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Thread: Paul Wellens

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    Ah right it goes on medals and loyalty to clubs therefore Ryan Bailey is the second best prop and JJB the best second row in SL.
    By the same measure Liam Farrell is better than Joynty and O`Loughlin better than Scully.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallaght Tiger View Post
    Ah right it goes on medals and loyalty to clubs therefore Ryan Bailey is the second best prop and JJB the best second row in SL.
    By the same measure Liam Farrell is better than Joynty and O`Loughlin better than Scully.
    You left out the all round ability part. How many Harry Sunderland & MOS awards have Ryan Bailey JJB & Liam Farrell got between them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tilly2006 View Post
    You left out the all round ability part. How many Harry Sunderland & MOS awards have Ryan Bailey JJB & Liam Farrell got between them?
    Which is why I posted that all in their full pomp, Sam Tomkins would be my choice for a match you had to win. He has the most natural ability from all of them.
    I think Liam Farrell won best window box display in Wigan tidy towns, Bailey got an award for cleanest cell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallaght Tiger View Post
    Which is why I posted that all in their full pomp, Sam Tomkins would be my choice for a match you had to win. He has the most natural ability from all of them.
    I think Liam Farrell won best window box display in Wigan tidy towns, Bailey got an award for cleanest cell.
    I would agree with you on that one. Wellens with pace would be the fantasy choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallaght Tiger View Post
    Which is why I posted that all in their full pomp, Sam Tomkins would be my choice for a match you had to win. He has the most natural ability from all of them.

    And yet, if you needed your fullback to make a last-ditch tackle close to the line just as the hooter is about to go when you're 2 points up, ratboy would be near the bottom of the list in who you'd want to be wearing No1.

    Wellens would be at or very close to the top.

    A FB's role is much more than just being a destructive runner, so it's wrong to just use that as the yardstick (and besides, Barba was a more destructive runner than ratboy)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    And yet, if you needed your fullback to make a last-ditch tackle close to the line just as the hooter is about to go when you're 2 points up, ratboy would be near the bottom of the list in who you'd want to be wearing No1.

    Wellens would be at or very close to the top.

    A FB's role is much more than just being a destructive runner, so it's wrong to just use that as the yardstick (and besides, Barba was a more destructive runner than ratboy)
    Indeed.

    Quite frankly there’s some embarrassing tripe on here; ‘If you needed x to win a game then you may go with Tomkins...’ Are these people in the right mind? I’m not sure I can remember Tomkins pulling the ‘rabbit’ out of the hat in recent memory too often; are we narrowing the margins to a couple of seasons? Risible.

    Let’s be clear. He had 2 maybe 3 good seasons and was a pathetic failure in the NRL. Put it this way if the opposition need a ‘match winner’ they’d just put the ball in the air and old butterfingers would give generously.

    For the most part of his career Tomkins has been B/B- grade. Yeah he had a couple of good years but hardly had the consistency of Wellens not Radlunski for that matter. By the same logic Paul Loughton was the best centre of the 80’s based on his 88,89 form? No thought not.

    Jesus. Some people need to give their head a wobble. Form temporary, class permanent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Ged View Post
    Did Tomkins get his knee injury by going in with it on a tackled player ?.
    I dont know but Tommy Martin had two knee reconstructions and was still a better player.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    And yet, if you needed your fullback to make a last-ditch tackle close to the line just as the hooter is about to go when you're 2 points up, ratboy would be near the bottom of the list in who you'd want to be wearing No1.

    Wellens would be at or very close to the top.

    A FB's role is much more than just being a destructive runner, so it's wrong to just use that as the yardstick (and besides, Barba was a more destructive runner than ratboy)
    Lots of different measures being used, some nothing to do with playing ability rather personality and location of birth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Indeed.

    Quite frankly there’s some embarrassing tripe on here; ‘If you needed x to win a game then you may go with Tomkins...’ Are these people in the right mind? I’m not sure I can remember Tomkins pulling the ‘rabbit’ out of the hat in recent memory too often; are we narrowing the margins to a couple of seasons? Risible.

    Let’s be clear. He had 2 maybe 3 good seasons and was a pathetic failure in the NRL. Put it this way if the opposition need a ‘match winner’ they’d just put the ball in the air and old butterfingers would give generously.

    For the most part of his career Tomkins has been B/B- grade. Yeah he had a couple of good years but hardly had the consistency of Wellens not Radlunski for that matter. By the same logic Paul Loughton was the best centre of the 80’s based on his 88,89 form? No thought not.

    Jesus. Some people need to give their head a wobble. Form temporary, class permanent.
    Would you think a breakthrough season and 3 seasons is enough to say class rather than form ? From what I recall his defence was very good and I cannot recall him dropping too many bombs.
    It is my opinion Sam Tomkins was a better FB than Wello in them seasons, rather than use the NRL as a stick to beat him with why not ask would Wello`s lack of pace been a hinderance if he had gone there. In an Ashes series Lockyear scorched him and he was getting on then and the 2007 GF Webb ran through our lad close to the line and Donald handed him his arse on the outside in the same game.
    All players have bad moments/games that can be highlighted, it is my opinion that Sam Tomkins was an excellent full back in them seasons (and his defence was certainly better than Barba`s)
    I thought Wello was a brilliant FB for us but his lack of pace was cruelly exposed at times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallaght Tiger View Post
    Would you think a breakthrough season and 3 seasons is enough to say class rather than form ? From what I recall his defence was very good and I cannot recall him dropping too many bombs.
    It is my opinion Sam Tomkins was a better FB than Wello in them seasons, rather than use the NRL as a stick to beat him with why not ask would Wello`s lack of pace been a hinderance if he had gone there. In an Ashes series Lockyear scorched him and he was getting on then and the 2007 GF Webb ran through our lad close to the line and Donald handed him his arse on the outside in the same game.
    All players have bad moments/games that can be highlighted, it is my opinion that Sam Tomkins was an excellent full back in them seasons (and his defence was certainly better than Barba`s)
    I thought Wello was a brilliant FB for us but his lack of pace was cruelly exposed at times.
    You seem to be using a comparative here of Tomkins 3 good years against Wello's 3 poor years, I certainly wouldn't put his defence in the very good category and he has also dropped bombs a plenty in his career. In fact Tomkins has dropped more bombs in one game than Wello has in a complete season.

    There is no doubt that Tomkins is a more elusive attacking player because of his pace but Wello makes up for that in his intelligent reading of the game and to score 240 tries in his career is proof of that. Quite a few posters on here have already mentioned that you need a lot more attributes than just to be a destructive player and one of those is a defensive capability to make that great overall player.

    I seem to remember last season Tomkins had a nightmare against Walmsley to the point he shyed out of a first man in tackle that's something Wello would never ever do, the Willie Mason attempted tackle was proof of that.

    So going back to the original point Tomkins has had 3 very good seasons out of 12 career years so far and Wellens has had 3 poor seasons out of his 17 career years, both are class players but that diminishes if you can't give a top consistent performance week in week out, that's one of the reasons all of rugby league called Wello as a player "Mr Dependable" in comparison Tomkins is more of a "Jeckyll and Hyde" character brilliant one minute and grossly ratty in the other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    You seem to be using a comparative here of Tomkins 3 good years against Wello's 3 poor years, I certainly wouldn't put his defence in the very good category and he has also dropped bombs a plenty in his career. In fact Tomkins has dropped more bombs in one game than Wello has in a complete season.

    There is no doubt that Tomkins is a more elusive attacking player because of his pace but Wello makes up for that in his intelligent reading of the game and to score 240 tries in his career is proof of that. Quite a few posters on here have already mentioned that you need a lot more attributes than just to be a destructive player and one of those is a defensive capability to make that great overall player.

    I seem to remember last season Tomkins had a nightmare against Walmsley to the point he shyed out of a first man in tackle that's something Wello would never ever do, the Willie Mason attempted tackle was proof of that

    So going back to the original point Tomkins has had 3 very good seasons out of 12 career years so far and Wellens has had 3 poor seasons out of his 17 career years, both are class players but that diminishes if you can't give a top consistent performance week in week out, that's one of the reasons all of rugby league called Wello as a player "Mr Dependable" in comparison Tomkins is more of a "Jeckyll and Hyde" character brilliant one minute and grossly ratty in the other.
    I am not comparing three seasons for or against Stiddy, merely giving my opinion that I would have Tomkins at that time over Wello during his best times for a must win game.
    There have been comments that his dirty tactics or former misdemeanours somehow take away from his abilities.
    I posted early on that in my opinion there is not much between Paul Wellens and Kris Radlinski, they are similar with the only difference that Wello was better offensively near the line, Radlinski further out, as has been pointed out.
    I would pick Wello of those two yes, but the 2009-2011 Tomkins was virtually unplayable and would edge it for me in a must win game.
    If some perceive this as evidence I need help with my head there are plenty of other more valid reasons to confirm that view is correct

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    You seem to be using a comparative here of Tomkins 3 good years against Wello's 3 poor years, I certainly wouldn't put his defence in the very good category and he has also dropped bombs a plenty in his career. In fact Tomkins has dropped more bombs in one game than Wello has in a complete season.

    There is no doubt that Tomkins is a more elusive attacking player because of his pace but Wello makes up for that in his intelligent reading of the game and to score 240 tries in his career is proof of that. Quite a few posters on here have already mentioned that you need a lot more attributes than just to be a destructive player and one of those is a defensive capability to make that great overall player.

    I seem to remember last season Tomkins had a nightmare against Walmsley to the point he shyed out of a first man in tackle that's something Wello would never ever do, the Willie Mason attempted tackle was proof of that.

    So going back to the original point Tomkins has had 3 very good seasons out of 12 career years so far and Wellens has had 3 poor seasons out of his 17 career years, both are class players but that diminishes if you can't give a top consistent performance week in week out, that's one of the reasons all of rugby league called Wello as a player "Mr Dependable" in comparison Tomkins is more of a "Jeckyll and Hyde" character brilliant one minute and grossly ratty in the other.
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    I don't think Wello had any poor years it's just that he was always compared to when he was at his world class best, very similar to Steven Gerrard at Liverpool, it's when people set the bar so high.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Newlove View Post
    I don't think Wello had any poor years it's just that he was always compared to when he was at his world class best, very similar to Steven Gerrard at Liverpool, it's when people set the bar so high.
    True the bar was set very high by Wello, but I do remember towards the end of his career he had a couple of seasons were he struggled defending one on one and the opposition fans goaded on RLfans that he had arms clutching like a windmill. In another season most fans on here and including myself saw him as a season too far but in honesty he had lost the No 1 shirt and was playing half back and back row. Can't fault his attitude though for all those 17 career years great ambassador for that full back position.

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    Wellens was never quick but I think for most of his career he wasnt as slow as he looked or as people made out. He could cover some ground and would always be there in support when a break was made.

    As he got into his late 20s he did get really slow, though, and I think that affected his defence - he started having to overcommit because he didnt have the wheels to show players the outside, so you started to see him getting stepped, which from 1999-2006 basically never happened.

    What a career, though. A club legend, without doubt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    Wellens was never quick but I think for most of his career he wasn’t as slow as he looked or as people made out. He could cover some ground and would always be there in support when a break was made.

    As he got into his late 20s he did get really slow, though, and I think that affected his defence - he started having to overcommit because he didn’t have the wheels to show players the outside, so you started to see him getting stepped, which from 1999-2006 basically never happened.

    What a career, though. A club legend, without doubt.
    For me an all time great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallaght Tiger View Post
    Would you think a breakthrough season and 3 seasons is enough to say class rather than form ? From what I recall his defence was very good and I cannot recall him dropping too many bombs.
    It is my opinion Sam Tomkins was a better FB than Wello in them seasons, rather than use the NRL as a stick to beat him with why not ask would Wello`s lack of pace been a hinderance if he had gone there. In an Ashes series Lockyear scorched him and he was getting on then and the 2007 GF Webb ran through our lad close to the line and Donald handed him his arse on the outside in the same game.
    All players have bad moments/games that can be highlighted, it is my opinion that Sam Tomkins was an excellent full back in them seasons (and his defence was certainly better than Barba`s)
    I thought Wello was a brilliant FB for us but his lack of pace was cruelly exposed at times.
    Was it against Steve Renouf? Or Brett Dallas? Or Gareth Raynor? Alternatively when Wellens went in on Mason or stopped that NZ forward from 5 metres out in a MOM performance at Huddersfield.
    We can all pick out moments when someone’s been done. If I’m honest Radlinski was a great cover tackler but watch him in the 2000 semi - embarrassment.
    Yet if a prop ran at Tomkins he’d jump out of the way and I don’t think his defence has ever been strong all round. He is certainly not in the same league as the other 2. He’s hidden behind a knee complaint when the likes of Tommy Martyn had 2 knee reconstructions and still came back a top player.
    Last edited by eddiewaringsflatcap; 6th April 2020 at 06:51.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Was it against Steve Renouf? Or Brett Dallas? Or Gareth Raynor? Alternatively when Wellens went in on Mason or stopped that NZ forward from 5 metres out in a MOM performance at Huddersfield.
    We can all pick out moments when someone’s been done. If I’m honest Radlinski was a great cover tackler but watch him in the 2000 semi - embarrassment.
    Yet if a prop ran at Tomkins he’d jump out of the way and I don’t think his defence has ever been strong all round. He is certainly not in the same league as the other 2. He’s hidden behind a knee complaint when the likes of Tommy Martyn had 2 knee reconstructions and still came back a top player.
    Tomkins was good at catching player when he was coming from behind or at an angle, terrible if a player was coming at him head on. Not fit to lace Wellens boots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    Tomkins was good at catching player when he was coming from behind or at an angle, terrible if a player was coming at him head on. Not fit to lace Wellens boots.
    Precisely.

    Because a well known cherry & white specs wearing Wiganer has come out with some tripe, we've ended up with Tomkins being up there with Billy Slater.

    Nonsense. Tomkins is/was distinctly average & Wellens was a cut above. As was Radlinski. Sure, Wellens & Radlinski never went to Aus, but Tomkins did, & he failed. Miserably.

    He benefited from the competition over here being utter garbage from 2010 to 2013.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Was it against Steve Renouf? Or Brett Dallas? Or Gareth Raynor? Alternatively when Wellens went in on Mason or stopped that NZ forward from 5 metres out in a MOM performance at Huddersfield.
    We can all pick out moments when someone’s been done. If I’m honest Radlinski was a great cover tackler but watch him in the 2000 semi - embarrassment.
    Yet if a prop ran at Tomkins he’d jump out of the way and I don’t think his defence has ever been strong all round. He is certainly not in the same league as the other 2. He’s hidden behind a knee complaint when the likes of Tommy Martyn had 2 knee reconstructions and still came back a top player.
    Eddie my point was that all players can have moments when they have been done, the example was that Wello has suffered also.
    It is just my opinion that for a few seasons in the early part of the last decade Tomkins would have been my first choice fullback over Wello in his pomp.
    If that is tripe, embarrassing, need my head wobbling or puts me in the catagory of out of my mind that is also just your opinion.
    I thought Tommy came back from 3 knee recons, if I recall one was suffered whilst on International duty midweek after the 1997 Wembley victory when he won the Lance Todd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    And yet, if you needed your fullback to make a last-ditch tackle close to the line just as the hooter is about to go when you're 2 points up, ratboy would be near the bottom of the list in who you'd want to be wearing No1.

    Wellens would be at or very close to the top.

    A FB's role is much more than just being a destructive runner, so it's wrong to just use that as the yardstick (and besides, Barba was a more destructive runner than ratboy)


    Ah yes, but Ratboy would be the first in with the knees with a last ditch tackle, when the opponent was in the act of scoring and already over the line!

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