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Thread: Wigan V Toronto

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson View Post
    They should be doing much better with that squad as you say. Bringing Mahe Fonua back who was brilliant for them last time around and having the luxury of leaving Albert Kelly out for round 1, whom for mine is one of the most exciting players in the competition.

    As for Wigan, it's looking like a masterstroke in putting Bevan French in at full back. Ball in-hand he's really dangerous and seems to have a pass in him as well. Could get close to Barba's stats from 2018 if carries on at this rate.

    Regards,

    STEVO
    Not even in the same ball park as BB in attack & wait until the tight games and his defence will be exposed for what it is...... Terrible at best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson View Post
    They should be doing much better with that squad as you say. Bringing Mahe Fonua back who was brilliant for them last time around and having the luxury of leaving Albert Kelly out for round 1, whom for mine is one of the most exciting players in the competition.

    As for Wigan, it's looking like a masterstroke in putting Bevan French in at full back. Ball in-hand he's really dangerous and seems to have a pass in him as well. Could get close to Barba's stats from 2018 if carries on at this rate.

    Regards,

    STEVO
    Nobody cares about Barba’s stats from 2018 because he bottled it at the business end of the season when it actually mattered. French will stand out for Wigan this year but only because the rest of the team are so absolutely bang average. Hull for me are like when Everton spent £180m in one transfer window a couple of years ago, their fans get all excited and they look good on paper but no-one is seriously worried about them challenging. Saints will win the league leaders shield comfortably and the only team I see stopping us from winning the lot is Warrington as we know they can beat us on their day.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

  3. #78
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    Running the risk of being called patronising again by annoying Dave, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by undertheradar View Post
    Bevan isn’t on the same planet as prime Ben Barba.
    I think nobody in the sport was on the same planet as Barba in his prime (that was 2012 though). Bevan French at SL level and in 2020, will cause all teams problems with his speed and evasiveness.

    Quote Originally Posted by tilly2006 View Post
    Not even in the same ball park as BB in attack & wait until the tight games and his defence will be exposed for what it is...... Terrible at best.
    You mean the same rhetoric many on here spouted about Barba himself? Full backs these days are picked to play there because of what they can offer in attack. Not the other way around.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    Nobody cares about Barba’s stats from 2018 because he bottled it at the business end of the season when it actually mattered.
    I think you're being really disrespectful to Barba here. If I recall correctly, it was the whole squad that went off the boil. Yet Barba still went on to be named the first Saints player to win MOS for 10 years wasn't he?

    Regards,

    STEVO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson View Post
    Running the risk of being called patronising again by annoying Dave, but...





    I think you're being really disrespectful to Barba here. If I recall correctly, it was the whole squad that went off the boil. Yet Barba still went on to be named the first Saints player to win MOS for 10 years wasn't he?

    Regards,

    STEVO
    The disrespect was justifiable in part, his first 20 games he was probably the best full back we have ever had, his last 10 games he was probably one of the worst full backs we ever had. Leading up to the play offs Barba wasn't interested and it had a big impact on the team for the rest of the season, for me it was a hollow MOS when he lost interest in becoming a team player and his loyalties disappeared.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    The disrespect was justifiable in part, his first 20 games he was probably the best full back we have ever had, his last 10 games he was probably one of the worst full backs we ever had. Leading up to the play offs Barba wasn't interested and it had a big impact on the team for the rest of the season, for me it was a hollow MOS when he lost interest in becoming a team player and his loyalties disappeared.
    I don’t think it’s even lack of respect. It’s a simple matter of fact that Barba’s focus moved to the NRL and that his lack of commitment unbalanced the team. It may have been an error of judgement on Holbrook’s part to have continued playing him but he put things right by bringing Coote in. Superstars are only any good when they have loyalty and focus on their current job and not on future prospects.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    I don’t think it’s even lack of respect. It’s a simple matter of fact that Barba’s focus moved to the NRL and that his lack of commitment unbalanced the team. It may have been an error of judgement on Holbrook’s part to have continued playing him but he put things right by bringing Coote in. Superstars are only any good when they have loyalty and focus on their current job and not on future prospects.
    Spot on mate.

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    speaking of Wigan , I see that they have loaned Greenwood out to Leeds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    I don’t think it’s even lack of respect. It’s a simple matter of fact that Barba’s focus moved to the NRL and that his lack of commitment unbalanced the team. It may have been an error of judgement on Holbrook’s part to have continued playing him but he put things right by bringing Coote in. Superstars are only any good when they have loyalty and focus on their current job and not on future prospects.
    Exactly,he went from playing at 100% to playing at 75% at best once his head had been turned. Some of the atempted tackles he made were frankly an embarasment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint from Bury View Post
    speaking of Wigan , I see that they have loaned Greenwood out to Leeds.
    Replacement for Ferres. Lazy, slow and thinks he's better than he is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint from Bury View Post
    speaking of Wigan , I see that they have loaned Greenwood out to Leeds.
    One thing Cunningham did get right, bringing in Taia and allowing Greenwood to leave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    The disrespect was justifiable in part, his first 20 games he was probably the best full back we have ever had, his last 10 games he was probably one of the worst full backs we ever had. Leading up to the play offs Barba wasn't interested and it had a big impact on the team for the rest of the season, for me it was a hollow MOS when he lost interest in becoming a team player and his loyalties disappeared.
    Dead right. It was Barba that disrespected club and fans, with his couldn't be bothered attitude in the latter part of the season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson View Post
    They should be doing much better with that squad as you say. Bringing Mahe Fonua back who was brilliant for them last time around and having the luxury of leaving Albert Kelly out for round 1, whom for mine is one of the most exciting players in the competition.

    As for Wigan, it's looking like a masterstroke in putting Bevan French in at full back. Ball in-hand he's really dangerous and seems to have a pass in him as well. Could get close to Barba's stats from 2018 if carries on at this rate.

    Regards,

    STEVO
    I actually agree. French is a terrific player.

    They haven't got the forwards though I don't think.

    As unpopular as it may be on here, Warrington are the threat

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    Replacement for Ferres. Lazy, slow and thinks he's better than he is.
    Is thar Ferres or Greenwood. Could be either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    Is thar Ferres or Greenwood. Could be either.
    general view on Greenwood on Wigan forum- talented but heart of a pea.
    Sounds right

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint from Bury View Post
    general view on Greenwood on Wigan forum- talented but heart of a pea.
    Sounds right
    Similar to Andre Savelio. He his rated very highly...... By himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    Similar to Andre Savelio. He his rated very highly...... By himself.
    There has to be something more going on that these players do not fulfill their undoubted talent. The coaches who see them everyday know what is going on, so if a player is a legend in his own lunch hour, then they may decide to get shut if this is disrupting the team.
    A player who plays professionally cannot be accused of having no heart especially if they have played in the NRL, Joe`s issues may be more natural aggression required but not lacking in ticker.
    Scully was average 1997-1999, if social media abuse was as abundant then would his confidence have gone?
    When I first saw Andre in that Leeds match against JP & Co I thought we had a real find in our hands then, the next few games he was very good, then the rumours came out that he did not want to play where selected. With the failed loan moves and NRL shut out is he now fulfilling his potential as he has an injury free run, maturity and hindsight? He seems to be going well at the moment time will tell.

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    Default Wigan V Toronto

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallaght Tiger View Post
    There has to be something more going on that these players do not fulfill their undoubted talent. The coaches who see them everyday know what is going on, so if a player is a legend in his own lunch hour, then they may decide to get shut if this is disrupting the team.
    A player who plays professionally cannot be accused of having no heart especially if they have played in the NRL, Joe`s issues may be more natural aggression required but not lacking in ticker.
    Scully was average 1997-1999, if social media abuse was as abundant then would his confidence have gone?
    When I first saw Andre in that Leeds match against JP & Co I thought we had a real find in our hands then, the next few games he was very good, then the rumours came out that he did not want to play where selected. With the failed loan moves and NRL shut out is he now fulfilling his potential as he has an injury free run, maturity and hindsight? He seems to be going well at the moment time will tell.
    I think by bringing up Scully you’ve got to the bottom of it. I think resilience and desire are qualities every bit as important as speed, size and power. Scully had resilience and desire in skiploads, along with an unbelievable skill set - he would have been a world class player in pretty much any circumstances.

    The trouble with big powerful lads is that they can sail through the age groups without having their desire or resilience tested - especially with the limited talent pool we have here. It’s only when they get into a first team environment that these shortcomings really come to light.

    Ps. If Scully was average from ‘97 to ‘99 I hope we’ve got some average young forwards ready to break through now.

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    Jack Wells and Ben Kilner have both gone on a months loan deal to Toronto. They've both missed most of the last two seasons with injuries but have shown up well in the reserves this year so far. It'll be interesting to see how they go v Saints on Saturday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    Ps. If Scully was average from ‘97 to ‘99 I hope we’ve got some average young forwards ready to break through now.



    Agreed. He was hardly 'average'. As a team, we struggled in the last 18 months of McRae's time in charge, but he was good under Hanley and onwards. By 'good' I mean 'effin great'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    Jack Wells and Ben Kilner have both gone on a months loan deal to Toronto. They've both missed most of the last two seasons with injuries but have shown up well in the reserves this year so far. It'll be interesting to see how they go v Saints on Saturday.
    So what? No one cares about your team you ••••ing crank. No it won't be interesting in the slightest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    Jack Wells and Ben Kilner have both gone on a months loan deal to Toronto. They've both missed most of the last two seasons with injuries but have shown up well in the reserves this year so far. It'll be interesting to see how they go v Saints on Saturday.

    Two youngsters Rogues is keeping an eye on. In the world of HR a pattern is emerging.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    I think by bringing up Scully you’ve got to the bottom of it. I think resilience and desire are qualities every bit as important as speed, size and power. Scully had resilience and desire in skiploads, along with an unbelievable skill set - he would have been a world class player in pretty much any circumstances.

    The trouble with big powerful lads is that they can sail through the age groups without having their desire or resilience tested - especially with the limited talent pool we have here. It’s only when they get into a first team environment that these shortcomings really come to light.

    Ps. If Scully was average from ‘97 to ‘99 I hope we’ve got some average young forwards ready to break through now.


    I was thinking the same. I doubt I will ever see another one as good as Scully was.

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    Didn't we pay a world record fee for an average Scully. Average I will have team full.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    I think by bringing up Scully you’ve got to the bottom of it. I think resilience and desire are qualities every bit as important as speed, size and power. Scully had resilience and desire in skiploads, along with an unbelievable skill set - he would have been a world class player in pretty much any circumstances.

    The trouble with big powerful lads is that they can sail through the age groups without having their desire or resilience tested - especially with the limited talent pool we have here. It’s only when they get into a first team environment that these shortcomings really come to light.

    Ps. If Scully was average from ‘97 to ‘99 I hope we’ve got some average young forwards ready to break through now.
    Yeah Dux average was a bad choice of words, although by his own admission 1998-1999 he felt hampered by the pressure of expectation and record fee. He did make the GB squads that time but from 1999 Mike Forshaw got selected ahead of Joynty for GB. Tough I think Joynty was on the "naughty step" for allowing Vangana to score when he heard the half-time siren and stopped playing.
    The point about resilience and having their own way too much at a young age may serve as an explanation for some drop off in performance and one I did not consider.

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