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Thread: Coronavirus - Rugby League Implications

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    Quote Originally Posted by sinkers89 View Post
    Its great they have managed to get it sorted. I just hope that it gives others a kick up the arse to get their houses in order.
    It is great they've got it sorted and I hope that it goes someway to saving the game as a whole but what bothers me is clubs like ours, the ones that have invested properly, with solid finances will end up being effected the most as no one else seems to have the wherewithal to pay anything back. That maybe a bit glass half empty but it winds me up no end with these clubs always pleading poverty while they seem to do precious little off their own backs.

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    In The South Stand Jackbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulscnthorpe View Post
    Reports are a 16 million government loan to secure the immediate future of the sport
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...rom-government

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    Now that's one ground where social distancing can easily be applied..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    It is great they've got it sorted and I hope that it goes someway to saving the game as a whole but what bothers me is clubs like ours, the ones that have invested properly, with solid finances will end up being effected the most as no one else seems to have the wherewithal to pay anything back. That maybe a bit glass half empty but it winds me up no end with these clubs always pleading poverty while they seem to do precious little off their own backs.
    Its a cycle of loss though isnt it.

    " Club A" has little / no success, fan numbers dwindle. Not enough money in the club for them to compete, No Success, No fans. Rinse repeat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sinkers89 View Post
    Its a cycle of loss though isnt it.

    " Club A" has little / no success, fan numbers dwindle. Not enough money in the club for them to compete, No Success, No fans. Rinse repeat.
    I see what you're saying but what annoys me is clubs like us, Wire, Leeds, Hull and Wi**n, possibly even Catalan try and get their houses in order, playing in decent grounds, producing players, decent fan bases, and yes, those clubs probably are in better position in the first place to do so, then get clubs like Cas and Huddersfield who've had some recent success but are still very much small time, then the likes of Wakey, and HR who seem happy to plod along, cap in hand from year to year. Salford are a strange one because they tried to break in to the top table, but made a mess of it moving to that daft stadium. At least they had someone who was willing to put his cash into the game but he was hounded out. The whole thing stinks to me and it's a bit depressing when I think about it like that.

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    Without meaning to sound negative this could be thrown into a black hole. The RFL will swallow up a good proportion of this loan.

    Hopefully by August we can get playing again, if not I can see Superleague losing clubs. Beneath the top level most clubs work week to week so it will suit the business model to grab some cash for the black hole and the full time employee. Oldham would be my example of this.

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    Learning All The Songs sinkers89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    I see what you're saying but what annoys me is clubs like us, Wire, Leeds, Hull and Wi**n, possibly even Catalan try and get their houses in order, playing in decent grounds, producing players, decent fan bases, and yes, those clubs probably are in better position in the first place to do so, then get clubs like Cas and Huddersfield who've had some recent success but are still very much small time, then the likes of Wakey, and HR who seem happy to plod along, cap in hand from year to year. Salford are a strange one because they tried to break in to the top table, but made a mess of it moving to that daft stadium. At least they had someone who was willing to put his cash into the game but he was hounded out. The whole thing stinks to me and it's a bit depressing when I think about it like that.
    Totally agree with you mate. Some clubs seem happy to just exist. But just existing doesnt help with the bigger picture.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk paulscnthorpe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyprus View Post
    Without meaning to sound negative this could be thrown into a black hole. The RFL will swallow up a good proportion of this loan.

    Hopefully by August we can get playing again, if not I can see Superleague losing clubs. Beneath the top level most clubs work week to week so it will suit the business model to grab some cash for the black hole and the full time employee. Oldham would be my example of this.
    I think Saints could be hit worst than most, the loan should partly cover the loss of ticket revenue. However with saints having one the biggest average attendances, and also as the club has mentioned often, make more money off the field, we would struggle more than most.

    The only bonus we have is we have assets to loan against.

    Hopefully the money is distributed fairly, rather than simply it into 10 (would the UK government allow it to be shared with Catalans and Toronto)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sinkers89 View Post
    Its a cycle of loss though isnt it.

    " Club A" has little / no success, fan numbers dwindle. Not enough money in the club for them to compete, No Success, No fans. Rinse repeat.
    While I don't disagree with what you are saying,I think it goes a bit deeper than that. If we had a bad year and there were a few under KC. we wouldn't be on our knees. I think it comes down to poor management at the top, a lack of planning, investment in juniors etc. It is the same clubs every year that are moaning about finances. The likes of Wakey might not have won anything, but they have had some decent seasons, yet Wakey Hudds, yorkshire, yorkshire, etc are alway first with the begging bowl

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    While I don't disagree with what you are saying,I think it goes a bit deeper than that. If we had a bad year and there were a few under KC. we wouldn't be on our knees. I think it comes down to poor management at the top, a lack of planning, investment in juniors etc. It is the same clubs every year that are moaning about finances. The likes of Wakey might not have won anything, but they have had some decent seasons, yet Wakey Hudds, yorkshire, yorkshire, etc are alway first with the begging bowl
    The thing is, not every club can win something. Same as in life, there's those who seem to continually do well, those who struggle and those in the middle. I always thought that was the idea of supporting at team, it's through thick and thin. The only time I've not really cared about our results was under Cunningham but it didn't mean I didn't care about the club, the opposite in fact, I wanted better than what we had and to be fair, that came.

    I do agree with your other points regarding management, planning and investment and for me it all stems from the Yorkshirecentric running of the game and idiots like Hetherington and that fat ••••••• who's name escapes me. Not only that but we've constantly tinkered with rules, relegation/licencing, play offs amongst other things. The thing is, we actually have a decent product if we play to the games strengths but we intent on ••••ing it up at every turn, usually down to self serving, incompetent people who are so far out of their depth it's hard to take seriously.

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    Learning All The Songs sinkers89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    While I don't disagree with what you are saying,I think it goes a bit deeper than that. If we had a bad year and there were a few under KC. we wouldn't be on our knees. I think it comes down to poor management at the top, a lack of planning, investment in juniors etc. It is the same clubs every year that are moaning about finances. The likes of Wakey might not have won anything, but they have had some decent seasons, yet Wakey Hudds, yorkshire, yorkshire, etc are alway first with the begging bowl
    We wouldnt be on our knees after 2 or 3 seasons because we have regular success if you will. But im almost positive tickets number fell during KC's reign.

    If we had continued to have no success over 10 year period, for example , and it begins to become the norm. From Poor management. Crowds dwindle. Less money comes in.

    Saints are fortunate to have some one who will run the club properly. I dread the day EM decides to call it a day

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulscnthorpe View Post
    ...Hopefully the money is distributed fairly, rather than simply it into 10 (would the UK government allow it to be shared with Catalans and Toronto)
    It's an interesting question, and the article does suggest that clubs from all three divisions can apply for loans, so could Toulouse apply too?
    I don't know who has control over this money. Doe's it stay with the State, or has it been passed to RFL to decide?

    I also wonder if this would have happened if the Tories hadn't taken so many seats in the North...Sorry for bringing politics into this thread DD!

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    It's an interesting question, and the article does suggest that clubs from all three divisions can apply for loans, so could Toulouse apply too?
    I don't know who has control over this money. Doe's it stay with the State, or has it been passed to RFL to decide?

    I also wonder if this would have happened if the Tories hadn't taken so many seats in the North...Sorry for bringing politics into this thread DD!
    Just seen a further report, it doesn't include foreign teams..

    Also Welsh teams may not have access either

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    It's an interesting question, and the article does suggest that clubs from all three divisions can apply for loans, so could Toulouse apply too?
    I don't know who has control over this money. Doe's it stay with the State, or has it been passed to RFL to decide?

    I also wonder if this would have happened if the Tories hadn't taken so many seats in the North...Sorry for bringing politics into this thread DD!
    The Rugby League decides where the money goes under the general guidance of Sport England/ CounciI . I suspect that will be some sort of compliance issue to make sure that it goes to the right places and not as some suggest to prop up already broken infrastructure. The club's like Blackbrook, with fully operational business premises will have already benefited from at least a £10,000 grant which should have been paid on the first day of lockdown, if they didn't qualify they could apply to Sports England to get the same sort of grant

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulscnthorpe View Post
    I think Saints could be hit worst than most, the loan should partly cover the loss of ticket revenue. However with saints having one the biggest average attendances, and also as the club has mentioned often, make more money off the field, we would struggle more than most.

    The only bonus we have is we have assets to loan against.

    Hopefully the money is distributed fairly, rather than simply it into 10 (would the UK government allow it to be shared with Catalans and Toronto)
    The government funding is basically because the sport supports the community, so the distrubution share should be based on that taking into account attendances and youth development. I can’t see the lower clubs getting an equal share.
    I think McManus will absorb the losses from the off field income streams because he is that type of bloke.

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    McManus is on radio Merseyside now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zippy View Post
    McManus is on radio Merseyside now.
    What did he have to say?

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    It was mentioned a few weeks that if all games were going to be behind closed doors, Sky would show the usual 2 or 3 games per week to to Sky Sport subscribers and the rest would be on pay per view.

    I've never bothered with PPV for boxing or any other events so I can't judge.

    Would every fan who would normally go to a game be prepared to pay the usual cost of a ticket to watch the game on PPV . If so it would bring in a fair bit of revenue but would fans be prepared to pay that much?

    If your a family or a group of mates watching together it would be quite a bit cheaper than going to a match.

    I think I'd pay it for a Saints game but I wouldn't pay that much to watch say Wakey v Hudds even though they can sometimes produce a good game.

    I don't know if the RFL have any thoughts on live streaming of Championship games on a PPV basis, they can sometimes be entertaining game and I wouldn't mind paying 4 or 5 quid to watch say Leigh v Featherstone but no more than that

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    It was mentioned a few weeks that if all games were going to be behind closed doors, Sky would show the usual 2 or 3 games per week to to Sky Sport subscribers and the rest would be on pay per view.

    I've never bothered with PPV for boxing or any other events so I can't judge.

    Would every fan who would normally go to a game be prepared to pay the usual cost of a ticket to watch the game on PPV . If so it would bring in a fair bit of revenue but would fans be prepared to pay that much?

    If your a family or a group of mates watching together it would be quite a bit cheaper than going to a match.

    I think I'd pay it for a Saints game but I wouldn't pay that much to watch say Wakey v Hudds even though they can sometimes produce a good game.

    I don't know if the RFL have any thoughts on live streaming of Championship games on a PPV basis, they can sometimes be entertaining game and I wouldn't mind paying 4 or 5 quid to watch say Leigh v Featherstone but no more than that
    I'd say it's more likely games like Wakey V Hudds would be on the TV and games involving bigger clubs wouldn't as they'd get more people paying for them. The other thing is, if there's a PPV game on, there's almost certainly a stream too and it wouldn't take long for people to get on to that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    What did he have to say?
    His main point was that it has hit Rugby League the hardest, because the season had only just started so the build up of revenue stream to fund each clubs finances had only just started unlike soccer and union where they were approaching the end of their respective seasons. He did express confidence in the manner in which the Rugby League would allocate the money. Like everyone else had no idea when the season would start again other than saying that players would have to be mentally as well as physically ready
    In respect of pay for view for once wouldn't it be in Sky's interest to screen the matches on one of their free channels like Sky Sports News initially they would get far higher advertisement revenue because of much higher viewing figures. I've read somewhere that there is a probability that several games per weekend and even midweek at the same venue, incurring less television technical teams, stadium officials deep cleaning etc. This may be shape of things to come for the first few rounds at least
    Last edited by Woolyback; 1st May 2020 at 15:46.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    I'd say it's more likely games like Wakey V Hudds would be on the TV and games involving bigger clubs wouldn't as they'd get more people paying for them. The other thing is, if there's a PPV game on, there's almost certainly a stream too and it wouldn't take long for people to get on to that.
    Usually Saints v Wigan/Wire/ Leeds are televised games but as you say they could change that around.

    Would you pay say £20 for Saints V Wigan on pay per view?

    The idea of the PPV is to keep the game financially viable, if fans start watching free streams then the clubs get less money and we end up with clubs going under.

    Obviously it wont work if BBC are continue with free highlights on Monday nights.

    Going to be interesting times.

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    Rimmer tells clubs not to 'dip thee bread'!

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...overnment-loan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    It was mentioned a few weeks that if all games were going to be behind closed doors, Sky would show the usual 2 or 3 games per week to to Sky Sport subscribers and the rest would be on pay per view.

    I've never bothered with PPV for boxing or any other events so I can't judge.

    Would every fan who would normally go to a game be prepared to pay the usual cost of a ticket to watch the game on PPV . If so it would bring in a fair bit of revenue but would fans be prepared to pay that much?

    If your a family or a group of mates watching together it would be quite a bit cheaper than going to a match.

    I think I'd pay it for a Saints game but I wouldn't pay that much to watch say Wakey v Hudds even though they can sometimes produce a good game.

    I don't know if the RFL have any thoughts on live streaming of Championship games on a PPV basis, they can sometimes be entertaining game and I wouldn't mind paying 4 or 5 quid to watch say Leigh v Featherstone but no more than that
    Assuming superleague clubs has video technical access another alternative is to pay £5.99 a month for Saints TV and watch the games 3 days later, that way you know monies are going direct to the club.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    Usually Saints v Wigan/Wire/ Leeds are televised games but as you say they could change that around.

    Would you pay say £20 for Saints V Wigan on pay per view?

    The idea of the PPV is to keep the game financially viable, if fans start watching free streams then the clubs get less money and we end up with clubs going under.

    Obviously it wont work if BBC are continue with free highlights on Monday nights.

    Going to be interesting times.
    For the derby then I probably would if I had no other option but I'd certainly look for that option first. £20 is a bit much I think, if it was £10 then I'd say fair enough and watch every Saints game without question.

    I know what you mean regarding streams but it's the whole population suffering, not just the clubs and people are always going to look to save money, but more so at the moment.

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    Got A Season Ticket scrogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    Usually Saints v Wigan/Wire/ Leeds are televised games but as you say they could change that around.

    Would you pay say £20 for Saints V Wigan on pay per view?

    The idea of the PPV is to keep the game financially viable, if fans start watching free streams then the clubs get less money and we end up with clubs going under.

    Obviously it wont work if BBC are continue with free highlights on Monday nights.

    Going to be interesting times.
    Another aspect to this which was mentioned a while back, is those of us with season tickets, which I would expect the majority on this forum have.
    As yet we have had 2 home games. Personally I have mine and my son’s tickets which cost just shy of £550, so I would not be happy to then have to pay even more in order to watch a televised game which I have already paid to attend.
    I understand there are many variables to take account of including loyalty and club viability, but it seems massively unfair to expect season ticket holders to take the brunt of the loss of live games and then pay even more.


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