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Thread: Woolf - Is he the right man?

  1. #1
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    Default Woolf - Is he the right man?

    All we saw today was a series of shots of him looking utterly confused. We saw the half time being led by Louie McCarthy Scarsbrook with Woolf looking very confused. We saw Jack Welsbly, bless him, being destroyed again and having his confidence further eroded. There are tons of options for that centre spot, picking an actual centre from the academy is one, another is playing a more senior player out of position. We conceeded four tries down Welsby's channel and all of them contributed to either directly by Welsby's inability to tackle or by other players over compensating for their lack of trust in him and not doing the right things. Yet all Woolf did was look confused, as if he was surprised by it. He did nothing, leaving him there to suffer all game.

    Sometimes in sport there are teams that have a certain way of playing and a certain culture. After the dour years of Brown, Simmonds and Cunningham, Holhrook just got it. He spent the time getting to know the club and the town and the history of the place. He changed the club from top to bottom, putting back what made us great. Woolf has come over with his cocky smirk and arrogant mannerisms and seems to believe he can just copy and paste a generic NRL formula into place and we'll walk this pathetic English league. He seems completely and utterly out of his depth. He's never coached a first grade team and it's showing. A couple of great wins as Tonga coach and we've given him a role he's not capable of undertaking. When you've not got Jason Taumalolo and his 20 stone friends fired up to play for their country you actually have to think.

    Although events in the country look like they might cause a massive disruption to the season if things develop this week, it isn't looking good for us. I can't see where another away win is going to come from this season and the top two already looks beyond us, especially if we're hammered next week by Leeds which looks inevitable.

    I feel daft for suggesting Woolf isn't going to be a success at this stage of the season, but there has just been no signs of life from the team at all. If we could see the potential in his way of playing and it just wasn't quite clicking then fine, but there is just nothing to be positive about. How long do you leave it before you finally admit it's not going to work? Is Woolf man enough to admit it's not and change things?

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    Yes he’s got to go. Dreadful in attack, dreadful tackling, continually letting sides offload, woeful kicking game. Knowles at centre bizarre, Welsby at centre dreadful idea.

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    Six games is no time at all to judge a coach (seven if you count the WCC but frankly, we were the underdogs in that match even with it being at home). Holbrook didn't have a brilliant first regular season. I'm not saying that yes, Woolf is the right man, only that I think overreacting in the early stages only leads one way, and that's down.

    It's worth looking at the first six results under Holbrook: https://www.skysports.com/st-helens-results/2017-18

    Obviously, we are coming into Woolf's reign from a position of strength which we weren't when Justin arrived, but his first results weren't great either.

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    I started the "Your Take on KRISTIAN WOOLF after 5 Games" thread because I had a feeling this was coming as we started to look a completely different team from last year. The players don't look happy and are not working for one another with the exception of the Roosters game. We seem to be two teams at the moment, a set of forwards and a set of backs, Coote looked a bit better in the second half but overall our whole back line are coming up with too many dumb plays.

    In the short term Woolf is really struggling in all departments its going too be very tough on him but he definitely needs to change our attacking structure before he gets blinkered and stuck in a rut like Cunningham.

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    I hope you lads get more than 5 weeks to prove yourselves in your jobs. Woolf is not the one dropping the ball or missing tackles or getting sin binned. We have our old problem of composure cropping up.

    I love Theo but he is not and probably will never be a top 7 I think we need to give Dodd a shot to get us on the front foot and give us a better kicking game.

    I did think Liam Moore was very inconsistent we had two lads sin binned but the two head shots on our lads were much worse and should have been dealt with. You can't play with 12 for 20 mins against a rampant cas with all their skills and quarterback pasing.
    Learned comment from The Don

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    Let Woolf go now. It works both ways. When we bring over Australian players and coaches, they do well and immediately go back to Australia. So don't bother showing Woolf any loyalty, send him back now, and replace him with Ian Watson. He has the forwards doing the backs work and the backs doing the forwards work. Lets start the debate now,James Roby has played his best games for us, but its time to step aside. We are desperate for new blood.

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    with every passing game I think we have made a massive mistake in appointing him. Players not playing for him. Pining for JH.

    With a bit of luck the season will be written off

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Heretic View Post
    Six games is no time at all to judge a coach (seven if you count the WCC but frankly, we were the underdogs in that match even with it being at home). Holbrook didn't have a brilliant first regular season. I'm not saying that yes, Woolf is the right man, only that I think overreacting in the early stages only leads one way, and that's down.

    It's worth looking at the first six results under Holbrook: https://www.skysports.com/st-helens-results/2017-18

    Obviously, we are coming into Woolf's reign from a position of strength which we weren't when Justin arrived, but his first results weren't great either.
    The difference of course is that Holbrook came to a club in a state of chaos. He clearly spent time establishing a new ethos for the playing style having got to know them. He won over the town as a whole. Whereas Woolf has inherited a Champion side that swept its way to the title. He clearly doesn’t know the players as if he did he wouldn’t be doing what he’s doing with them. He’s come in with pre-conceived ideas that he’s trying to cut & paste, he’s decimating young Welsby’s morale & potentially his career playing him in positions he has no clue in playing. The wingers have no ball, the forwards are disjointed, we’re slowing the ball down in the tackle. Of course as it stands he’s a wrong pick for the club. He needs to accept this very soon, clear the air with the players & start recovering the ground he’s lost us.


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    He needs time and support. My fear is its 2014 all over again we win a cup then Rushy and Eamon bolster the finances and baton down the hatches. All of a sudden it was Owens on one wing and Dawson on the other now both in the lower league their natural level.

    This is a team showing its age and the youngster in the mix was destroyed today and that bit was the fault of Wolfe all ends up. Wolfe needs to now get down to some work and if he needs to bring his own number 2 in so be it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legman View Post
    The difference of course is that Holbrook came to a club in a state of chaos. He clearly spent time establishing a new ethos for the playing style having got to know them. He won over the town as a whole. Whereas Woolf has inherited a Champion side that swept its way to the title. He clearly doesn’t know the players as if he did he wouldn’t be doing what he’s doing with them. He’s come in with pre-conceived ideas that he’s trying to cut & paste, he’s decimating young Welsby’s morale & potentially his career playing him in positions he has no clue in playing. The wingers have no ball, the forwards are disjointed, we’re slowing the ball down in the tackle. Of course as it stands he’s a wrong pick for the club. He needs to accept this very soon, clear the air with the players & start recovering the ground he’s lost us.


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    Which I already stated in my original post. As I said, I'm not sure that Woolf is the right man for the job, only time can tell that, but time is the key word. No fair judgement can be made on anybody after a handful of weeks in a new job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Don View Post
    I hope you lads get more than 5 weeks to prove yourselves in your jobs. Woolf is not the one dropping the ball or missing tackles or getting sin binned. We have our old problem of composure cropping up.

    I love Theo but he is not and probably will never be a top 7 I think we need to give Dodd a shot to get us on the front foot and give us a better kicking game.

    I did think Liam Moore was very inconsistent we had two lads sin binned but the two head shots on our lads were much worse and should have been dealt with. You can't play with 12 for 20 mins against a rampant cas with all their skills and quarterback pasing.
    Exactly. In terms of composure, I've been wondering whether some of the players are believing their own hype from last season as some of the errors they've been making are way below the level you'd expect in SL. Also, as you rightly point out, Cas are flying and nobody is going to have an easy time of it playing there this year.

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    The only thing he was missing today ,other than his team being slapped about the pitch, was a giant set of silly head phones.

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    Default No simple as that

    In the games ive seen other than the Salford match on opening night we have looked clueless in attack. It is clear that Fage is not a scrum half and Lomax is the sole source of our attack. Welsby needs a rest in the stands, he has been woeful since the WCC and looks lost in confidence, today was just another highlight of this.

    The team look as clueless and showing sign of attitude from when KV was in charge. Something is clearly not right within the group and has only seemed to appear since JH has left.

    Is it Woolf? The answer would have to be yes as players dont go from the performances of last year to these so far in 2020 unless the ethos, training or tactics change.
    Saints until i Die!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Don View Post
    I hope you lads get more than 5 weeks to prove yourselves in your jobs. Woolf is not the one dropping the ball or missing tackles or getting sin binned. We have our old problem of composure cropping up.
    Don’t be ridiculous, he hasn’t been in charge for 5 weeks he’s been in charge for closer to 5 months. He’s had a full pre season with a team that was miles better than every other and made them a lot worse. Obviously he isn’t the one dropping ball, he’s not a player so that’s stating the obvious but as head coach he is responsible for the collective performance of the team and his team is failing badly at present.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legman View Post
    The difference of course is that Holbrook came to a club in a state of chaos. He clearly spent time establishing a new ethos for the playing style having got to know them. He won over the town as a whole. Whereas Woolf has inherited a Champion side that swept its way to the title. He clearly doesn’t know the players as if he did he wouldn’t be doing what he’s doing with them. He’s come in with pre-conceived ideas that he’s trying to cut & paste, he’s decimating young Welsby’s morale & potentially his career playing him in positions he has no clue in playing. The wingers have no ball, the forwards are disjointed, we’re slowing the ball down in the tackle. Of course as it stands he’s a wrong pick for the club. He needs to accept this very soon, clear the air with the players & start recovering the ground he’s lost us.


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    I really hope he can turn it around, but I fear your points are all correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintH517 View Post
    Don’t be ridiculous, he hasn’t been in charge for 5 weeks he’s been in charge for closer to 5 months. He’s had a full pre season with a team that was miles better than every other and made them a lot worse. Obviously he isn’t the one dropping ball, he’s not a player so that’s stating the obvious but as head coach he is responsible for the collective performance of the team and his team is failing badly at present.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintH517 View Post
    Don’t be ridiculous, he hasn’t been in charge for 5 weeks he’s been in charge for closer to 5 months. He’s had a full pre season with a team that was miles better than every other and made them a lot worse. Obviously he isn’t the one dropping ball, he’s not a player so that’s stating the obvious but as head coach he is responsible for the collective performance of the team and his team is failing badly at present.
    Woolf also mentioned many months ago that he didn,t need to change too much but he has. Holbrook,s preperation was to make us into a very fit mobile team and his approach was to do a lot of passing skills work to throw lots of shapes at the opposition.

    What we have now is a very lethargic team overplaying the wrestle game with all the ill discipline that comes with it, our passing skills are atrocious which destroys our completions.

    After 7 games we should be showing signs of improving performance when in reality we are going backwards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Woolf also mentioned many months ago that he didn,t need to change too much but he has. Holbrook,s preperation was to make us into a very fit mobile team and his approach was to do a lot of passing skills work to throw lots of shapes at the opposition.

    What we have now is a very lethargic team overplaying the wrestle game with all the ill discipline that comes with it, our passing skills are atrocious which destroys our completions.

    After 7 games we should be showing signs of improving performance when in reality we are going backwards.
    It's a very good point - I discussed the same point with my dad when we were leaving the ground earlier. I just said "What exactly has changed so much for us to go from being so good, to being so poor". I said to dad that in my opinion he had an amazing blueprint to work with, and we needed to maybe improve on what, 3-5% of what we did last season, to kick on again. Truth is, we are an absolute shadow of the team we were last season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Don View Post
    I hope you lads get more than 5 weeks to prove yourselves in your jobs. Woolf is not the one dropping the ball or missing tackles or getting sin binned. We have our old problem of composure cropping up.

    I love Theo but he is not and probably will never be a top 7 I think we need to give Dodd a shot to get us on the front foot and give us a better kicking game.

    I did think Liam Moore was very inconsistent we had two lads sin binned but the two head shots on our lads were much worse and should have been dealt with. You can't play with 12 for 20 mins against a rampant cas with all their skills and quarterback pasing.
    Problem is someone who has basically had a pre-season to prepare, having taken over a group of players that strolled to the title, then put that pre-season prep into action for 5 top flight matches as the reigning champions is inviting criticism. Professional Sport is harsh & sometimes cruel that’s why they’re highly rewarded, more so at the top of the sport than the bottom. It’s simply unacceptable for him not to be up to speed after 5 matches when he’s had time to prepare, he hasn’t just had 5 weeks. If the problems were solved today or we could see the improvement then fine. But there is no improvement. The forwards were underwhelming & the backs had no zip, the set up on the LHS was disgraceful, this is Saints not Swinton.


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    Playing devils advocate. Maybe this group of players have become complacent? Last season they steam rolled teams when playing at 70%.

    We see it time and time again in sport. After a successful season, it’s difficult for players to keep that intensity, hunger and level of performance.

    I still think it was a mistake not to strengthen / freshen up the squad in the off season.

    Alex Ferguson always said that it was important to strengthen after success to make sure you stay ahead of the opposition and to keep the hunger and competition for places within the squad.

    I don’t see that hunger at the moment.


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    Quote Originally Posted by undertheradar View Post
    Playing devils advocate. Maybe this group of players have become complacent? Last season they steam rolled teams when playing at 70%.

    We see it time and time again in sport. After a successful season, it’s difficult for players to keep that intensity, hunger and level of performance.

    I still think it was a mistake not to strengthen / freshen up the squad in the off season.

    Alex Ferguson always said that it was important to strengthen after success to make sure you stay ahead of the opposition and to keep the hunger and competition for places within the squad.

    I don’t see that hunger at the moment.


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    Fair point this, he’s also picking the same players when there’s clearly an issue with form of some of them. Anyone in the squad not getting a fair crack as they might see it must be tugging their hair out. Why are they in the squad if he’s no intention of shuffling the pack? He doesn’t seem to be an inclusive coach as Holbrook was.


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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Woolf also mentioned many months ago that he didn,t need to change too much but he has. Holbrook,s preperation was to make us into a very fit mobile team and his approach was to do a lot of passing skills work to throw lots of shapes at the opposition.

    What we have now is a very lethargic team overplaying the wrestle game with all the ill discipline that comes with it, our passing skills are atrocious which destroys our completions.

    After 7 games we should be showing signs of improving performance when in reality we are going backwards.
    With regard to the passing and throwing different shapes at the opposition, I was thinking about that during the game and wondering, is this a result of Longy leaving?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Heretic View Post
    Six games is no time at all to judge a coach (seven if you count the WCC but frankly, we were the underdogs in that match even with it being at home). Holbrook didn't have a brilliant first regular season. I'm not saying that yes, Woolf is the right man, only that I think overreacting in the early stages only leads one way, and that's down.

    It's worth looking at the first six results under Holbrook: https://www.skysports.com/st-helens-results/2017-18

    Obviously, we are coming into Woolf's reign from a position of strength which we weren't when Justin arrived, but his first results weren't great either.
    Im not sure what your getting at. Holbrook took over from KC at which point the side was a shambles and battered Hull in his first match in charge. After his first 6 games I think Saints won 4 and lost 2.
    We ended the season a kick away from reaching the GF at a ground we had been humiliated on under KC. Holbrook’s first season was a remarkable success by my recollection.
    Last edited by eddiewaringsflatcap; 16th March 2020 at 01:52.

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    Got A Replica Shirt Saintsuzi's Avatar
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    You have to remember that Holbrook came in when the team wasn't playing well so of course those first few results weren't good. Woolf has come in with a damn good team firing on all cylinders but we're not anymore. Cas played like we were playing last season but we looked clueless for most of the game. We had no answers or ideas to stop Cas and it's worrying how we've become so bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saintsuzi View Post
    You have to remember that Holbrook came in when the team wasn't playing well so of course those first few results weren't good. Woolf has come in with a damn good team firing on all cylinders but we're not anymore. Cas played like we were playing last season but we looked clueless for most of the game. We had no answers or ideas to stop Cas and it's worrying how we've become so bad.
    Werent good? We hammered Hull 45-0 and beat Wigan the next match!

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    Im not going to comment on Woolf just yet but i do wonder how much we're missing Sean Long.



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