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Thread: Coronavirus - Rugby League Implications

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    Let’s not forget Cas go a cash injection of ~£350K over the Solomon’s case. Surely they could have earmarked that as a start for investment in a new ground? No they go out and sign top players.

    Super league need to bring in minimum standards on grounds. Give existing clubs five years to achieve it. Then Cas and Wakey will be forced to get their act together.
    I think the RFL are partially to blame in moving the goal posts for the "framing of the future" objective which must be almost 20 yrs since its conception, there is also a biased tolerance towards the Yorkshire teams as well which Castleford + Wakefield have took advantage of.

    The likes of Wigan, Warrington, Widnes, Salford, Leigh + Saints have conformed with modern stadia, whilst the away fans from those clubs visit the Yorkshire ones and our fans are still subjected to standing room only and exposed to the weather elements as per Leeds, Cas, Wakefield, Hull KR!!.
    Last edited by STIDDY; 3rd May 2020 at 12:16.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I think the RFL are partially to blame in moving the goal posts for the "framing of the future" objective which must be almost 20 yrs since its conception, there is also a biased tolerance towards the Yorkshire teams as well which Castleford + Wakefield have took advantage of.

    The likes of Wigan, Warrington, Widnes, Salford + Saints have conformed with modern stadia, whilst the away fans from those clubs visit the Yorkshire ones and our fans are still subjected to standing room only and exposed to the weather elements as per Leeds, Cas, Wakefield, Hull KR!!.
    You can excuse Wakefield slightly because of the financial problems they've had over the years, remember according to Mr McMannus we were days away from going under ourselves before he took over, Castleford however, have always had a good crowd base, and have had decent success over the years, some of that should have been invested in the ground, it must only be a matter of a short time before that the main seating stand is declared unsafe, unless it falls down first. They did have plans for a new stadium already to go and planning permission granted but the building had already stalled before the current crisis, and depended on being part of a shopping retail centre, remember them? That won't happen any time soon, if ever.

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    But is this all their own fault? Wakefield and Castleford especially bring so much to the game in terms of supporters, their history and traditions and indeed some playing success that I feel the game would be far worse off without them. Rugby League is in no position to be excluding clubs and getting rid of them in the current climate. We should be supporting each other not condemning them to the scrap heap. And yes I agree with the comments about the state of their grounds having been regularly to both over the last two seasons and feeling like I had been transported back to the seventies. I’m pretty sure everyone involved with both of these clubs would want a new modern stadium themselves and they deserve one. It must be so frustrating and embarrassing for them when in most other areas - decent crowds, good players and sustainability in Super League - they more than hold their own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    But is this all their own fault? Wakefield and Castleford especially bring so much to the game in terms of supporters, their history and traditions and indeed some playing success that I feel the game would be far worse off without them. Rugby League is in no position to be excluding clubs and getting rid of them in the current climate. We should be supporting each other not condemning them to the scrap heap. And yes I agree with the comments about the state of their grounds having been regularly to both over the last two seasons and feeling like I had been transported back to the seventies. I’m pretty sure everyone involved with both of these clubs would want a new modern stadium themselves and they deserve one. It must be so frustrating and embarrassing for them when in most other areas - decent crowds, good players and sustainability in Super League - they more than hold their own.
    You can say the same about Widnes, Leigh And Halifax, they abided by the rules and got turned over by the RFL. If Widnes and Leigh both small towns can have modern facilities then why not Cas and Wakefield. The answer is that they concentrated their money on the field which was not what the rules were at the time.

    I have no sympathy for them at all, as I have said before they have cheated their way into super league in the same way a year on year salary cap breaches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    You can say the same about Widnes, Leigh And Halifax, they abided by the rules and got turned over by the RFL. If Widnes and Leigh both small towns can have modern facilities then why not Cas and Wakefield. The answer is that they concentrated their money on the field which was not what the rules were at the time.

    I have no sympathy for them at all, as I have said before they have cheated their way into super league in the same way a year on year salary cap breaches.
    You are right.

    As why is what was allowed to happen, then we could go on all day.

    This money will have to be paid back & I fancy that certain clubs won't be too forthcoming in paying back their share

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    You can say the same about Widnes, Leigh And Halifax, they abided by the rules and got turned over by the RFL. If Widnes and Leigh both small towns can have modern facilities then why not Cas and Wakefield. The answer is that they concentrated their money on the field which was not what the rules were at the time.

    I have no sympathy for them at all, as I have said before they have cheated their way into super league in the same way a year on year salary cap breaches.
    You’re talking about the ‘Framing the Future” document which is over 20 years ago now. The ethos has had to change out of economic necessity. The guidelines about having to have a modern stadium have been well and truly thrown out of the window - look at the state of the London ground last season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    You’re talking about the ‘Framing the Future” document which is over 20 years ago now. The ethos has had to change out of economic necessity. The guidelines about having to have a modern stadium have been well and truly thrown out of the window - look at the state of the London ground last season.
    I wouldn’t have allowed London up last year, their ground made the league look like a joke.

    If we want to move this game forward ( which we must do to survive) then we need to use this hiatus to take stock of what we have and what we want. This money needs to be wisely invested, I understand it was loaned due to the community work that RL does, but I worry that these clubs will take it a spaff it up against the wall as soon as on field results go south. These clubs have years of precedence to show how they will use this money, and I can’t see anything changing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    You’re talking about the ‘Framing the Future” document which is over 20 years ago now. The ethos has had to change out of economic necessity. The guidelines about having to have a modern stadium have been well and truly thrown out of the window - look at the state of the London ground last season.
    Sorry that is a poor argument citing London. That fat imbecile Wood pushed clubs down a path which the smaller Lancashire clubs especially Widnes crumbled upon. His little posse over the hill were encouraged to bang planning permission in and look for M62 corridor grants, even being told don't worry about ground share just plod on. Cas and Wakey have played the game to perfection to the detriment of away fans who travel in numbers. Fev are the only one from those three who have improved the stadia in the last twenty years

    By the way that area has had significant ecconomic investment in the last twenty years. Glasshougton is a prime example.

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    I don’t pretend to know the ins and outs of every club’s finances and how local political and commercial deals work out.Your conspiracy theories don’t convince me either. How many clubs spend their Sky money on ground development? Most clubs have either sold their assets and moved in with Football clubs ( Wigan/Hull/Huddersfield) -not really a viable option for Castleford and Wakefield or relied on a supportive benefactor and local council (Saints). As so said earlier the grounds are an embarrassment but I would much prefer a competitive Super League with better players, good attendances and atmosphere at games. Ideally we would have good teams playing in front of healthy grounds in modern stadia. Huddersfield and Salford both have excellent stadia but play in front of poor crowds and neither team offers as much as Castleford at the moment. Widnes, Leigh and Halifax all have decent stadia but not the crowds to support their upkeep ( Widnes and Leigh both having gone bust recently).

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    Good grief lock down is getting to me. I have just ventured onto TotalRL.com for the first time in years here is a sample of the deluded idiots on there

    I posted a sarcastic comment when people were sniping at McMannus

    Posted 1 hour ago
    1 hour ago, Bostik Bailey said:
    Yeh the game doesn’t need the likes of McManus and co with there shiney new stadiums, financial management and vision to take the game forward. It needs more places like Wheldon Road and Bell Vue, and people like double glazing Gary. That way it can ensure mediocrity on and off the field, so Yorkshire clubs can stay in 19th century facilities whilst charging 21st century prices.


    The reply is delusional at best:

    If more people ran their Rugby League clubs like Gary Hetherington and less people ran their Rugby League clubs like McManus and Lenagan the sport would be in a much better financial place.


    There is no argument against that whatsoever

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    I don’t pretend to know the ins and outs of every club’s finances and how local political and commercial deals work out.Your conspiracy theories don’t convince me either. How many clubs spend their Sky money on ground development? Most clubs have either sold their assets and moved in with Football clubs ( Wigan/Hull/Huddersfield) -not really a viable option for Castleford and Wakefield or relied on a supportive benefactor and local council (Saints). As so said earlier the grounds are an embarrassment but I would much prefer a competitive Super League with better players, good attendances and atmosphere at games. Ideally we would have good teams playing in front of healthy grounds in modern stadia. Huddersfield and Salford both have excellent stadia but play in front of poor crowds and neither team offers as much as Castleford at the moment. Widnes, Leigh and Halifax all have decent stadia but not the crowds to support their upkeep ( Widnes and Leigh both having gone bust recently).
    No they don't, both are soulless concrete dumps, and as you said, neither have any fans worth mentioning. The point is, a lot of Lancashire clubs towed the line while those on the other side didn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    Good grief lock down is getting to me. I have just ventured onto TotalRL.com for the first time in years here is a sample of the deluded idiots on there

    I posted a sarcastic comment when people were sniping at McMannus

    Posted 1 hour ago
    1 hour ago, Bostik Bailey said:
    Yeh the game doesn’t need the likes of McManus and co with there shiney new stadiums, financial management and vision to take the game forward. It needs more places like Wheldon Road and Bell Vue, and people like double glazing Gary. That way it can ensure mediocrity on and off the field, so Yorkshire clubs can stay in 19th century facilities whilst charging 21st century prices.


    The reply is delusional at best:

    If more people ran their Rugby League clubs like Gary Hetherington and less people ran their Rugby League clubs like McManus and Lenagan the sport would be in a much better financial place.


    There is no argument against that whatsoever
    You can't argue with stupidity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    You’re talking about the ‘Framing the Future” document which is over 20 years ago now. The ethos has had to change out of economic necessity. The guidelines about having to have a modern stadium have been well and truly thrown out of the window - look at the state of the London ground last season.
    The "Framing of the Document" was really not one based on an Economic model but the RFL have surrendered to it when they should have stuck to their guns with Seating Stadia, Attendances, Youth Development. If that mean't going to a 10 club super league then so be it in the shorter/medium term.

    With the Coronavirus situation we could be forced into that 10 club superleague by default, I still think almost all the Yorkshire clubs have not put the effort in whilst Wigan, Warrington, Widnes, Salford , Leigh + Saints made far more sacrifices which the RFL have not recognised in the bigger picture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    No they don't, both are soulless concrete dumps, and as you said, neither have any fans worth mentioning. The point is, a lot of Lancashire clubs towed the line while those on the other side didn't.
    I think Huddersfield's stadium is a identikit modern ground. Not hugely different to Wigan or Hull in reality. The real issue there is the fact that they generally pull 4/5 thousand crowds and the crowd is totally lost in the 25,000 capacity ground. Huddersfield have had some decent teams in recent years but for some reason the townsfolk there dont appear interested. I always think they have a very old fanbase their support looks like a scene from Cocoon.
    Salford on the other hand looks like it was done on the cheap with one decent stand and the other 3/4 built with a lego kit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    Good grief lock down is getting to me. I have just ventured onto TotalRL.com for the first time in years here is a sample of the deluded idiots on there

    I posted a sarcastic comment when people were sniping at McMannus

    Posted 1 hour ago
    1 hour ago, Bostik Bailey said:
    Yeh the game doesn’t need the likes of McManus and co with there shiney new stadiums, financial management and vision to take the game forward. It needs more places like Wheldon Road and Bell Vue, and people like double glazing Gary. That way it can ensure mediocrity on and off the field, so Yorkshire clubs can stay in 19th century facilities whilst charging 21st century prices.


    The reply is delusional at best:

    If more people ran their Rugby League clubs like Gary Hetherington and less people ran their Rugby League clubs like McManus and Lenagan the sport would be in a much better financial place.


    There is no argument against that whatsoever
    Not really a lot you can do there is there? As long as the self-serving Yorkshire old pals act have an influence at the RFL, the sport will continue to flounder

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    I don't feel the Lancashire v Yorkshire thing (but then, I'm from neither) but I've never had a lot of time for the fans of either Hull club.

    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    The "Framing of the Document" was really not one based on an Economic model but the RFL have surrendered to it when they should have stuck to their guns with Seating Stadia, Attendances, Youth Development. If that mean't going to a 10 club super league then so be it in the shorter/medium term.

    With the Coronavirus situation we could be forced into that 10 club superleague by default, I still think almost all the Yorkshire clubs have not put the effort in whilst Wigan, Warrington, Widnes, Salford , Leigh + Saints made far more sacrifices which the RFL have not recognised in the bigger picture.
    It's hardly surprising when the RFL's idea of expanding the game is picking a non-rugby part of the globe out of a hat at random instead of actually investing in areas where there is an interest in the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Heretic View Post
    I don't feel the Lancashire v Yorkshire thing (but then, I'm from neither) but I've never had a lot of time for the fans of either Hull club.



    It's hardly surprising when the RFL's idea of expanding the game is picking a non-rugby part of the globe out of a hat at random instead of actually investing in areas where there is an interest in the game.
    What I think we need to remember is that the Government’s reasons for making the loan included something along the lines that Rugby League clubs are largely Northern and are integral parts of their local communities and do charitable and other good work within those communities. I suspect that RFL representatives advanced an argument along those lines and that the Government has repeated what was said in the talks for public consumption.

    I’d like to see organic, natural expansion but I agree with you that we need to invest in the heartlands first. I think Justin Holbrook did a wonderful job in terms of reminding the people of St. Helens that the club is a community asset. The Steve Prescott Foundation is currently doing a well publicised job of showing people with links to the sport helping their communities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    I think Huddersfield's stadium is a identikit modern ground. Not hugely different to Wigan or Hull in reality. The real issue there is the fact that they generally pull 4/5 thousand crowds and the crowd is totally lost in the 25,000 capacity ground. Huddersfield have had some decent teams in recent years but for some reason the townsfolk there dont appear interested. I always think they have a very old fanbase their support looks like a scene from Cocoon.
    Salford on the other hand looks like it was done on the cheap with one decent stand and the other 3/4 built with a lego kit.
    I've never liked Huddersfield having been there a good few times so seen it full and virtually empty, probably the only time there was a half decent atmosphere was one of the semi's against Leeds, bit like Bolton, that's another crap stadium. Wigan is better for me although that's probably that it's usually bouncing there. Salfords ground looks like 2 grounds in one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    Good grief lock down is getting to me. I have just ventured onto TotalRL.com for the first time in years here is a sample of the deluded idiots on there

    I posted a sarcastic comment when people were sniping at McMannus

    Posted 1 hour ago
    1 hour ago, Bostik Bailey said:
    Yeh the game doesn’t need the likes of McManus and co with there shiney new stadiums, financial management and vision to take the game forward. It needs more places like Wheldon Road and Bell Vue, and people like double glazing Gary. That way it can ensure mediocrity on and off the field, so Yorkshire clubs can stay in 19th century facilities whilst charging 21st century prices.


    The reply is delusional at best:

    If more people ran their Rugby League clubs like Gary Hetherington and less people ran their Rugby League clubs like McManus and Lenagan the sport would be in a much better financial place.


    There is no argument against that whatsoever
    You would be wasting your time trying to argue with that, it's a lost cause before you start.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Not really a lot you can do there is there? As long as the self-serving Yorkshire old pals act have an influence at the RFL, the sport will continue to flounder
    This is the real problem. By all accounts it was a Warrington MP that presented the case backed up with an analysis of the community impact Of RL carried out by Andy Burnham. These were the main pillars of the case to get the money, both instigated this side of the penines, but the RFL are taking the credit and will administer the cash.

    The Yorkshire clubs are holding this game back, they have an awful sense of entitlement that the game will somehow die if we loose any Yorkshire top teams. Well we lost Oldham which produced countless top players and the game continues.

    This money will disappear faster than a fart in a gale

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    What I think we need to remember is that the Government’s reasons for making the loan included something along the lines that Rugby League clubs are largely Northern and are integral parts of their local communities and do charitable and other good work within those communities. I suspect that RFL representatives advanced an argument along those lines and that the Government has repeated what was said in the talks for public consumption.

    I’d like to see organic, natural expansion but I agree with you that we need to invest in the heartlands first. I think Justin Holbrook did a wonderful job in terms of reminding the people of St. Helens that the club is a community asset. The Steve Prescott Foundation is currently doing a well publicised job of showing people with links to the sport helping their communities.
    I think before ever looking at expanding into France or North America, at the very least a viable Cumbrian club should have been explored. It may have to be a franchise, Cumbria RFC or something to get enough traction, but the fact there is no SL representation there is a serious void in my opinion. Similar arguments could be made for the wider Newcastle area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Not really a lot you can do there is there? As long as the self-serving Yorkshire old pals act have an influence at the RFL, the sport will continue to flounder
    The only thing we can do is get organised and stop attending their grounds, and by that I mean all Lancashire clubs who do tend to travel better than the mingebags to the east anyway and hit them in the pocket. Not ideal but as you say there isn't much else you can do, as the saying goes, sport without fans is nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    This is the real problem. By all accounts it was a Warrington MP that presented the case backed up with an analysis of the community impact Of RL carried out by Andy Burnham. These were the main pillars of the case to get the money, both instigated this side of the penines, but the RFL are taking the credit and will administer the cash.

    The Yorkshire clubs are holding this game back, they have an awful sense of entitlement that the game will somehow die if we loose any Yorkshire top teams. Well we lost Oldham which produced countless top players and the game continues.

    This money will disappear faster than a fart in a gale
    I am very confident that this will happen.

    I do remember Nigel Wood taking all the credit for Sally Bolton's efforts for the 2013 World Cup. Her contribution to the success of that tournament was nothing short of outstanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    The only thing we can do is get organised and stop attending their grounds, and by that I mean all Lancashire clubs who do tend to travel better than the mingebags to the east anyway and hit them in the pocket. Not ideal but as you say there isn't much else you can do, as the saying goes, sport without fans is nothing.
    Can't argue with that. Makes sense to me.

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    It actually does make sense. They don't travel across much now and we are paying 25 notes to stand on open terracing. If I am honest I cut out almost all the away games last season. It's sad because it is a laugh on the coach and having a good drink, but it's 80 notes a pop normally for the day and it was money I couldn't justify last year.

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