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Thread: Corona virus strikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    No idea about the veracity, but the story from people working in Wuhan is that members of the Chinese military working at the Biological warfare plant there, regularly sell animals at the market that were supposed to have been put to death. As I said I don't know if this is true but it came from people working there.
    I heard similar myself. As said previously I have a mate that lives in China and he's told me all kinds of stories over the years. It's probably not the time now but I've been thinking about it all week and something doesn't add up in all of this. Not just that but why do the Chinese feel the need to eat all kinds of potentially dangerous and disgusting things? It's not like there's a famine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I think it was a few years ago they said something similar that the SARS outbreak came from the virus testing on animals, one of the lab test leaders was selling off the animals to the markets.

    When this is all over I should imagine there will be questions on why 1.6 million people from the west capitalists countries have been infected with the virus whilst China is less than 100k. Also China will recover quickly with their economy whilst the wests economies will be in tatters for a couple of years.
    Yeah the things is though, the Chinese are hardly likely to be honest about how many died. They apparently knew about this back in November and didn't bother telling anyone although that also seems convenient.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    Yeah the things is though, the Chinese are hardly likely to be honest about how many died. They apparently knew about this back in November and didn't bother telling anyone although that also seems convenient.
    Thats very true, the Chinese pegged their "official" figure to 80k not knowing that America has gone out to 0.5 million and still counting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Thats very true, the Chinese pegged their "official" figure to 80k not knowing that America has gone out to 0.5 million and still counting.
    I find that figure very hard to believe

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    It's quite annoying me that I'd love some spare ribs and duck from Treasure City right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    I’m not certain the government could have done much differently given the inability/unwillingness of many of the population to follow some simple instructions. Aside from those who can’t see the problems associated with mass gatherings, my experience has been that many are incapable of staying 2m apart while virtually every aisle within the supermarkets have someone travelling against the one way flow. I’ve heard people whinge about the measures, claiming they are rubbish or questioning the point of them, so given such stupidity what do people expect the governing powers to do? Needless to say, my wife and I have probably contracted the virus, with raking coughs and high temperatures, so have had to self isolate since Sunday. The only frustrations are that we are obviously unsure whether we are definitely suffering from Covd-19 and unaware of which contact was responsible.
    Hope you and your wife are feeling better. Agree with most of what you say but I think the UK government could and should have acted sooner. That has to have cost a lot of lives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by singe View Post
    Hope you and your wife are feeling better. Agree with most of what you say but I think the UK government could and should have acted sooner. That has to have cost a lot of lives.
    They could have locked down sooner but if people don't obey it when we have deaths of 10,000 would they have obeyed it when it was a couple of dozen.

    I've lost track of the dates but the weekend of Saints last game against Cas I think the total fatalities was about 30.

    In the absence of a vaccine there's no simple answer to this, I'm afraid there's going to be a lot more pain before we're through it and the knock on effects are going to last for years

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    They could have locked down sooner but if people don't obey it when we have deaths of 10,000 would they have obeyed it when it was a couple of dozen.

    I've lost track of the dates but the weekend of Saints last game against Cas I think the total fatalities was about 30.

    In the absence of a vaccine there's no simple answer to this, I'm afraid there's going to be a lot more pain before we're through it and the knock on effects are going to last for years
    That's a very good point, even now at say 20,000 actual deaths (including those likely out of hospital) it's sitting at about 0.03 of the population (based on 65m) that have died.. as incredibly sad as it is to those who have lost someone, particularly those long before their time, that's a lot of people who still seem to think this is something in the papers and see on the news.

    We've seen so many stories of people getting it because they believed they were untouchable

    The longer it goes on, the less likely people are to observe it..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    They could have locked down sooner but if people don't obey it when we have deaths of 10,000 would they have obeyed it when it was a couple of dozen.

    I've lost track of the dates but the weekend of Saints last game against Cas I think the total fatalities was about 30.

    In the absence of a vaccine there's no simple answer to this, I'm afraid there's going to be a lot more pain before we're through it and the knock on effects are going to last for years
    Apparently over the last 5 years the average death rate from normal flu is 17000 the lowest year being 1700 and the highest 28000. If we didn't have lockdown I suppose we would be over the 28000 by now, when this is over we need to lockdown China economically for 5 years until they clean up their act on being a source of "all ills".

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    Got to have another bloody week off work.

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    What we are about to go through in these weeks, show how ill prepared this country has been regarding this Pandemic. The Tories will never be able to point the blame at anyone or anything other than their own pis poor preparation for what, they, knew was coming!

    Figures underestimated, NHS staff blamed for using too much PPE, Care Home deaths not in the figures?

    As Burke said ' When bad men combine, the good must associate, else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.'
    Last edited by Jackbit; 13th April 2020 at 22:05.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackbit View Post
    What we are about to go through in these weeks, show how ill prepared this country has been regarding this Pandemic. The Tories will never be able to point the blame at anyone or anything other than their own pis poor preparation for what, they, knew was coming!

    Figures underestimated, NHS staff blamed for using too much PPE, Care Home deaths not in the figures?

    As Burke said ' When bad men combine, the good must associate, else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.'
    I don't see anything in either of the main parties to convince me that one party would have handled this better than the other.

    It is more than likely that if the Labour party had been in government for the last ten years that they would have spent more on the NHS but doesn't mean we would have been better prepared for this event.
    There are so many parts of the NHS crying out for money that it would be difficult to allocate funds to prepare for something that may not occur for another 50 or 100 yrs.

    It's all ifs and buts now anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    I don't see anything in either of the main parties to convince me that one party would have handled this better than the other.

    It is more than likely that if the Labour party had been in government for the last ten years that they would have spent more on the NHS but doesn't mean we would have been better prepared for this event.
    There are so many parts of the NHS crying out for money that it would be difficult to allocate funds to prepare for something that may not occur for another 50 or 100 yrs.

    It's all ifs and buts now anyway.
    OK Boris. You don't think that we, the UK, could not have done more in the time that we had, to prepare for what is now happening?
    Your blinkers are not allowing you to see the full picture, we should have been testing, testing and testing, we pulled out of the EU collective for PPE as well as the precurment of ventilators.

    Yes, I do think that Labour would have handled things better, even though the Tories try to rewright history by calling it their NHS, it was Labour who founded it and Labour who would have maintained the PPE stocks. We need to know why, after the 2016 Pandemic exercise, the gaps in our response to any event like this, have still not been published?

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Apparently over the last 5 years the average death rate from normal flu is 17000 the lowest year being 1700 and the highest 28000. If we didn't have lockdown I suppose we would be over the 28000 by now, when this is over we need to lockdown China economically for 5 years until they clean up their act on being a source of "all ills".
    I agree all the western world should stop buying anything from China .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackbit View Post
    OK Boris. You don't think that we, the UK, could not have done more in the time that we had, to prepare for what is now happening?
    Your blinkers are not allowing you to see the full picture, we should have been testing, testing and testing, we pulled out of the EU collective for PPE as well as the precurment of ventilators.

    Yes, I do think that Labour would have handled things better, even though the Tories try to rewright history by calling it their NHS, it was Labour who founded it and Labour who would have maintained the PPE stocks. We need to know why, after the 2016 Pandemic exercise, the gaps in our response to any event like this, have still not been published?
    I'm no Tory but the idea Labour would have done any better is a complete myth. The whole 'Labour is better for the NHS' mantra is unbelievably false. They started the privitisation of the NHS with independent sector centres and opened up the possibility for NHS trusts to outsource care to 'any qualified provider'. I remember my Mum, always a staunch Labour voter going mental about it all the time and voting against them when the coalition government slimed it's way in. They wouldn't have 'fixed' the NHS if they'd been in power for the last 10 years, to say they would is just wrong. For all the ideological genius and righteousness of the NHS, it's a massively inefficient beast that is way behind some other countries.

    Labour wouldn't have stocked up on PPE and ventilators. I've said it a few times, but no one did. Even the USA didn't, Russia had more ventilators per capita than the USA. Labour didn't gear up for a pandemic the last time they were in power and they wouldn't have done so this time. They also wouldn't have done anything any differently as the Government were following expert advice from Imperial College all along. Even the policy stutter wasn't the Government, it was remodelling by the experts. And it's right too, you don't want politicians making decisions above scientists and doctors.

    There have been huge faillings and there's so much to learn from this. As a country we need to view this outbreak as a test run and make sure we're better prepared for the next one. The Government hasn't done brilliantly, neither have the experts. But also neither have the NHS trusts and their failings on PPE (Some trusts had and have plenty, others had massive shortages, why?). And quite critically neither have the people. Anyone who went to Cheltenham or Liverpool v Athletico should have thought better of it. Anyone who went out and broke visitor records at places like Snowdonia, parks and beaches on the weekened before lockdown also need to carry blame. Thousands will have died because of that and those insisting on 'exercising' and panic buying in massive queues in supermarkets. I've got neighbours I didn't know existed until we'd been put in lockdown and now they're wearing the pavement out in the street in their lycra and wobbling about on bikes they not been on in 15 years. So much arrogance and so little common sense about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    I'm no Tory but the idea Labour would have done any better is a complete myth. The whole 'Labour is better for the NHS' mantra is unbelievably false. They started the privitisation of the NHS with independent sector centres and opened up the possibility for NHS trusts to outsource care to 'any qualified provider'. I remember my Mum, always a staunch Labour voter going mental about it all the time and voting against them when the coalition government slimed it's way in. They wouldn't have 'fixed' the NHS if they'd been in power for the last 10 years, to say they would is just wrong. For all the ideological genius and righteousness of the NHS, it's a massively inefficient beast that is way behind some other countries.

    Labour wouldn't have stocked up on PPE and ventilators. I've said it a few times, but no one did. Even the USA didn't, Russia had more ventilators per capita than the USA. Labour didn't gear up for a pandemic the last time they were in power and they wouldn't have done so this time. They also wouldn't have done anything any differently as the Government were following expert advice from Imperial College all along. Even the policy stutter wasn't the Government, it was remodelling by the experts. And it's right too, you don't want politicians making decisions above scientists and doctors.

    There have been huge faillings and there's so much to learn from this. As a country we need to view this outbreak as a test run and make sure we're better prepared for the next one. The Government hasn't done brilliantly, neither have the experts. But also neither have the NHS trusts and their failings on PPE (Some trusts had and have plenty, others had massive shortages, why?). And quite critically neither have the people. Anyone who went to Cheltenham or Liverpool v Athletico should have thought better of it. Anyone who went out and broke visitor records at places like Snowdonia, parks and beaches on the weekened before lockdown also need to carry blame. Thousands will have died because of that and those insisting on 'exercising' and panic buying in massive queues in supermarkets. I've got neighbours I didn't know existed until we'd been put in lockdown and now they're wearing the pavement out in the street in their lycra and wobbling about on bikes they not been on in 15 years. So much arrogance and so little common sense about.
    There is not one country on earth who could have fully prepared for this, nursing staff quite rightly are complaining about lack of protective equipment but the government are in some respects being used as scapegoats, it was the duty of each area NHS
    to have the necessary number of supplies, they put the orders in to central government who procure the items, hence well run authorities have had no issue and are in fact sending their supplies onto to authorities in short supply. Like many on this forum I have a number of friends who are in the nursing profession, if they all have on thing in common, apart from their obvious sense of compassion and duty to the sick, it is their distrust, even contempt of some of the senior and very highly paid administrative managers of some hospitals who bask in the glory of their nursing colleagues, but who have been found wanting when called up to the plate. If there is a poiltical point to be made in all of this its simple, never trust the chinese again, they simply lied about the scale of the matter until it got out of hand

    ,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    I'm no Tory but the idea Labour would have done any better is a complete myth. The whole 'Labour is better for the NHS' mantra is unbelievably false. They started the privitisation of the NHS with independent sector centres and opened up the possibility for NHS trusts to outsource care to 'any qualified provider'. I remember my Mum, always a staunch Labour voter going mental about it all the time and voting against them when the coalition government slimed it's way in. They wouldn't have 'fixed' the NHS if they'd been in power for the last 10 years, to say they would is just wrong. For all the ideological genius and righteousness of the NHS, it's a massively inefficient beast that is way behind some other countries.

    Labour wouldn't have stocked up on PPE and ventilators. I've said it a few times, but no one did. Even the USA didn't, Russia had more ventilators per capita than the USA. Labour didn't gear up for a pandemic the last time they were in power and they wouldn't have done so this time. They also wouldn't have done anything any differently as the Government were following expert advice from Imperial College all along. Even the policy stutter wasn't the Government, it was remodelling by the experts. And it's right too, you don't want politicians making decisions above scientists and doctors.

    There have been huge faillings and there's so much to learn from this. As a country we need to view this outbreak as a test run and make sure we're better prepared for the next one. The Government hasn't done brilliantly, neither have the experts. But also neither have the NHS trusts and their failings on PPE (Some trusts had and have plenty, others had massive shortages, why?). And quite critically neither have the people. Anyone who went to Cheltenham or Liverpool v Athletico should have thought better of it. Anyone who went out and broke visitor records at places like Snowdonia, parks and beaches on the weekened before lockdown also need to carry blame. Thousands will have died because of that and those insisting on 'exercising' and panic buying in massive queues in supermarkets. I've got neighbours I didn't know existed until we'd been put in lockdown and now they're wearing the pavement out in the street in their lycra and wobbling about on bikes they not been on in 15 years. So much arrogance and so little common sense about.
    The ‘Labour’ government you refer to also started to charge people for higher education, let’s face it Tony Blair was a Tory in a red tie, almost all his major project Ps were put on PPI rather than using cheaper government borrowing. He had the chance to regulate the city but had a hands off approach. Considering his majorities he could have reformed this county instead he gave us more of the same.

    Yes Corbyn was not the answer, but with this pandemic maybe the Tories have realised that a well resourced public health care system is an economic necessary rather than an excessive tax burden. If they do then where will that leave Labour?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    The ‘Labour’ government you refer to also started to charge people for higher education, let’s face it Tony Blair was a Tory in a red tie, almost all his major project Ps were put on PPI rather than using cheaper government borrowing. He had the chance to regulate the city but had a hands off approach. Considering his majorities he could have reformed this county instead he gave us more of the same.

    Yes Corbyn was not the answer, but with this pandemic maybe the Tories have realised that a well resourced public health care system is an economic necessary rather than an excessive tax burden. If they do then where will that leave Labour?
    To be fair at the moment Keir Starmer isn't trying to make political capital out of the emergency though I've do doubt he will eventually as opposed to Ashworth who is just a buffoon, the NHS should never be used as a political football, when all said and done the Tories just need to say Mid Staffs when literally hundreds of patients died uneccessarily, patients had to resort to drinking the water out of flower vases. That all happened under a Labour Government and a Labour controlled area Health Authority, mismanagement occurs in all walks of life, under any government it's when lives are at stage that the situation becomes such an important issue

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I think it was a few years ago they said something similar that the SARS outbreak came from the virus testing on animals, one of the lab test leaders was selling off the animals to the markets.

    When this is all over I should imagine there will be questions on why 1.6 million people from the west capitalists countries have been infected with the virus whilst China is less than 100k. Also China will recover quickly with their economy whilst the wests economies will be in tatters for a couple of years.
    A long watch, about 55 mins, and a right wing anti communist view of the virus. But evidence from lots of credible sources that the virus was developed in a Chinese lab. It even names the doctor that released it. Interesting as well how many groups have filed law suits against China as being responsible for the virus.

    https://m.facebook.com/WayneDupreeSh...5333511002518/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    The ‘Labour’ government you refer to also started to charge people for higher education, let’s face it Tony Blair was a Tory in a red tie, almost all his major project Ps were put on PPI rather than using cheaper government borrowing. He had the chance to regulate the city but had a hands off approach. Considering his majorities he could have reformed this county instead he gave us more of the same.

    Yes Corbyn was not the answer, but with this pandemic maybe the Tories have realised that a well resourced public health care system is an economic necessary rather than an excessive tax burden. If they do then where will that leave Labour?
    Was it not Tony Blair who set up the project management of the NHS and all the privatisation of supply services in materials and staff which soaked up all the funding. This pandemic has blown a big hole in everything NHS, I think questions have been made by the social media on the government daily updates which suggest they are looking at the Germany and S Korea models but they can't approach it half hock because these pandemics could come around every few years if its not monitor sourced globally.

    I still think China will need to come onboard with health regulation , if they don't then exile them economically, at the moment they seem to have the big advantage of recovery which will create suspicious minds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    I heard similar myself. As said previously I have a mate that lives in China and he's told me all kinds of stories over the years. It's probably not the time now but I've been thinking about it all week and something doesn't add up in all of this. Not just that but why do the Chinese feel the need to eat all kinds of potentially dangerous and disgusting things? It's not like there's a famine.
    I’ve only just read this. The Chinese seem to eat pangolins and similar animals because traditional Chinese “Medicine” people tell them to. The same people that encourage the killing of rhinos, tigers and other endangered species so that they can con the ignorant. I don’t understand why an atheistic state that can clamp down so hard on religion allows these practices to continue but I suspect that high ranking party officials are the only people who can afford powdered rhino horn and the like.

    What really annoys me though is the proliferation of Chinese medicine in Europe.

    P.S. I’d have a bit more sympathy if these animals were killed and eaten because of hunger but I suspect they’re sold for big money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    I’ve only just read this. The Chinese seem to eat pangolins and similar animals because traditional Chinese “Medicine” people tell them to. The same people that encourage the killing of rhinos, tigers and other endangered species so that they can con the ignorant. I don’t understand why an atheistic state that can clamp down so hard on religion allows these practices to continue but I suspect that high ranking party officials are the only people who can afford powdered rhino horn and the like.

    What really annoys me though is the proliferation of Chinese medicine in Europe.

    P.S. I’d have a bit more sympathy if these animals were killed and eaten because of hunger but I suspect they’re sold for big money.
    While I am totally against anyone killing tigers rhinos etc. A video I posted an hour ago says that this virus definitely did not come from animals. The Chinese say that it came from Bats at the Wuhan market, according to the video there are no bats for sale in the market and no colonies of bats close to the market. I know it is quite easy to pick out facts from a number of sources that suit your argument, while ignoring others, but the fact that this virus was manufactured and possibly released intentionally cannot be completely dismissed.

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    Excellent diversion tactics from the Tory supporters on here ha ha. Let’s direct the conversation to Blair, the not sure any government could have done any better argument (many around the world have such as Ireland). The tories have stuffed up from the start with their herd immunity approach and have continued to do so. Let’s concentrate on the here and now and not “I’m not sure how labour would have done things differently” as that’s neither here or there at the moment.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...break-11972812

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    Quote Originally Posted by stobartmassive View Post
    Excellent diversion tactics from the Tory supporters on here ha ha. Let’s direct the conversation to Blair, the not sure any government could have done any better argument (many around the world have such as Ireland). The tories have stuffed up from the start with their herd immunity approach and have continued to do so. Let’s concentrate on the here and now and not “I’m not sure how labour would have done things differently” as that’s neither here or there at the moment.

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...break-11972812
    Not wishing to take any particular political side in this, but wouldn't Labour, had they been in power, be taking advice from the same medical experts here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    Not wishing to take any particular political side in this, but wouldn't Labour, had they been in power, be taking advice from the same medical experts here?
    Again, it’s not about labour, Lib Dem’s or whoever. The tories have messed up, simple as that and that should be the point of discussion. Macron in France, who’s government has made far less mistakes, has apologised to his nation for their failings and we can’t get Priti “useless” Patel or any other minister to apologise for failing to deliver the PPE they promised 3 or 4 weeks ago

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