Wigan when hookers were very important, Murphy encouraging everyone to run offside at Wembley knowing we'd win the ball at the resultant scrum because Colin Clarke? Was suspended. I can clearly remember regularly seeing Sayer after matches at Knowsley Road with opened bottles of Guiness in either hand and unopened ones in each jacket pocket all bought for him by grateful speccies
    You're dead right. Wigan had to play Bill Woosey didn't they & he was very inexperienced compared to Sayer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woolyback View Post
    He wasn't a particularly sensational signing, but it was quite contraversional, signing Bill Sayer from Wigan when hookers were very important, Murphy encouraging everyone to run offside at Wembley knowing we'd win the ball at the resultant scrum because Colin Clarke? Was suspended. I can clearly remember regularly seeing Sayer after matches at Knowsley Road with opened bottles of Guiness in either hand and unopened ones in each jacket pocket all bought for him by grateful speccies
    Yeh I remember when Wigan were right under our post and Murphy ran offside. I think Punchy Griffiths kicked the goal from that one. Just as a side note Punchy came with a group of Rhodesians to a party at my house in Perth about 1979.

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    Those teams then all had players that some of the older supporters would and personally I think justifiably would not just get into any team now but would star , Leeds had a Loose forward named Stuart Shaw , Hunslet had Geiff Gunney ,Swinton Albert Blan , and that is only a few and not even thinking about Backs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    Other than 2005/6 that era of 1961- 66 was probably my favourite. So many great players Voll Mantle Huddart Murphy French Warlow, the list just goes on. I think in 66 we either scored a record number of points or tries etc and our pack was dominant, then they brought in the 4 tackle rule causing us to change our style a bit.
    Yes I was going to mention the 2005/06 seasons in post. There was a period over the decades if there was a number 6 in the year it was noted the club would have success but that kind of petered out over the last decade. Over the earlier years pre super league Huddart, Mantle, Watson and Pinner were my favourites. As for other clubs Hepworth and Hardisty early 70"s was one of the best half back partnerships around at the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Yes I was going to mention the 2005/06 seasons in post. There was a period over the decades if there was a number 6 in the year it was noted the club would have success but that kind of petered out over the last decade. Over the earlier years pre super league Huddart, Mantle, Watson and Pinner were my favourites. As for other clubs Hepworth and Hardisty early 70"s was one of the best half back partnerships around at the time.
    How could I have not mentioned Watson! Hepworth and Hardisty were a great HB combination. I remember one time when Murp and Hepworth were vying for the GB place and when we played Cas, Murphy did Hepworth with the elbow and put him out of the running. I think he may have broken his jaw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    You're dead right. Wigan had to play Bill Woosey didn't they & he was very inexperienced compared to Sayer
    Yes we really turned them over with that one. I just wished we could have kept Murph. I know he must have been a pain in the arse and was like Oliver Twist but he had 5 good years left in him. Sayer and Albert Halsall very much of the four tackle era. I am not even sure Woosey was a hooker or if he was a open side prop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Yes I was going to mention the 2005/06 seasons in post. There was a period over the decades if there was a number 6 in the year it was noted the club would have success but that kind of petered out over the last decade. Over the earlier years pre super league Huddart, Mantle, Watson and Pinner were my favourites. As for other clubs Hepworth and Hardisty early 70"s was one of the best half back partnerships around at the time.
    Incredible to think back, but do you remember schoolboy rugby league live on ITV from Yorkshire on a Sunday morning, that was when we saw the likes of Hepworth and Hardisty and later Mal Reilly playing as schoolboys for Castleford schools against other Yorkshire teams from memory I dont think Lancashire teams were involved but I might be wrong, those three players really stood out even then

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    Later years but do you remember Scrumdown ITV half eleven at night before VCR hosted by a young Richard "Dick" Madeley. Highlights from the Weekend games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woolyback View Post
    Incredible to think back, but do you remember schoolboy rugby league live on ITV from Yorkshire on a Sunday morning, that was when we saw the likes of Hepworth and Hardisty and later Mal Reilly playing as schoolboys for Castleford schools against other Yorkshire teams from memory I dont think Lancashire teams were involved but I might be wrong, those three players really stood out even then
    Don't know if it was the same show but remember a lot of sunday morning amateur games, maybe inter towns, when Roger Millward seemed to stand out, though he would have been younger than Hepworth and Hardisty

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Ged View Post
    I read the article in yesterdays Daily Mirror about Johnny and couldn't help thinking about all the great players there were at that time and also the fact that they were part timers . I don't want to start an argument about old times and present times but I think at about that time Saints back three forwards were Vines , Huddart , Karalious sorry if I have got these guys name spelt wrong but the point being that was Saints back three and other teams had great players .
    You're right not to question that. You simply can't compare then to now.
    But, wouldn't it be interesting to see some of those players that you (and others) have mentioned, playing today with the benefit of modern diet, training techniques and being paid as full time professionals?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Barba was a class act when he was on song but he used to always look hurt when he had scored or made a break. It used to do my head in. Show you are hurt & you'll often get targeted
    Barba was/is a ••••ing coward. He could've been a great and he chose otherwise. He had more than one chance and ••••ed on us from a great height. •••• him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    Barba was/is a ••••ing coward. He could've been a great and he chose otherwise. He had more than one chance and ••••ed on us from a great height. •••• him.
    He rivalled Matty Bowen for defensive frailties, but great in attack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    Barba was/is a ••••ing coward. He could've been a great and he chose otherwise. He had more than one chance and ••••ed on us from a great height. •••• him.
    Jekyll and Hyde character we got 20 games of brilliant Dr Jekyll approaching the brilliance of Jamie Lyon standard then the Hyde character took over and became similar in attitude to our very short term Tricky Trindall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    He rivalled Matty Bowen for defensive frailties, but great in attack.
    I remember that one stunning tackle he made on Greg Eden I think it was. But yeah, generally wasn't great. Fabulous going forward as you say, probably the most naturally gifted player I've seen attack wise at Saints.

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    I forgot to mention the Barrow team of the 1950s Frank Castle on the wing , Jackson and Goodwin centres, and at Oldham amongst a crowd of great players a lot of which came from Leigh Ganley ,Rocky Turner who was one of those contending for the Great Britain Back row slot , I am going to have to have a rest now before I start to think that the game isn't as good as it used to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    Yeh I remember when Wigan were right under our post and Murphy ran offside. I think Punchy Griffiths kicked the goal from that one. Just as a side note Punchy came with a group of Rhodesians to a party at my house in Perth about 1979.
    No, it was Laurie Gilfedder who kicked the goal, Griffiths had left Wigan in late 1962 (just before the big freeze) Colin Clarke was the only player ever to get a two match suspension for a technical offence, foot up at the scrum, the referee sent both he and the Leeds hooker off after just over 20 minutes, he'd warned them previously and Eric Ashton should have moved him after the warning.
    Bill (seggy) Sayer, what a character! He didn't want to leave Wigan and asked for £5 to play in "A" team games, Wigan refused, big mistake, and the rest is history.
    He was a rep for an supply company and used to call on my dad who was in charge of the engineering stores at Forsters/Rockware Glass. He always "looked after my dad at Christmas, that's how things worked in those days

    One of my favourite stories about Sayer was on the 1962 tour of Australia. He was rooming with Brian McTigue and when the players went out for training one morning Seggy was missing. The coach asked McTigue where he was, Mac said "no idea". When he got back to their room Sayer was fast asleep in the wardrobe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Ged View Post
    I forgot to mention the Barrow team of the 1950s Frank Castle on the wing , Jackson and Goodwin centres, and at Oldham amongst a crowd of great players a lot of which came from Leigh Ganley ,Rocky Turner who was one of those contending for the Great Britain Back row slot , I am going to have to have a rest now before I start to think that the game isn't as good as it used to be.
    Tht Oldham side was probably one of the best who never really reached their potential. I've always maintained that Alan Davies is the best British centre I have seen.Frank Pitchford, John Etty, Cracknell, Rocky Turner, Don Vines, Charlie Winslade and then Bernard Ganley who wasn't the greatest fullback but what a goal kicker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    No, it was Laurie Gilfedder who kicked the goal, Griffiths had left Wigan in late 1962 (just before the big freeze) Colin Clarke was the only player ever to get a two match suspension for a technical offence, foot up at the scrum, the referee sent both he and the Leeds hooker off after just over 20 minutes, he'd warned them previously and Eric Ashton should have moved him after the warning.
    Bill (seggy) Sayer, what a character! He didn't want to leave Wigan and asked for £5 to play in "A" team games, Wigan refused, big mistake, and the rest is history.
    He was a rep for an supply company and used to call on my dad who was in charge of the engineering stores at Forsters/Rockware Glass. He always "looked after my dad at Christmas, that's how things worked in those days

    One of my favourite stories about Sayer was on the 1962 tour of Australia. He was rooming with Brian McTigue and when the players went out for training one morning Seggy was missing. The coach asked McTigue where he was, Mac said "no idea". When he got back to their room Sayer was fast asleep in the wardrobe.
    Was McTigue the 2nd rower who liked basketball? Pretty sure Murphy said he was the greatest forward to play rugby league.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Ged View Post
    I forgot to mention the Barrow team of the 1950s Frank Castle on the wing , Jackson and Goodwin centres, and at Oldham amongst a crowd of great players a lot of which came from Leigh Ganley ,Rocky Turner who was one of those contending for the Great Britain Back row slot , I am going to have to have a rest now before I start to think that the game isn't as good as it used to be.
    It isn't as good as it used to be. The early 90s to mid 2000s were so much better than now. And the 60s and 70s and 80s looked even better than that.

    Rugby players first. Not the bulked up robots we have today. All it is now is about slowing the ruck down & bashing the opposition. We've listened to the Australians too much, and just ended up with a slower version of what they play.

    I hardly watch the NRL now. That 2nd state of origin last season was one of the most boring games of either code I've ever watched
    Dave Woods: the guy who makes Eddie Hemmings look like a decent commentator

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