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Thread: Coronavirus - Rugby League Implications

  1. #276
    In The West Stand Ralph Fridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ghost of '99 View Post
    Carter has literally said he is loathe to take on any of the money as it's just additional debt.
    But, you know, actually reading what people said is perhaps a bit too much effort?
    I know he did. I did read it what he said when Cyprus mentioned it. It's just that I can read between the lines as well.

    We will see if Wakefield take any of it. Carter has an issue with having to repay the money, so if Wakefield can manage without it, I've said I will hold my hands up.

    Thing is, I doubt very much they can manage without it. But time will tell. Also, if they take it & repay it, then fair enough as well. I just have my doubts. If Saints took their share of the money & didn't repay it then I would be fuming.

    I do wish people would listen to Bostik on this thread because he/she is right. He/She gets it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    Surely everyone understands what a loan means. Of course itÂ’s additional debt, and it looks like the RFL are going to want it repaid. I take it that is what Carter has an issue with.
    I can't quite understand the criticism of Carter, he's a very well respected accountant who rescued Wakefield 24 hours before it was due to be wound up by the High Court on behalf of HMRC, by ploughing a lot of his own money in as a lifelong supporter. Like all accountants he's cautious about taking on more debt even at less than 1percent, I criticise clubs as much as anyone else for not updating the grounds, but it's not his fault the ground is as it is it's the prevoius regimes, apparently he also has plans for a new ground but unlike Castleford you need success and a big fan base to start building, Wakefield dont have either We were so lucky to have Coleman who funded our ground from thousands of miles away. This money is to cover the shortfall of revenue income stream which would have been forthcoming over the current season lost particularly by the big clubs. It's not for grandiose schemes at this stage, it's all about survival, if Carter can keep his club going without it, good luck to him.,

  3. #278
    In The West Stand Ralph Fridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woolyback View Post
    I can't quite understand the criticism of Carter, he's a very well respected accountant who rescued Wakefield 24 hours before it was due to be wound up by the High Court on behalf of HMRC, by ploughing a lot of his own money in as a lifelong supporter. Like all accountants he's cautious about taking on more debt even at less than 1percent, I criticise clubs as much as anyone else for not updating the grounds, but it's not his fault the ground is as it is it's the prevoius regimes, apparently he also has plans for a new ground but unlike Castleford you need success and a big fan base to start building, Wakefield dont have either We were so lucky to have Coleman who funded our ground from thousands of miles away. This money is to cover the shortfall of revenue income stream which would have been forthcoming over the current season lost particularly by the big clubs. It's not for grandiose schemes at this stage, it's all about survival, if Carter can keep his club going without it, good luck to him.,
    The Governing Body of the sport has just had to go cap in hand to the Government to keep itself going for the short term.

    Then the owner of that flagship of success,Wakefield is saying 'oh I don't know about that, it's got to be paid back.' Well don't take it then. If they don't & survive, then I think it's a pretty incredible achievement.

    I have grave concerns about the money being paid back as well. Do I think it could lead to problems in the future? Yes.

    But:
    1. I don't think the sport had any choice.
    2. I am concerned that certain clubs will fritter that money away (Rimmer has already gone on record in a newspaper warming the money not to be squandered). However, I don't believe the RFL will keep proper tabs on it.
    3. Other clubs may have to carry the can.
    4. Will the RFL sanction the club(s) if should it happen, don't pay the money back?

    I don't think it is unreasonable to believe that point 4 may be more likely to be enforced if it was clubs on the west side of the Pennines that didn't make the payments rather than certain clubs on the eastern side. Wakey, Hull KR, Cas & Leeds got away with their grounds scott free (improvements at Hull KR & Leeds redevelopment coming much, much later) whilst others put themselves through the mill to get one. That seems to have been completely forgotten. There is previous to this & Licensing was made official. It then fell by the wayside when the RFL realised that there was no way it was going to be achieved at every SL club
    Regardless of the ins & outs of clubs acquiring new stadia, some took on the task that the governing body set out for them. Some did not bother or at least did not make a proper fist of it.
    Last edited by Ralph Fridge; 5th May 2020 at 09:33. Reason: SPG

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    What I find bizarre is the fact that one or two posters forget the pressure on Saints around 06-08. Constantly we as a club had massive pressure placed on us regarding Knowsley Road. Sky led the march encouraged by the RFL.

    I do get some of it was led by jealousy regarding our success, however the new stadium in effect cost us our success. The club had to downgrade on players etc. The thought we had a magic money tree to build Langtree is just wrong.

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    In The West Stand Ralph Fridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyprus View Post
    What I find bizarre is the fact that one or two posters forget the pressure on Saints around 06-08. Constantly we as a club had massive pressure placed on us regarding Knowsley Road. Sky led the march encouraged by the RFL.

    I do get some of it was led by jealousy regarding our success, however the new stadium in effect cost us our success. The club had to downgrade on players etc. The thought we had a magic money tree to build Langtree is just wrong.
    Exactly

  6. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woolyback View Post
    I can't quite understand the criticism of Carter, he's a very well respected accountant who rescued Wakefield 24 hours before it was due to be wound up by the High Court on behalf of HMRC, by ploughing a lot of his own money in as a lifelong supporter. Like all accountants he's cautious about taking on more debt even at less than 1percent, I criticise clubs as much as anyone else for not updating the grounds, but it's not his fault the ground is as it is it's the prevoius regimes, apparently he also has plans for a new ground but unlike Castleford you need success and a big fan base to start building, Wakefield dont have either We were so lucky to have Coleman who funded our ground from thousands of miles away. This money is to cover the shortfall of revenue income stream which would have been forthcoming over the current season lost particularly by the big clubs. It's not for grandiose schemes at this stage, it's all about survival, if Carter can keep his club going without it, good luck to him.,
    Quite, it's hard to understand; Carter literally mortgaged his house to support Wakefield (as Hetherington did to support Sheffield in their early days). The accusation appears to be that because clubs don't have rich owners to subsidise them the club or the owner can get some criticism. What Carter is saying is that he's not keen on the loans because the extra debt will be exactly that - he'd rather his club at least continued to cut its cloth so that it doesn't need it. Wakey is arguably the tightest and best run club in the league precisely because they can't afford to run at a loss.

    On the ground redevelopment issue, Cas and Wakey face the ongoing dilemma of what to do when you don't have the support of the local council. This is unique to them in SL - every other club from the Hull clubs to Saints to Wire to Leeds couldn't have improved their facilities without the support of the council. The pressure from Sky thing is interesting because it's well known Sky would rather show a game at Cas rather than at Huddersfield say; the difference may be that Saints were/are a club at the top whereas Cas and Wakey are usually lower level yo/yo teams which would never be certain to be in the top flight and Sky don't go there that often.

    Adding Leeds to the mix of clubs which didn't improve stadia is disingenuous because Headingley was the first, and probably only, stadium which complied with Framing the Future to the letter - and even before the redevelopment Leeds spent more upgrading it and keeping it in good condition than any other club spent on their stadias save for Saints and Warrington.

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    How have Featherstone a Village in the same council area made Post Office Road an absolute corker of a stadium? I am not having a go at you personally but Hethrington and Carter are in the Nigel Wood boat for me, frankly what's in it for me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyprus View Post
    How have Featherstone a Village in the same council area made Post Office Road an absolute corker of a stadium? I am not having a go at you personally but Hethrington and Carter are in the Nigel Wood boat for me, frankly what's in it for me!
    The Fev fans literally built POR themselves.
    But the second part is the problem - it's easy to sterotype these people without knowing them but Hetherington and Wood live and breathe Rugby League. Carter has a more transactional relationship with Wakefield but as Eamonn McManus and Mike Coleman would tell you, there's easier ways of making money than putting it all into a Rugby League club and without him they would be just another club struggling to survive.

    Hetherington's story is pretty amazing - he created a successful club using his own money out of nothing and has done everything in the game - player, club founder, top flight head coach, international coach, big club CEO. He knows the game inside out and has outsize influence because of it - which no doubt leads to conflicts but I don't think anyone in the game, even those who resent his influence, would suggest he doesn't love RL first and foremost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyprus View Post
    How have Featherstone a Village in the same council area made Post Office Road an absolute corker of a stadium? I am not having a go at you personally but Hethrington and Carter are in the Nigel Wood boat for me, frankly what's in it for me!
    Excuse my ignorance here as the last time I went to Featherstone was probably in the last millennium. I have watched games on TV from Post Office Road and it did seem an upgrade from previously but how is it an “absolute corker of a stadium”?

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    I went there a few years ago to watch a relative of my wife play in a youth game. The ground was virtually unrecognisable from the last time I had been, even the pitch had moved

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    The ghost of 99 gave us an insight into a Local Authority that presides over three RL teams. Two have not even upgraded the WC facilities for the travelling fans.

    The third team in the lower division took things into their own hands. Firstly buying two seated stands from a defunct football stadium, then they organised the transportation to Post Office Road. The stands were reconstructed by the community under the watchful eye of ex player Paul Coventry.

    The stadium which I was invited to on completion was gleaming seven thousand capacity with three thousand plus seats and superb disabled and hospitality areas.

    Is it Langtree Park or Headingley no it's not but compared to those other two, yes it's a absolute corker and it's all their own.

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    https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/spor...ailout-2842535

    So Carter criticised this before he knew the terms of the loan. The only thing that was made clear was that it isn’t for paying players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ghost of '99 View Post
    The Fev fans literally built POR themselves.
    But the second part is the problem - it's easy to sterotype these people without knowing them but Hetherington and Wood live and breathe Rugby League. Carter has a more transactional relationship with Wakefield but as Eamonn McManus and Mike Coleman would tell you, there's easier ways of making money than putting it all into a Rugby League club and without him they would be just another club struggling to survive.

    Hetherington's story is pretty amazing - he created a successful club using his own money out of nothing and has done everything in the game - player, club founder, top flight head coach, international coach, big club CEO. He knows the game inside out and has outsize influence because of it - which no doubt leads to conflicts but I don't think anyone in the game, even those who resent his influence, would suggest he doesn't love RL first and foremost.
    Hetherington yes, I can agree he has done a lot for RL in Yorkshire ( except selling the super league place of Sheffield to Huddersfield). He ensured Hull’s survival by closing the Gateshead team. at Leeds he used the smaller clubs as Leeds reserves so that Leeds had access to the majority of West Yorkshire youth development, and fought against a proper reserve league.

    Wood, everything that man has touched has gone south, Halifax were a good club till he ensured they followed his way to oblivion, his tenure at the RFL has seen the game go backwards.

    They may live and breath RL, but so do a lot of people who don’t have skill to run major organisations, or are absorbed in their own self promotion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    Hetherington yes, I can agree he has done a lot for RL in Yorkshire ( except selling the super league place of Sheffield to Huddersfield). He ensured Hull’s survival by closing the Gateshead team. at Leeds he used the smaller clubs as Leeds reserves so that Leeds had access to the majority of West Yorkshire youth development, and fought against a proper reserve league.
    Righty-oh so now it makes sense; you are, politely, mis-remembering. Hetherington sold Sheffield in 1996. It was the subsequent owners who turned his profitable club into loss making and then sold them to Huddersfield three years later. Hetherington was at Leeds by that stage. He also had nothing to do with Gateshead or Hull.

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    Carter not long since secured a loan from the council of 3.1 million that might be why he's cautious in taking out a further loan

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ghost of '99 View Post
    The Fev fans literally built POR themselves.
    But the second part is the problem - it's easy to sterotype these people without knowing them but Hetherington and Wood live and breathe Rugby League. Carter has a more transactional relationship with Wakefield but as Eamonn McManus and Mike Coleman would tell you, there's easier ways of making money than putting it all into a Rugby League club and without him they would be just another club struggling to survive.

    Hetherington's story is pretty amazing - he created a successful club using his own money out of nothing and has done everything in the game - player, club founder, top flight head coach, international coach, big club CEO. He knows the game inside out and has outsize influence because of it - which no doubt leads to conflicts but I don't think anyone in the game, even those who resent his influence, would suggest he doesn't love RL first and foremost.
    Wasn't the stand at Featherstone named after a Radio D J who's so famous I can't remember his name?

    I assumed he had made some sort of financial contribution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    Wasn't the stand at Featherstone named after a Radio D J who's so famous I can't remember his name?

    I assumed he had made some sort of financial contribution.
    Chris Moyes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    Chris Moyes?
    Could be, it seemed to be a double act with him and another bloke.

    the radio used to be on when I was at work and I was the grumpy old so & so who turned it down whenever I went past it, so I did't really take too much notice

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    Could be, it seemed to be a double act with him and another bloke.

    the radio used to be on when I was at work and I was the grumpy old so & so who turned it down whenever I went past it, so I did't really take too much notice
    They named the Stadium the 'Chris Moyles 'Stadium' when Chris Moyles was on Radio 1 as a publicity stunt. He didn't pay anything towards it.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by barry View Post
    They named the Stadium the 'Chris Moyles 'Stadium' when Chris Moyles was on Radio 1 as a publicity stunt. He didn't pay anything towards it.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    Thanks for the explanation

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    Chris Moyes?
    I'd love to punch him in the gob the unfunny big mouthed prat.

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    Quite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    I'd love to punch him in the gob the unfunny big mouthed prat.
    He is utter tedium isn't he?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    He is utter tedium isn't he?
    Self proclaimed saviour of bbc radio1. Utter tosser. He loves rugby league but he’s still a terrible personality.
    screaming in the family corner, scaring the kiddies

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    He is utter tedium isn't he?
    I don't know what he's doing these days but I used to have to turn the station over when he was on. I can hear his stupid voice right now.

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