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Thread: Your Take KRISTIAN WOOLF after 5 games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    There's preciously little evidence to suggest that.
    Did you see saints v roosters?

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    Salford, Toronto

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    I’m not quite sure why we’re all questioning the style of play? I’ve watched every game this season and we’re playing more or less the same style as last season. The biggest problem has been injury’s and poor execution. We’ve put the same moves on as last season but without Coote playing the move tends to die when Welsby gets the ball. I’m not having a dig at Welsby either but he’s young and doesn’t read the game like Coote does.

    Defensively I think we look better and apart from the Warrington game we’ve controlled the ruck area and stifled the opposition. We look strong in contact.

    I’m certain we’ll get better with ball in hand once we have Coote back in the side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by parky151277 View Post
    I’m not quite sure why we’re all questioning the style of play? I’ve watched every game this season and we’re playing more or less the same style as last season. The biggest problem has been injury’s and poor execution. We’ve put the same moves on as last season but without Coote playing the move tends to die when Welsby gets the ball. I’m not having a dig at Welsby either but he’s young and doesn’t read the game like Coote does.

    Defensively I think we look better and apart from the Warrington game we’ve controlled the ruck area and stifled the opposition. We look strong in contact.

    I’m certain we’ll get better with ball in hand once we have Coote back in the side.
    Agreed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side Of The Moon View Post
    Did you see saints v roosters?
    Yes, hence why I didn't say NO evidence, and Yes, I seen the Salford and Toronto games against average at best and absolutely shite opposition.

    We have stuttered and been very clunky in attack, that's not up for debate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    Yes, hence why I didn't say NO evidence, and Yes, I seen the Salford and Toronto games against average at best and absolutely shite opposition.

    We have stuttered and been very clunky in attack, that's not up for debate.
    3 games from 6 is 50% evidence based . That does not equate to ‘ little evidence’ . It has been the same for all teams . Conditions, early injuries has made for a challenging start. However . We have shown signs that we are still the best in the league irrespective of opposition . In the games we have won we have performed. Against the roosters we shown we are a world class team . That is also not up for debate .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side Of The Moon View Post
    3 games from 6 is 50% evidence based . That does not equate to ‘ little evidence’ . It has been the same for all teams . Conditions, early injuries has made for a challenging start. However . We have shown signs that we are still the best in the league irrespective of opposition . In the games we have won we have performed. Against the roosters we shown we are a world class team . That is also not up for debate .
    Are you being deliberately pedantic or are you just stupid? I said little evidence that Woolf has the same attacking mentality as Holbrook , which he clearly doesn't on evidence of the 6 games played, this may change but I'm yet to see much that suggests it will. I have not mentioned anything about us being world class or anything else you clown.

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    Still very early days and i think we will hit top gear sooner rather than later

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    Quote Originally Posted by parky151277 View Post
    I’m not quite sure why we’re all questioning the style of play? I’ve watched every game this season and we’re playing more or less the same style as last season. The biggest problem has been injury’s and poor execution. We’ve put the same moves on as last season but without Coote playing the move tends to die when Welsby gets the ball. I’m not having a dig at Welsby either but he’s young and doesn’t read the game like Coote does.

    Defensively I think we look better and apart from the Warrington game we’ve controlled the ruck area and stifled the opposition. We look strong in contact.

    I’m certain we’ll get better with ball in hand once we have Coote back in the side.
    In my opinion I don't think we are anywhere near the same style of play of last season, our switch plays and second phase is far too slow and readable and we end up far too lateral. Don't think Grace has had a sniff of any creative space so far this season, Lomax and Fages don't seem to be switched on together mostly because Coote is not there to provide that extra threat. Walmsley and Thompson usually have a set play with one acting as a decoy and then send the inside ball to LMS or Knowles on the opposite angle we've only seen that once so far mainly because Knowles has not been available.

    We are not playing at speed when we make tackle busts, last night the Giants missed 50 tackles to the Saints 11 that tells me we are not clinical enough to take the advantage, is this because we are defence orientated and forgot how to attack with the style of last season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    k
    In my opinion I don't think we are anywhere near the same style of play of last season, our switch plays and second phase is far too slow and readable and we end up far too lateral. Don't think Grace has had a sniff of any creative space so far this season, Lomax and Fages don't seem to be switched on together mostly because Coote is not there to provide that extra threat. Walmsley and Thompson usually have a set play with one acting as a decoy and then send the inside ball to LMS or Knowles on the opposite angle we've only seen that once so far mainly because Knowles has not been available.

    We are not playing at speed when we make tackle busts, last night the Giants missed 50 tackles to the Saints 11 that tells me we are not clinical enough to take the advantage, is this because we are defence orientated and forgot how to attack with the style of last season.

    Good points well made.
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    5 games ....ffs relax
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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    In my opinion I don't think we are anywhere near the same style of play of last season, our switch plays and second phase is far too slow and readable and we end up far too lateral. Don't think Grace has had a sniff of any creative space so far this season, Lomax and Fages don't seem to be switched on together mostly because Coote is not there to provide that extra threat. Walmsley and Thompson usually have a set play with one acting as a decoy and then send the inside ball to LMS or Knowles on the opposite angle we've only seen that once so far mainly because Knowles has not been available.

    We are not playing at speed when we make tackle busts, last night the Giants missed 50 tackles to the Saints 11 that tells me we are not clinical enough to take the advantage, is this because we are defence orientated and forgot how to attack with the style of last season.
    Agree it’s been nothing like last season, our wingers having zero tries and barely touching the ball near the opposition line backs that up. The only question is whether that’s down to Welsby being at full back instead of Coote or because Woolf is a defence minded coach. Early days of course but the dip from last season is greater than it should be and I am a bit concerned. 4 tryless halves in 6 competitive games is pretty poor as well. That said, I think Woolf deserves the next 5 league games (with Coote in the team) before making any real judgements on him. Tough run we have as well, Cas and Leeds away before KR and Wigan at home then Catalan away. I think Woolf needs at least 4 wins out of those.

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    It was always going to be difficult to back up last season's performances and consistency - for the players and the coach - even if Holbrook had still been here. Early signs from Woolf as coach could be evidence of a more focus on defensive - or that attacking is taking longer to click into place, especially given the players who have been missing / injured in this early part of the season.

    Defence tends to be more about attitude, hard work organisation - whereas attack tends to be more about creativity, vision and skill. The latter taking more time to shine - especially if a new style or approach is being learned.

    I'm willing to give Woolf a full season before making judgement. Holbrook turned out to be a great fit for Saints - and I really enjoyed his tenure and style of play - but if he had not won the Grand Final, i think people's opinion of him would have been very different. I have a feeling that Saints style under Woolf will be different and take time to develop - but that he's a good coach with a determination to win. If he can achieve close to what he has done with Tonga - there are good things still to come, but patience may be required. After all it's only 5 games into a long season

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    Quote Originally Posted by parky151277 View Post
    I’m not quite sure why we’re all questioning the style of play? I’ve watched every game this season and we’re playing more or less the same style as last season. The biggest problem has been injury’s and poor execution. We’ve put the same moves on as last season but without Coote playing the move tends to die when Welsby gets the ball. I’m not having a dig at Welsby either but he’s young and doesn’t read the game like Coote does.

    Defensively I think we look better and apart from the Warrington game we’ve controlled the ruck area and stifled the opposition. We look strong in contact.

    I’m certain we’ll get better with ball in hand once we have Coote back in the side.
    Spot on. I don’t think Woolf has made any major changes tactically with our attack. We have just been missing key components of the attack and therefore the execution hasn’t been right.

    I keep reading people saying we’ve gone back to 5 drives and a kick which is complete and utter nonsense.
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    Too many easy games last year! Its unusual to have a year when all the major competitors were cr*p but last year they were. We'll find out how good the team is this year,it will be a good season if they win a trophy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by St. Christopher View Post
    It was always going to be difficult to back up last season's performances and consistency - for the players and the coach - even if Holbrook had still been here. Early signs from Woolf as coach could be evidence of a more focus on defensive - or that attacking is taking longer to click into place, especially given the players who have been missing / injured in this early part of the season.

    Defence tends to be more about attitude, hard work organisation - whereas attack tends to be more about creativity, vision and skill. The latter taking more time to shine - especially if a new style or approach is being learned.

    I'm willing to give Woolf a full season before making judgement. Holbrook turned out to be a great fit for Saints - and I really enjoyed his tenure and style of play - but if he had not won the Grand Final, i think people's opinion of him would have been very different. I have a feeling that Saints style under Woolf will be different and take time to develop - but that he's a good coach with a determination to win. If he can achieve close to what he has done with Tonga - there are good things still to come, but patience may be required. After all it's only 5 games into a long season
    Fair comments, I think we have to consider many factors which come into play, new coaching set up, injuries, WCC disruption but the most important factor is that players must remove the possible aurora that they are good because they are Superleague Champions and the "hunger" is not quite there yet.

    Yellow Giraffe mentions below 5 drives and a kick, from my perspective we are seeing more of that from all of our backline especially Grace, Makinson and Naiqama and to a certain extent Lomax as well. Last season we had a balanced attack switching from left to right (vice Versa) with pretty good speed to catch the opposition on the wrong footings, this season its been a rare occurrence so far. I would also say we are lacking in support play compared to last year.

    We are one of the worse teams in super league for average gain at the moment despite having a lot of possession that's telling me we are doing a lot of one man rugby with as mentioned limited support play, is this one of the reasons we score points in one half then almost zero points in the next half. From were I sit in the North Stand there are a lot of fans and I shouting out the same thing "Pass the Ball".

    Hopefully we will be back on point by Easter but if we are attacking in the same predictable manner then we are going to struggle to be a top 2 side, I think the comp is a bit more competitive this season so far.

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    It was five drives and a kick, lost count of how many times Fages kicked on Friday.

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    No too worried about losing the game, Huddersfield seem a decent side.
    In the first half I got the impression that we were playing slightly different from the play the ball. We weren't using Thompson and Walmsley as well as we usually do.
    It was just an impression and maybe the match stats will prove me wrong or maybe it was just good defence from Huddersfield, but we do rely a lot on those two to get us a roll on

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    Spot on. I don’t think Woolf has made any major changes tactically with our attack. We have just been missing key components of the attack and therefore the execution hasn’t been right.

    I keep reading people saying we’ve gone back to 5 drives and a kick which is complete and utter nonsense.
    Agreed. We’re just getting it wrong.

    Fages was a revelation last year but has always had his limitations when a lot of decision making responsibility is placed on him. And neither he nor Lomax has a kicking game. So Coote being there is so important, and him not being there is exposing shortcomings elsewhere.

    In that sense Woolf has been unlucky, but given the problems with fluidity in attack it was definitely a mistake to put our best ball-handling loose forward out at centre and put a battering ram at 13.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Houghwood Saint View Post
    Bit of both! A new coach with new ideas plus too many easy games last year! Its unusual to have a year when all the major competitors were cr*p but last year they were. We'll find out how good the team is this year,it will be a good season if they win a trophy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    Agreed. We’re just getting it wrong.

    Fages was a revelation last year but has always had his limitations when a lot of decision making responsibility is placed on him. And neither he nor Lomax has a kicking game. So Coote being there is so important, and him not being there is exposing shortcomings elsewhere.

    In that sense Woolf has been unlucky, but given the problems with fluidity in attack it was definitely a mistake to put our best ball-handling loose forward out at centre and put a battering ram at 13.


    I think Woolfe knows that was a mistake. In his interview he said Knowles did nothing wrong at centre but was missed in the middle. Hopefully he learns from his mistake and doesn't repeat it.

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    Everyone expected Saints to hammer Huddersfield because Wigan had done so the previous week. Maybe if Sezer, the catalyst for everything the Giants do, had been sin-binned then Saints may have scored 4 tries in his absence - just like Wigan did! He controlled their game on Friday and the pass to Wardle for the last try was sublime. The Giants stuck to their game plan, slow the PTB down and play the offside game. Hewer let them do it so it worked. Saints were frustrated in attack and the necessary composure was missing, they could and should have scored on at least three other occasions.
    Put Coote and Percy in the back five and that makes a big difference. KW has made some strange decisions and Knowles at centre was the most baffling, but I’m prepared to give him time. Two real

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    Just play Simm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon Sexton View Post
    Just play Simm.
    I’ve just watched an interview with Woolf on Facebook and he specifically mentions Simm at the end. Could be a hint:

    https://www.facebook.com/32425564047...3363998145475/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    I’ve just watched an interview with Woolf on Facebook and he specifically mentions Simm at the end. Could be a hint:

    https://www.facebook.com/32425564047...3363998145475/
    Lets hope so, it's wrong that we expect too much of these young lads but they have to make that step at some time. I think Woolf realises he made a mistake last week and will look to put it right this week.

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