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Thread: Wigan V Toronto

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    Default Wigan V Toronto

    Did anybody manage to watch this game last night in it entirety?

    Utter shite. I cant say i have every been a fan if Having Toronto in SL but watching that last night made me feel our game is in free fall .

    Empty stadia , poor rugby ( wigan are in a mess) no atmosphere .

    The wigan player And Lamb celebrating that win . All smiling and being joyous at the end . If in was a wigan player in would have walked of in disgust given how bad they were. Is really the standard now are are wigan really that bad?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side Of The Moon View Post
    Did anybody manage to watch this game last night in it entirety?

    Utter shite. I cant say i have every been a fan if Having Toronto in SL but watching that last night made me feel our game is in free fall .

    Empty stadia , poor rugby ( wigan are in a mess) no atmosphere .

    The wigan player And Lamb celebrating that win . All smiling and being joyous at the end . If in was a wigan player in would have walked of in disgust given how bad they were. Is really the standard now are are wigan really that bad?

    I've no idea where wi*an are in terms of quality this season.

    On paper, they look very 'distinctly average' and they struggled to beat Wire, who played most of the game with 12 and were down to 11 at one point. But then Wire dicked [an albeit weakened] us the week after. Then Cas at home only just beat the piescum (2 tries each, Danny Rich's kicks won it for Cas). In that game last night, wi*an were generally the better team but early in the 2nd half it was 10-10 before a winless Toronto with more players missing than us last week tired and let in some late tries.

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    The crowd wasn't that bad was it? Think they announced over 12 thousand? For a Thursday with minimal away support that's not too shabby.

    As for Cas they were allegedly missing 12 first choice players last week?

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    It was a team of has beens who are now realising that they can't knock over part time teams every week (now they're in SL) against a team that look totally devoid of ideas or spirit. Toronto exposed some glaring floors in the Wigan side, who looked distinctly average. The usual Wigan fire (headhunting, lying on, whinging to the ref) appeared absent (although there were a couple of bell ringers courtesy of the usual suspects, they were at home, after all!) and it was only when Toronto tired that Wigan finally overcame them. An embarrassing advert for our game I'm afraid. I don't think the Toronto experiment will work as it's not been built up from the grass roots. I wonder what could've been achieved with all the money and publicity that Toronto have received if said resources had been ploughed in to Gateshead, north Wales or other areas where there is a grass roots presence within the UK (I know those areas have been explored before, but not with the financial clout or SKY fanfare behind Toronto). To just dump a load of ex SL players in Toronto and then expect the game to catch on over there is pretty infantile. I'd rather teams won the Championship and entered SL on merit, not on the back of a cheque book. Toronto will go straight back down (probably wont win a match) and the experiment will be over.

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    Toronto did start in the bottom League and have earned their place legitimately have they not?
    The guy behind Toronto has ploughed his money in there and that's his choice- no point going on about Newcastle, Wales, etc. It's not as if it's the "games" money it's a private investor.
    They are pulling bigger attendances at home than half of SL clubs. I don't see what there is to gripe about.

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    Still thinking I should have put money on French being top try scorer come season's end. Their only outlet at times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prez View Post
    It was a team of has beens who are now realising that they can't knock over part time teams every week (now they're in SL) against a team that look totally devoid of ideas or spirit. Toronto exposed some glaring floors in the Wigan side, who looked distinctly average. The usual Wigan fire (headhunting, lying on, whinging to the ref) appeared absent (although there were a couple of bell ringers courtesy of the usual suspects, they were at home, after all!) and it was only when Toronto tired that Wigan finally overcame them. An embarrassing advert for our game I'm afraid. I don't think the Toronto experiment will work as it's not been built up from the grass roots. I wonder what could've been achieved with all the money and publicity that Toronto have received if said resources had been ploughed in to Gateshead, north Wales or other areas where there is a grass roots presence within the UK (I know those areas have been explored before, but not with the financial clout or SKY fanfare behind Toronto). To just dump a load of ex SL players in Toronto and then expect the game to catch on over there is pretty infantile. I'd rather teams won the Championship and entered SL on merit, not on the back of a cheque book. Toronto will go straight back down (probably wont win a match) and the experiment will be over.
    Toronto haven't recieved any money, it has been invested by the owner who for one reason or another didn't want to invest in Crusaders or Gateshead. The problem Toronto have is that they aren't going to be able to build. They will be relegated this season and SBW isn't going to playing in the Championship next season for one. Catalans (despite the fault with the league structure at the time) where given 3 seasons to grow, Toronto don't have that.

    Toronto have an average squad, a publicity stunt signing who is past his best and are relying on other teams being knackered when they play them in Canada. I want them to succeed and we will see over the summer how their fans react to Superleague and their probable poor form to judge what they bring to the game off the field. Poor recruitment and a threadbare squad suggests to me they will fail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    Toronto did start in the bottom League and have earned their place legitimately have they not?
    The guy behind Toronto has ploughed his money in there and that's his choice- no point going on about Newcastle, Wales, etc. It's not as if it's the "games" money it's a private investor.
    They are pulling bigger attendances at home than half of SL clubs. I don't see what there is to gripe about.
    Totally agree. They have made big mistakes with some of their contracts which i'm sure they would admit to and other mistakes have been made such as the "home on the road games" but this club is in it's 4th year. David Argyle investing the money lives in Toronto and attends the games. He genuinely loves rugby league. The publicity the Wolfpack have brought is fantastic for the game. Once super league club fans experience a game in Canada they are going to realize that it's a huge asset to Rugby League. Without them the next TV deal could be a big hit on the pockets of the owners.

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    Im not sure how any team with Tony Clubb in their side can be considered joint favourites for the title. Look like an 90s doorman at Lowies or something. Terrible player and there are other players in that pack who are also junk. Warrington and Hull look far better contenders so far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon Sexton View Post
    Still thinking I should have put money on French being top try scorer come season's end. Their only outlet at times.
    I thought the same myself. It’s obvious they’ve set up with him at FB knowing he’s their only threat. I don’t blame them but it all looks a bit desperate

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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    The crowd wasn't that bad was it? Think they announced over 12 thousand? For a Thursday with minimal away support that's not too shabby.
    That’s always the problem with the DW though, where a 12k crowd means the place is less than half full and looks awful on TV. Hull have the same issue where they pull in decent crowds but it looks sparse. Compare Wire with 12k in and the place looks like it’s bouncing, whilst we and Leeds can get 12k and it looks healthy enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    Toronto did start in the bottom League and have earned their place legitimately have they not?
    The guy behind Toronto has ploughed his money in there and that's his choice- no point going on about Newcastle, Wales, etc. It's not as if it's the "games" money it's a private investor.
    They are pulling bigger attendances at home than half of SL clubs. I don't see what there is to gripe about.
    Some people just hate change. They’d be happier giving a super league place to a Leigh or a Widnes and their sub 5k crowds whilst rugby league gets left further and further behind by other major sports. Expansion is vital or the game we love will eventually die out as a professional sport. Rugby league cannot survive as a sport played in a few cities in Australia, one in NZ, a couple in France and two counties in England. The more private investors that want to throw money at the game the better, because we are one non-renewed Sky TV deal away from half the super league clubs not being able to afford the salary cap.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    Some people just hate change. They’d be happier giving a super league place to a Leigh or a Widnes and their sub 5k crowds whilst rugby league gets left further and further behind by other major sports. Expansion is vital or the game we love will eventually die out as a professional sport. Rugby league cannot survive as a sport played in a few cities in Australia, one in NZ, a couple in France and two counties in England. The more private investors that want to throw money at the game the better, because we are one non-renewed Sky TV deal away from half the super league clubs not being able to afford the salary cap.
    People have seen expansion in its various forms poorly executed so many times they are right to be cynical. As Div pointed out, this time we know there is a private investor to underwrite Toronto but its all the SL clubs that take a hit to their credibility if it all goes tits up. Evidence suggests thats more likely than unlikely.

    Whilst your right that the game needs to spread to improve profile and commercial strength, Im more than dubious that a team in Canada is the right way to do it. A team 10 hours away with no link whatsoever to the sport bar an Australian tycoon just doesnt sit right and it almost imbalances the commercial identity/brand of the sport. It would be like Pilkington’s entering the sporting apparel market. I think Elstone also noted something along the same lines.

    Of course we’ve heard all the arguments about the support Toronto are enjoying presently. But whilst that’s encouraging evidence suggests many new sporting ventures usually experience fair short term interest and its the long term test thats key: London Monarchs? Gateshead Thunder? Manchester Storm? All examples of teams in different sports in the UK that went to the wall after early promise.

    The bitter irony is that the RFL have hurt the game do much that it needs to gamble on a Toronto. The British game has withered in many areas under its current watch; from a dwindling fanbase to a weaker commercial portfolio.
    (Interestingly RL in Australia seems as strong as ever).

    Hopefully the Wolfpack suceed but its hardly surprising that people are sceptical.
    Last edited by eddiewaringsflatcap; 15th February 2020 at 23:21.

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    Sadly for RL the major influencers have been Fat Nige, Double glazing Gary and Ralph the Rim. The common denominator is they all needed to make money from the game knowing it was their only real vehicle.

    In return money men like Eamon Moran and Pollard are treated with suspicion. Minor clubs like Oldham and Bradford realise the RFL handout is their only way to survive and the influencers know exactly how to play them.

    I correlate the RFL to a failing Borough Council or Trade Union not prepared to change and think differently. I remember Oxley and Howes who dragged the game from bankruptcy and changed it by at least trying new things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyprus View Post
    Sadly for RL the major influencers have been Fat Nige, Double glazing Gary and Ralph the Rim. The common denominator is they all needed to make money from the game knowing it was their only real vehicle.

    In return money men like Eamon Moran and Pollard are treated with suspicion. Minor clubs like Oldham and Bradford realise the RFL handout is their only way to survive and the influencers know exactly how to play them.

    I correlate the RFL to a failing Borough Council or Trade Union not prepared to change and think differently. I remember Oxley and Howes who dragged the game from bankruptcy and changed it by at least trying new things.
    Pretty much bang on. Where else would Wood command a base salary of circa £350k? The lack of corporate governance in the RFL allowed him to reward himself for years. A total oxygen thief.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Pretty much bang on. Where else would Wood command a base salary of circa £350k? The lack of corporate governance in the RFL allowed him to reward himself for years. A total oxygen thief.
    When you think of the coin he was on, it is simply staggering. Plenty of innovative, hard-working, intelligent people will never get close to earning that & contribute infinite more value to their line of work.

    An old boys club if ever there was one. Disgraceful

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    Just had a look at the make up of the RFL Board. Rimmer is the only permanent RFL employee on the Board. Probably pretty easy to overcompensate yourself in that situation.

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    Poor start for Toronto who are not looking that strong so far

    Will be interesting to see what effect actually playing in Canada has on opposition teams. That must be a main hope of theirs or at least enough to get them enough points to survive this year out

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    Quote Originally Posted by headtackle View Post
    Poor start for Toronto who are not looking that strong so far

    Will be interesting to see what effect actually playing in Canada has on opposition teams. That must be a main hope of theirs or at least enough to get them enough points to survive this year out
    I wouldn't really care if they went pop before the end of the season.

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    Wigan ?

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    If they survive, at who’s expense would we want it?


    Huddersfield?

    Hulk KR?

    Wakefield??


    Teams that might not make it back up.....

    Expansion is a cute idea doomed to failure, because the infrastructure of the RFL won’t allow it to succeed. It’s a closed shop for the boys......
    Can't stop the spirits when they need you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    If they survive, at who’s expense would we want it?


    Huddersfield?

    Hulk KR?

    Wakefield??


    Teams that might not make it back up.....

    Expansion is a cute idea doomed to failure, because the infrastructure of the RFL won’t allow it to succeed. It’s a closed shop for the boys......
    Yup.

    You need not go any further than the modernised/new stadium regulations they put out.

    We all know how that went

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    If they survive, at who’s expense would we want it?


    Huddersfield?

    Hulk KR?

    Wakefield??


    Teams that might not make it back up.....

    Expansion is a cute idea doomed to failure, because the infrastructure of the RFL won’t allow it to succeed. It’s a closed shop for the boys......
    Would anyone miss those teams?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    Would anyone miss those teams?
    If no one came in to replace them we'd probably be struggling to have enough teams to form a league.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    Some people just hate change. They’d be happier giving a super league place to a Leigh or a Widnes and their sub 5k crowds whilst rugby league gets left further and further behind by other major sports.
    Thanks for that, so tell me, apart from having bigger home crowds, how do Toronto Barbarians boost Super League exactly ? And why do they NEVER bring any fans over here to their games, even tiny Leigh took over 400 to Toronto in 2018.

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