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Thread: Cup Draw in New York

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    Default Cup Draw in New York

    Attendances are down, Thursday night television viewing is embarrassing for the game with matches being played in front of rows of empty seats, and the Rugby League decide to go to New York for the next Challenge Cup Draw with all the costs entailed, is it just me who thinks it's a waste of money, how about trying to regrow the game in the heartlands first or even have the draw at Wembley itself

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woolyback View Post
    Attendances are down, Thursday night television viewing is embarrassing for the game with matches being played in front of rows of empty seats, and the Rugby League decide to go to New York for the next Challenge Cup Draw with all the costs entailed, is it just me who thinks it's a waste of money, how about trying to regrow the game in the heartlands first or even have the draw at Wembley itself
    There seems no logic to it other than an expensive gimmick. If you were to agree with the gimmick aspect they could do it in Toronto where there’s now at least a link, but why?

    They would be better going to a clubhouse on a match day where there’s a crowd of sorts and doing it there but obviously this isn’t glamorous enough for the powers that be.


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    Those who feel the Toronto's/Ottawa's/New York's of this world have no point need to have a think. Rugby League is dying at all levels, if things carry on as they are there won't be professional RL in this country in ten years, possibly five. Toronto are in Super League simply because they've put the money forward for it. Ottawa will end up in Super League because they'll put the money in to get there. Clubs with 120 year histories in this country are on the verge of bankruptcy. Getting a Super League competition with Toronto/Ottawa/Toulouse and New York in five years would mean a far bigger TV deal (Or multiple deals) than we have now. It'll enable access to sponsorship and funding way in excess of what the M62 corridor can attract on it's own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    Those who feel the Toronto's/Ottawa's/New York's of this world have no point need to have a think. Rugby League is dying at all levels, if things carry on as they are there won't be professional RL in this country in ten years, possibly five. Toronto are in Super League simply because they've put the money forward for it. Ottawa will end up in Super League because they'll put the money in to get there. Clubs with 120 year histories in this country are on the verge of bankruptcy. Getting a Super League competition with Toronto/Ottawa/Toulouse and New York in five years would mean a far bigger TV deal (Or multiple deals) than we have now. It'll enable access to sponsorship and funding way in excess of what the M62 corridor can attract on it's own.
    The likes of Toronto/Ottawa/New York/Barcelona would just accelerate the decline of RL UK. It won't be long before Toronto realise to compete they would need a higher salary cap to buy all our best players and I should imagine Ottawa/New York/Barcelona would follow suit. Most probably the likes of Wigan, Saints, Hull and Warrington would lose some quality players and become similar to the likes of Salford, Hull KR and Wakefield today.

    There would be a big problem with scheduling and would SKY be really happy expecting UK viewers to view live games at 1-00 in the early hours of the morning broadcasting from the West or 23-00 late at night broadcasting from the East.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    The likes of Toronto/Ottawa/New York/Barcelona would just accelerate the decline of RL UK. It won't be long before Toronto realise to compete they would need a higher salary cap to buy all our best players and I should imagine Ottawa/New York/Barcelona would follow suit. Most probably the likes of Wigan, Saints, Hull and Warrington would lose some quality players and become similar to the likes of Salford, Hull KR and Wakefield today.

    There would be a big problem with scheduling and would SKY be really happy expecting UK viewers to view live games at 1-00 in the early hours of the morning broadcasting from the West or 23-00 late at night broadcasting from the East.
    Some sense finally.

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    With the level of competency involved in RL governance are we sure it's not being held in New Street, York and it all got a bit confused on the original planning?

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    Sounds to me like a few of the RFL big wigs have got together and thought "lets have a jolly in New York and we'll pass it off as expansion". I'd be absolutely fuming if I was a club chairman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    The likes of Toronto/Ottawa/New York/Barcelona would just accelerate the decline of RL UK. It won't be long before Toronto realise to compete they would need a higher salary cap to buy all our best players and I should imagine Ottawa/New York/Barcelona would follow suit. Most probably the likes of Wigan, Saints, Hull and Warrington would lose some quality players and become similar to the likes of Salford, Hull KR and Wakefield today.
    Those are only problems for the existing clubs, who have all failed miserably to grow the sport over the last 50 years. Would you not like to see the sport being a global game, with big crowds watching major cities play the game? I would, even if it meant Saints, Wigan and Warrington were minor clubs. There is of course a big chance that Toronto and Ottawa will be short lived and will disappear into financial ruination before long. But it's good that someone cares enough about the sport to try it. Super League's existing clubs are doing nothing and are likely to fall further behind other sports and sink back into semi-pro status after the next TV deal runs it's course if the current decline continues.

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    Absolutely disgusting waste of money. It's nothing more than an all-expenses-paid jolly for the boys. You can imagine the conversation, "Where do you fancy next year boys?". "I've heard that the Maldives are interested in joining Super League...
    I bought a pack of luminous condoms last week. The wife's face lit up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woolyback View Post
    Attendances are down, Thursday night television viewing is embarrassing for the game with matches being played in front of rows of empty seats, and the Rugby League decide to go to New York for the next Challenge Cup Draw with all the costs entailed, is it just me who thinks it's a waste of money, how about trying to regrow the game in the heartlands first or even have the draw at Wembley itself
    Its really sad the direction we are heading. Im very quickly losing enthusiasm for our game . I can only put it down to the The new wave of potential teams and the direction our game is heading.

    The CC last year was heartbreaking . It was my first visit since 1998 . I went all the CC finals from the early 80Â’s-99 . Experienced Wembley with 90- 98.000 spectators most yrs to a half empty ,no atmosphere final was heartbreaking . Our game is been driven in the wrong direction. And so it continues .....

    Watching Toronto is embarrassing . The standard, no atmosphere, increasing empty seats.

    The thought of another team maybe 2 in our league . 7 hrs flight away is pathetic . How can anyone think this is ok.

    Yes, support a American/ Canadian league ! fantastic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    Those are only problems for the existing clubs, who have all failed miserably to grow the sport over the last 50 years. Would you not like to see the sport being a global game, with big crowds watching major cities play the game? I would, even if it meant Saints, Wigan and Warrington were minor clubs. There is of course a big chance that Toronto and Ottawa will be short lived and will disappear into financial ruination before long. But it's good that someone cares enough about the sport to try it. Super League's existing clubs are doing nothing and are likely to fall further behind other sports and sink back into semi-pro status after the next TV deal runs it's course if the current decline continues.
    I would want Saints, Wigan and Warrington to be some of the best rugby league clubs in the world, wouldn't accept anything less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side Of The Moon View Post
    Its really sad the direction we are heading. Im very quickly losing enthusiasm for our game . I can only put it down to the The new wave of potential teams and the direction our game is heading.

    The CC last year was heartbreaking . It was my first visit since 1998 . I went all the CC finals from the early 80Â’s-99 . Experienced Wembley with 90- 98.000 spectators most yrs to a half empty ,no atmosphere final was heartbreaking . Our game is been driven in the wrong direction. And so it continues .....

    Watching Toronto is embarrassing . The standard, no atmosphere, increasing empty seats.

    The thought of another team maybe 2 in our league . 7 hrs flight away is pathetic . How can anyone think this is ok.

    Yes, support a American/ Canadian league ! fantastic
    Amen to that pal. It's like listening to my own thoughts.

    Just forked out 92 quid for 4 adult tickets for the next 2 aways and I really wonder why I'm bothering.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    Those are only problems for the existing clubs, who have all failed miserably to grow the sport over the last 50 years. Would you not like to see the sport being a global game, with big crowds watching major cities play the game? I would, even if it meant Saints, Wigan and Warrington were minor clubs. There is of course a big chance that Toronto and Ottawa will be short lived and will disappear into financial ruination before long. But it's good that someone cares enough about the sport to try it. Super League's existing clubs are doing nothing and are likely to fall further behind other sports and sink back into semi-pro status after the next TV deal runs it's course if the current decline continues.
    I would love to agree with you, but do you honestly believe that Rugby League could be a global brand particularly in the United States where even football (soccer) is a comparatively minor sport, the vast amounts of money being made by American sportsman in their own sports would never tempt them to try League, the few Union players who are of a reasonable class come to Europe to earn a living. I can understand us trying to grow the game again in France with Toulouse etc, I am old enough to remember when France was a reasonably competitive country to play against. Big ideas are wonderful but realism must take precedent, if there was a global market wouldn't the far richer Australian League have tipped their toes in first with their far superior television coverage The first year for Toronto is bound to be attractive for the really keen away supporters but I'm not sure that they will go again for the second year onwards. There is also the Sky coverage, there is no way that they would cover games without advertising revenue which they are not going to get in a new market.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Amen to that pal. It's like listening to my own thoughts.

    Just forked out 92 quid for 4 adult tickets for the next 2 aways and I really wonder why I'm bothering.
    Ralph, I suspect you're bothering because of your love for the sport in general and for Saints in particular - like most people on this forum. Long may it continue.

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    There are two possible outcomes to the North American expansion.

    1. They success and one day in the future we will have a third full time professional Rugby League competition. The sport will be open to new markets and new player talent pools.

    2. They do not succeed, a few people outside the sport lose some money that they probably won't notice is gone. We return back to how we were.

    Either way we are in no worse position than before we started. I don't see why there is a reason to be negative.
    I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Cleal View Post
    There are two possible outcomes to the North American expansion.

    1. They success and one day in the future we will have a third full time professional Rugby League competition. The sport will be open to new markets and new player talent pools.

    2. They do not succeed, a few people outside the sport lose some money that they probably won't notice is gone. We return back to how we were.

    Either way we are in no worse position than before we started. I don't see why there is a reason to be negative.
    It's been said already. A third possible outcome is that teams in big world cities, but still part of the 'UK' domestic league, push the likes of Saints down the ladder.
    I don't actually think that this will happen BTW,

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    I reckon Uncle Mo made a good plan on creating super clubs with the likes of Warrington/Widnes, Castleford/Wakefield, Bradford/Keighley, Hull/Hull KR, Salford/Swinton, Huddersfield/Halifax etc who knows Warrington/Widnes could have been Superleague Champions in the first decade of this century, the only problem was the tribal differences to come up with a name and ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Amen to that pal. It's like listening to my own thoughts.

    Just forked out 92 quid for 4 adult tickets for the next 2 aways and I really wonder why I'm bothering.
    Sounds like a bargain to me.

    Top level football is pretty much double that at the moment.

    https://www.liverpoolfc.com/tickets/...-league-prices

    If you want to see a top band it will cost you 3x that at least. I looking into buying Genesis tickets and it costs £70 to sit at the back. Most tickets are hundreds.

    https://www.ticketmaster.co.uk/genes...005863942817AD

    If you want to go watch England play Cricket at you are looking from similar prices to up too £100.

    These are prices are for the north of England too. Two tickets for Lords can set you back the price of a Saints Season Ticket and they have to have a ballot for tickets.

    Can you really blame our sport for trying to find new fans that want to pay to watch the sport.
    I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.

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    Suppose they will all be going on the jaunt. They certainly look after themselves. Is anybody interested in New York.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Bad Les View Post
    Ralph, I suspect you're bothering because of your love for the sport in general and for Saints in particular - like most people on this forum. Long may it continue.
    True

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Cleal View Post
    Sounds like a bargain to me.

    Top level football is pretty much double that at the moment.

    https://www.liverpoolfc.com/tickets/...-league-prices

    If you want to see a top band it will cost you 3x that at least. I looking into buying Genesis tickets and it costs £70 to sit at the back. Most tickets are hundreds.

    https://www.ticketmaster.co.uk/genes...005863942817AD

    If you want to go watch England play Cricket at you are looking from similar prices to up too £100.

    These are prices are for the north of England too. Two tickets for Lords can set you back the price of a Saints Season Ticket and they have to have a ballot for tickets.

    Can you really blame our sport for trying to find new fans that want to pay to watch the sport.
    Yeah you're right. United used to cost me a lot more.

    I'm just at a loss to where the sport is going. I really hope that we have a compelling ashes series. Half full grounds for that really will cause alarm

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I would want Saints, Wigan and Warrington to be some of the best rugby league clubs in the world, wouldn't accept anything less.
    It's up to them to do that then. If Toronto, Ottawa and New York are successful (Unlikely but lets assume it's a big success) then the cap will have to go up. If that means clubs being left behind, that's their fault. It's farcical how low it is. Years ago it was on par if not higher than Union and the NRL. Now Union is around £7m with two exemptions, the NRL is around £5.2m. We're effectively at £1.9m with two exemptions. With rumours of private equity deals in both Union and the NRL, it's likely both will be spending at least £5m per team per season more than Super League. And the worst thing is that a lot of Super League sides don't even spend up to the current cap limit as they cannot afford to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    It's been said already. A third possible outcome is that teams in big world cities, but still part of the 'UK' domestic league, push the likes of Saints down the ladder.
    I don't actually think that this will happen BTW,
    Not in our life times I don't think.

    There is a lot of money in being a minority sport in North America, but it will take a long time for anything to get established.
    I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    Those are only problems for the existing clubs, who have all failed miserably to grow the sport over the last 50 years.

    It's a complex issue. Part of me thinks this is spot on, and gets narked when clubs who are struggling to attract 4-figure gates are whining about the RFL not doing enough for them and seem to permanently want a leg-up, but don't do much to attract fans & money to the sport.

    But then, RL has a severe image problem in this country. Again, there's no simple reason for this - nor solution. We have undoubtedly suffered from media apartheid, especially compared to the posh blokes' version of rugby. We also suffer in comparison to football, which has grown beyond all forecasts from its position in, say, 1990. And we've had a succession of useless pricks in charge of the RFL.

    At present, we have us, the piescum, Dire, Leeds and Hull whose crowds are enough to sustain a decent operation. Cas and Cats are a little behind but possible, and Toronto's position is still unclear. The rest are semi-pro clubs being just about boosted into viability by the Sky contract. We had Bratfud as a 'big hitter' in terms of crowds, but there's a huge question mark over how much income was generated there with all the promos & freebies.

    Below SL and the situation is woeful.

    We need more media focus, better PR, and to keep the Sky contract.

    If embracing the North America experiment gives us a bit of a boost, then I'm all for it (although the Toronto venture looks like backfiring at the moment)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Yeah you're right. United used to cost me a lot more.

    I'm just at a loss to where the sport is going. I really hope that we have a compelling ashes series. Half full grounds for that really will cause alarm
    The only international ground that struggles for crowds is Cardiff. The Welsh tourist board chucks money at it for some reason and the result is empty seats.

    You do wonder how in control the administrators of our sport are. We can't do a lot about it so we may as well enjoy the ride.

    On the subject of Cricket the Allen Stanford West Indian Cricket was one of the most exciting things to happen to cricket in a long time. It all ended in a mess but it was a fun journey none the less.
    I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.

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