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Thread: Wigan V Toronto

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Budgiezilla View Post
    Thanks for that, so tell me, apart from having bigger home crowds, how do Toronto Barbarians boost Super League exactly ? And why do they NEVER bring any fans over here to their games, even tiny Leigh took over 400 to Toronto in 2018.
    Commercial profile (in the short term at least)?
    Nb. Flips both ways, if they do tits up. If they do then the game looks stupid again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Budgiezilla View Post
    Thanks for that, so tell me, apart from having bigger home crowds, how do Toronto Barbarians boost Super League exactly ? And why do they NEVER bring any fans over here to their games, even tiny Leigh took over 400 to Toronto in 2018.
    Difficult to take this serious.
    They do have a band of UK supporters who seem to be Canadian ex pat's. I'm sure they do bring fans over for the occasional game also but it would be rather expensive for them to follow away every week don't you think?
    As for publicity I think their promotion to SL and signing of SBW saw coverage in the media our game hasn't enjoyed in decades.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    I wouldn't really care if they went pop before the end of the season.
    I hope they at least wait until after May 2nd!

  4. #29
    Moderator Div's Avatar
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    I have banged on about the importance of traditional areas for years on here. I really thought the presence of Leigh, Widnes, etc would be great for Saints. More local derbies, bigger crowds. The reality was when they did win their place their townsfolk didn't turn up and support them.
    I note Eddies cynicism above about expansion and it's got historical credence. However, I think it's almost the last throw off the dice before a return to part timism.
    If we don't get an renewed and improved TV deal most clubs will be unviable.
    Toronto may or may not be a flash in the pan. It's worth a go and some bloke is the one who is gambling his money. It's not the game who is risking it financially only reputation if it fails.
    Fad or not they are attracting treble the crowds of a number of clubs in SL.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    I have banged on about the importance of traditional areas for years on here. I really thought the presence of Leigh, Widnes, etc would be great for Saints. More local derbies, bigger crowds. The reality was when they did win their place their townsfolk didn't turn up and support them.
    I note Eddies cynicism above about expansion and it's got historical credence. However, I think it's almost the last throw off the dice before a return to part timism.
    If we don't get an renewed and improved TV deal most clubs will be unviable.
    Toronto may or may not be a flash in the pan. It's worth a go and some bloke is the one who is gambling his money. It's not the game who is risking it financially only reputation if it fails.
    Fad or not they are attracting treble the crowds of a number of clubs in SL.
    FWIW I agree Div, as I said the irony is not lost that the game needs to take that gamble now despite my original post.
    Put simply, the game has lost to much of its strength, presence, visibility etc in areas once considered the heartlands. Once upon a time there were proud Swinton, Oldham clubs; now that team is a skeleton of what it was. Once a generation is lost, its very difficult to get them back. For me there are too many clubs at risk of getting to this point.

  6. #31
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    Do you remember when the "mergers" were first proposed. Thousand of "fans" marched against it something like 30K at Wakefield, Featherstone and Cas.

    Those fans however didn't (don't) attend the games then or now, yet will be the first to moan if superleague becomes a closed shop and they are not in.

    As for the Wigan v Toronto game the attendance was 5% up on the London game last season, which is ok for a Thursday night televised match and higher than seven of Saints Superleague attendances last season.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    Do you remember when the "mergers" were first proposed. Thousand of "fans" marched against it something like 30K at Wakefield, Featherstone and Cas.

    Those fans however didn't (don't) attend the games then or now, yet will be the first to moan if superleague becomes a closed shop and they are not in.

    As for the Wigan v Toronto game the attendance was 5% up on the London game last season, which is ok for a Thursday night televised match and higher than seven of Saints Superleague attendances last season.
    You must have actually sat down next to a computer screen, googled Saints attendances last season, counted up all the games and then compared this with your attendance on Thursday night. Obsessed!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    Do you remember when the "mergers" were first proposed. Thousand of "fans" marched against it something like 30K at Wakefield, Featherstone and Cas.

    Those fans however didn't (don't) attend the games then or now, yet will be the first to moan if superleague becomes a closed shop and they are not in.

    As for the Wigan v Toronto game the attendance was 5% up on the London game last season, which is ok for a Thursday night televised match and higher than seven of Saints Superleague attendances last season.
    Wigan seem to add on a couple of thousand of speccies for good luck to there attendances ?
    The attendances Cas are getting seems to be holding up well few hundred Wigan supporters there last Friday and a crowd of just under 9,000

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    You must have actually sat down next to a computer screen, googled Saints attendances last season, counted up all the games and then compared this with your attendance on Thursday night. Obsessed!
    Not true, I keep a record of attendances to see how trends are, and have done for over 15 years. As long as my OLD XL programme still works I'll carry on. It's quite simple really if you know how to use a spreadsheet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    Not true, I keep a record of attendances to see how trends are, and have done for over 15 years. As long as my OLD XL programme still works I'll carry on. It's quite simple really if you know how to use a spreadsheet.
    We all know how to Excel. Just that we all like to do more interesting things with our free time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    We all know how to Excel. Just that we all like to do more interesting things with our free time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    We all know how to Excel. Just that we all like to do more interesting things with our free time.
    Like reading RG’s posts? ��

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    Quote Originally Posted by barry View Post
    Toronto haven't recieved any money, it has been invested by the owner who for one reason or another didn't want to invest in Crusaders or Gateshead. The problem Toronto have is that they aren't going to be able to build. They will be relegated this season and SBW isn't going to playing in the Championship next season for one. Catalans (despite the fault with the league structure at the time) where given 3 seasons to grow, Toronto don't have that.

    Toronto have an average squad, a publicity stunt signing who is past his best and are relying on other teams being knackered when they play them in Canada. I want them to succeed and we will see over the summer how their fans react to Superleague and their probable poor form to judge what they bring to the game off the field. Poor recruitment and a threadbare squad suggests to me they will fail.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    When you say "Toronto haven't received any money" you appear to be implying that I am saying that they have received money from the RL. I haven't said that at all. I am merely stating that if said money had been invested elsewhere (by whomever has bankrolled the Toronto experiment) it may have served the game better. Naturally an individual with the resources to bankroll an SL team can pick whichever team he likes. I was merely stating that I don't think the Toronto experiment will be a success for the reasons I mentioned, and which you have indeed pointed out yourself.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyprus View Post
    Sadly for RL the major influencers have been Fat Nige, Double glazing Gary and Ralph the Rim. The common denominator is they all needed to make money from the game knowing it was their only real vehicle.

    In return money men like Eamon Moran and Pollard are treated with suspicion. Minor clubs like Oldham and Bradford realise the RFL handout is their only way to survive and the influencers know exactly how to play them.

    I correlate the RFL to a failing Borough Council or Trade Union not prepared to change and think differently. I remember Oxley and Howes who dragged the game from bankruptcy and changed it by at least trying new things.
    Spot on mate. This has been the major failing of RL. It's not the players or the product, it's the total mismanagement of the game with said management being paid inordinate amounts for doing a poor job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    Difficult to take this serious.
    They do have a band of UK supporters who seem to be Canadian ex pat's. I'm sure they do bring fans over for the occasional game also but it would be rather expensive for them to follow away every week don't you think?
    As for publicity I think their promotion to SL and signing of SBW saw coverage in the media our game hasn't enjoyed in decades.
    Fair enough, but they don't get much bigger than Wigan (away) sorry, there was about 20 Toronto fans at the game. And as for publicity, how has that been converted into cash exactly ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Budgiezilla View Post
    Fair enough, but they don't get much bigger than Wigan (away) sorry, there was about 20 Toronto fans at the game. And as for publicity, how has that been converted into cash exactly ?
    Difficult to quantify £ value but clearly if the existence of Toronto and signing of SBW increases the profile of the sport then clearly there is a better chance of negotiating an improved deal for TV rights for one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    Not true, I keep a record of attendances to see how trends are, and have done for over 15 years. As long as my OLD XL programme still works I'll carry on. It's quite simple really if you know how to use a spreadsheet.
    Why did you feel the need to compare it in a favourable light against Saints attendances then instead of your scum?
    And don't say it's because you are on a Saints forum.
    You really are sad
    "The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom." Danny Blanchflower.
    Might have been written by a footballer about football - but never a truer word............

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    He is a bitter and twisted man who ran for the hills following our GF win. Now the weasel is back quoting his usual drivel. He wants to get his EXCEL stained sheet out of the year they got relegated and averaged little above three thousand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    Difficult to quantify £ value but clearly if the existence of Toronto and signing of SBW increases the profile of the sport then clearly there is a better chance of negotiating an improved deal for TV rights for one.
    Case in point. Superleague isnt watched by, I would estimate, the majority of even true League fans in NZ. However, everyone in NZ has heard of SBW. When the news broke here it ignited a reasonable amount of interest in SL. I'm not saying it is a turning point or anything as a lot of people consider him to be quite mercenary but it still got chins wagging about SL in a lot of quarters. Sky TV in NZ is in a bit of a death throe at present with a lot of people preferring other means of TV etc. Personally I get mine via Vodafone fibre network but I only kept the Sky account included because of the League and Darts to be honest. The SBW news was a bit of a fillip for Sky even for a short while.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyprus View Post
    He is a bitter and twisted man who ran for the hills following our GF win. Now the weasel is back quoting his usual drivel. He wants to get his EXCEL stained sheet out of the year they got relegated and averaged little above three thousand.
    Not so often you're right but you're wrong again.
    According to Bilko now there is a stats man the average for that seasons league games was 4,744

    http://wigan.rlfans.com/fusion_pages...hp?page_id=489

    Attendances at that time in RL were dire, I'd be surprised if Saints average league attendance that year was was more than 5,500

    And the reason for my post was to show the op that the attendance v Toronto was not as bad as he insinuated
    .hth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    Not so often you're right but you're wrong again.
    According to Bilko now there is a stats man the average for that seasons league games was 4,744

    http://wigan.rlfans.com/fusion_pages...hp?page_id=489

    Attendances at that time in RL were dire, I'd be surprised if Saints average league attendance that year was was more than 5,500

    And the reason for my post was to show the op that the attendance v Toronto was not as bad as he insinuated
    .hth
    What was the attendance when you squeezed (fortuitously) past Pilks Recs.
    Hope you have fun with that spreadsheet because that shit pack isn't going to win you any trophies any time soon. Tony Clubb lol.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    What was the attendance when you squeezed (fortuitously) past Pilks Recs.
    Hope you have fun with that spreadsheet because that shit pack isn't going to win you any trophies any time soon. Tony Clubb lol.
    I went to that game ! I think the crowd was around 10,000 if my memory isn't playing tricks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    I went to that game ! I think the crowd was around 10,000 if my memory isn't playing tricks.
    Me too.
    Attendance of 11,000 according to Bilkos site.
    That would have been bigger than most clubs were getting for their league attendances, shows just how much the Challenge Cup has fallen out of favour these days.

    http://wigan.rlfans.com/news.php?readmore=2202

    Just checked it was better attended than either the Boxing Day or Good Friday Wigan v Saints games that season.

  24. #49
    Moderator Div's Avatar
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    Indeed. I remember the fanfare and excitement over the arrival of Mal Meninga for us.
    His debut at Knowsley Road against Castleford drew a crowd of just over 7000.
    That would have been well up on the usual too around that time when 4000 would have been commonplace.

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    The RFL allowed SKY to treat the Challenge Cup with disregard. I think the Cup competition has always been enjoyed in this country; ok trips to London are'nt as novel as they were but we still have upsets, a comparatively new Wembley and favourable ticket pricing. On the last point the fact that many superleague clubs reduced their ST to the quivalent of a free season ticket with a Happy Meal hasn't helped; its created a culture where people seem to treat the Cup as something that should be free.

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