Chapel House Motor Company Limited Advertising Banner
Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 127

Thread: Forward Pack Transition

  1. #1
    Got A Season Ticket
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Here, There, Everywhere
    Posts
    369
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Forward Pack Transition

    It got touched upon in the Thommo thread but think it deserves its own.

    With Thommo going and Taia (35), Amor (32), Roby (34) and LMS (34) coming to their end, the club have a massive job on their hands building for the next year or two to reinvent the pack that's been pretty dominant now for two full seasons.

    Lees is looking excellent but there's doubts over Ashworth, Bentley and Smith for me.

    Interesting times!

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    4,739
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Interesting point and one I'm not sure about myself.

    Lees: Agree with you
    Ashworth: I like him but he isn't a prop.
    Bentley: Has the makings of a good player.
    Smith: Don't really rate him.

    Taia: Probably he last season though looked very good against Salford.
    Amor: I'm unsure.
    Roby: See how this season pans out but I fear the worst.
    LMS: Again unsure but time isn't on his side.

    Do we have any young lads coming through? What lads are there with potential in lower divisions? What's happening with Joe Batchelor?

  3. #3
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    11,131
    Rep Power
    32

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    Interesting point and one I'm not sure about myself.

    Lees: Agree with you
    Ashworth: I like him but he isn't a prop.
    Bentley: Has the makings of a good player.
    Smith: Don't really rate him.

    Taia: Probably he last season though looked very good against Salford.
    Amor: I'm unsure.
    Roby: See how this season pans out but I fear the worst.
    LMS: Again unsure but time isn't on his side.


    Do we have any young lads coming through? What lads are there with potential in lower divisions? What's happening with Joe Batchelor?
    For me size will be a big issue.
    Lees I really like, but is he a starting prop, or better coming on when defences are ?
    Ashworth up to now hasn't been consistent enough, maybe a rum in the SR will do him good.
    Bentley a good utility player but is no bigger than Naiqama.
    For me you can't leave Knowels out but I would not want to see him and Bentley end up as our SR.
    We need another Big mobile prop and at least on big SR.

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Wilts
    Posts
    5,346
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    It will be interesting to see what the club do because I can't see them letting all of Taia, LMS, Paulo, Amor and Peyroux leave at the end of their contracts.
    With Thompson already gone that's far too many players leaving. I expect at least 1 to sign a new deal.
    In respect of the OP, I'm not sure what the questions are against Bentley; he looks a good player and well set to be a regular for the foreseeable future.

    The question marks for me are Ashworth who I didn't think progressed as well as I thought last year and looked a bit slow and Smith who seems to have plateaued. I'd like to see how Eaves gets on if he can stay injury free.

    My guess is we'll see this:

    Lees
    Roby
    Walmsley
    Peyroux
    Bentley
    Knowles

    LMS
    Eaves
    *New Signing Prop - Overseas*
    *New Signing Prop - Overseas/UK*
    *New Signing Second Row - Overseas/UK*

    Goners: Amor, Taia, Thompson, Paulo

    I'm not sure about which kids are ready to step up; one the first team squad we have: Foster, Hazzard and Wingfield though I haven't seen them in all honesty so can't pass comment.
    For a replacement for the 4th prop I'd enquire on Dudson who I thought went very well for Salford last year. The key prop and second rows are more likely to come from the NRL. I wonder if the club may enquire on Watts?

  5. #5
    really is sorry Reacher's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Wigan
    Age
    48
    Posts
    11,957
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    It will be interesting to see what the club do because I can't see them letting all of Taia, LMS, Paulo, Amor and Peyroux leave at the end of their contracts.
    With Thompson gone that's far too many players leaving. I expect at least 1 to sign a new deal.
    In respect of the OP, I'm not sure what the questions are against Bentley; he looks a good player and well set to be a regular for the foreseeable future.

    The question marks for me are Ashworth who I didn't think progressed as well as I thought last year and looked a bit slow and Smith who seems to have plateaued. I'd like to see how Eaves gets on if he can stay injury free.

    My guess is we'll see this:

    Lees
    Roby
    Walmsley
    Peyroux
    Bentley
    Knowles

    LMS
    Eaves
    *New Signing Prop - Overseas*
    *New Signing Prop - Overseas/UK*
    *New Signing Second Row - Overseas/UK*

    Goners: Amor, Taia, Thompson, Paulo

    I'm not sure about which kids are ready to step up; one the first team squad we have: Foster, Hazzard and Wingfield though I haven't seen them in all honesty so can't pass comment.
    For a replacement for the 4th prop I'd enquire on Dudson who I thought went very well for Salford last year. The key prop and second rows are more likely to come from the NRL.
    You've missed out Batchelor completely there. Not sure what the deal is with him. He played in the LMS Testimonial and we signed him when a number of clubs were after him, but I've no idea what his future is.

  6. #6
    Starting A Programme Collection
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    758
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    I have put some thought to this myself. Lots of work behind the scene this year in terms of recruitment.

    Agree with the first post

    Lees is a must going forward with big Al and Knowles being the other certainty’s

    This year is a big year for Bentley, Smith & Ashworth.
    Ultimately non of these are a replacement for Roby or Thompson . We need to recruit for these two key areas unless Fage is to move to 9 and Dodd is upto the challenge to move into the halves. This could be a bit risky.

    Also , is Peyroux out of contract at the end of the season?

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Wilts
    Posts
    5,346
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    You've missed out Batchelor completely there. Not sure what the deal is with him. He played in the LMS Testimonial and we signed him when a number of clubs were after him, but I've no idea what his future is.
    I know mate, but I just don't know where he stands...? Your more in the know than me and don't sound much more dialled in on this one. I assumed the worst because its always pointless assuming all the kids will come on. It just doesn't happen. That's why it always humours me when RG obsesses about every minutiae of detail in the academy results - the attrition rate to the first team is so high that its more important to have say 2, maybe 3 very good kids and a mediocre rest than a team of good players with none ever likely to set the world on fire.

  8. #8
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Blobbynator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    9,202
    Rep Power
    31

    Default

    It will be tough to replace the quality of some of those players, Roby especially will be almost impossible to replace and why its important we give the likes of Smith, Eaves and Bentley time to see if and where they fit. If they don't step up and make the 9 position their own then I'm not sure who we recruit there really and its such an important position.

    I think the next two seasons of recruitment will determine how we do over the 4 or 5 years after that. When the likes of Long, Pryce, Wellens, Graham etc left the club, the recruitment wasn't upto scratch and we had a very poor few years after it. It was only when Nathan Brown came in and identified problem positions, we started to get back on track a bit and then Cunningham ruined it all by recruiting some really poor players along with some poor coaching methods / decisions.

    We have got it back on track recently with some very wise recruitment decisions and excellent choices of coaches, but there's no doubt Woolf and Mike Rush have a big challenge ahead with some influential players inevitably leaving and retiring.

    We really need to capitalize and win trophies over the next couple of seasons whilst we still have the bulk of this squad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Despondent Dave
    Blobby is a man of style, panache and impeccable taste

  9. #9
    Got A Season Ticket
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    249
    Rep Power
    15

    Default

    I think it is critical we get the recruitment spot on for next season. We could go from having the best pack in the league to having an average one. I don't think you can replace Thompson. I would get Lees signed up on a new and improved deal and bring another quality prop in and utility forward. I like Bentley he gets stuck in although he isn't a hooker and sometimes I wonder if he is a tad small for a backrower. I would have thought Batchelor would have played a few first team games by now . He is another who had a good pre season. Lots of rumours bound to be flying around over the coming months. Lets hope Saints can pull some good signings off!!

  10. #10
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk STIDDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Kingdom of Wigoon
    Posts
    8,827
    Rep Power
    22

    Default

    I don't think we can maintain our standard with the loss of Thompson, Amor, Tai, Paulo next season and Roby, LMS the season after that. We need to nail down Knowles, Lees and Walmsley into longer term contracts. Luckily its going to be the same problem for a lot of other teams especially Wigan and Warrington who also have an ageing pack, we don't have any front rowers coming through from our Academy the best forwards will not move to Superleague with the widening salary cap, so its the Championship may be the only way forward.

    We've mentioned the Woolf connection with Tonga but its a big gamble to sign an up and coming forward on a 3 year deal then he fails to come up to standard. A lot of Superleague clubs will be in transition and I fear the quality of our game in the UK will suffer.

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Wilts
    Posts
    5,346
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I don't think we can maintain our standard with the loss of Thompson, Amor, Tai, Paulo next season and Roby, LMS the season after that. We need to nail down Knowles, Lees and Walmsley into longer term contracts. Luckily its going to be the same problem for a lot of other teams especially Wigan and Warrington who also have an ageing pack, we don't have any front rowers coming through from our Academy the best forwards will not move to Superleague with the widening salary cap, so its the Championship may be the only way forward.

    We've mentioned the Woolf connection with Tonga but its a big gamble to sign an up and coming forward on a 3 year deal then he fails to come up to standard. A lot of Superleague clubs will be in transition and I fear the quality of our game in the UK will suffer.
    Paulo is junk so he isn't going to make one iota of difference, in fact it's good he's gone because it frees up money to replace him with someone who is far better.
    Amor and Taia are replaceable. Its the loss of Thompson which is devastating, its is very difficult to replace generation players like that.

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    547
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I don't think we can maintain our standard with the loss of Thompson, Amor, Tai, Paulo next season and Roby, LMS the season after that. We need to nail down Knowles, Lees and Walmsley into longer term contracts. Luckily its going to be the same problem for a lot of other teams especially Wigan and Warrington who also have an ageing pack, we don't have any front rowers coming through from our Academy the best forwards will not move to Superleague with the widening salary cap, so its the Championship may be the only way forward.

    We've mentioned the Woolf connection with Tonga but its a big gamble to sign an up and coming forward on a 3 year deal then he fails to come up to standard. A lot of Superleague clubs will be in transition and I fear the quality of our game in the UK will suffer.
    Didn't Knowles sign a new four year deal last year ?

  13. #13
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Blobbynator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    9,202
    Rep Power
    31

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mufcsaint View Post
    Didn't Knowles sign a new four year deal last year ?
    No, he signed a new deal at the end of the 2017 season. He's got this year and next year left on his deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Despondent Dave
    Blobby is a man of style, panache and impeccable taste

  14. #14
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    under the laughing tree
    Posts
    1,270
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Paulo is junk so he isn't going to make one iota of difference, in fact it's good he's gone because it frees up money to replace him with someone who is far better.
    Amor and Taia are replaceable. Its the loss of Thompson which is devastating, its is very difficult to replace generation players like that.
    Haven’t we got Paulo till the end of 2021 ?. He might improve as the season goes on, Peyroux wasn’t a world beater when he first joined Saints despite him being a fan’s favourite from day one.

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    N-L-W
    Posts
    606
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Ideally the transition needs to be over 2 seasons rather than everyone leaving at the end of this. That should help. Hopefully

    I reckon Zeb will do another year as he has been superb the last 12 months and doesn’t seem to be slowing down.

    With regards to Thommos replacement we should throw some money at Watts or Fifita as they’re proven in SL and should slot straight in. Less of a gamble.

    I still think we need a proven 9 to replace Roby but I’m not sure who.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  16. #16
    Starting A Programme Collection MachineGunFunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    The Sintellins Metropolis
    Posts
    886
    Rep Power
    16

    Default

    Pretty sure I've got this right - off contract at the end of this season :

    Thompson
    Taia
    McCarthy-Scarsbrook
    Amor
    Peyroux
    Ashworth
    Bentley
    Costello
    "Never write off the Saints!!"

  17. #17
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    11,131
    Rep Power
    32

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by undertheradar View Post
    Ideally the transition needs to be over 2 seasons rather than everyone leaving at the end of this. That should help. Hopefully

    I reckon Zeb will do another year as he has been superb the last 12 months and doesn’t seem to be slowing down.

    With regards to Thommos replacement we should throw some money at Watts or Fifita as they’re proven in SL and should slot straight in. Less of a gamble.

    I still think we need a proven 9 to replace Roby but I’m not sure who.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I'd really like to think that Zeb has another season in him, but he has had poor patches the last two seasons when he has looked tired. I think more in 2018 than 2019. He does seem to be able to get up for the big games though.

  18. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    4,739
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    This is what the ridiculously low salary cap does. I'm saying in this particular case it would've kept him here but it would've put us in a better bargaining position. It's seriously unfair to penalise weathier and solvent clubs because others can't do their sums.

  19. #19
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    1,211
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    This is what the ridiculously low salary cap does. I'm saying in this particular case it would've kept him here but it would've put us in a better bargaining position. It's seriously unfair to penalise weathier and solvent clubs because others can't do their sums.
    I agree, would it not be better if the cap was either a set amount or a percentage of income, whichever one is higher, it wouldn’t disadvantage those clubs who have a larger income, either that or homegrown players cost less against the cap than they do now.

  20. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    4,739
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsepho View Post
    I agree, would it not be better if the cap was either a set amount or a percentage of income, whichever one is higher, it wouldn’t disadvantage those clubs who have a larger income, either that or homegrown players cost less against the cap than they do now.
    It needs addressing but you get the feeling the likes Huddersfield and Wakefield are happy to plod along as they are because it allows them to compete to a certain extent, even though it means a lower standard overall. Then we wonder why we can't attract decent sponsorship, crowds and a TV deal when we won't even help ourselves by allowing our hands to be tied when it comes to retaining our best players.

  21. #21
    In The West Stand Ralph Fridge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Around
    Posts
    5,510
    Rep Power
    17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    This is what the ridiculously low salary cap does. I'm saying in this particular case it would've kept him here but it would've put us in a better bargaining position. It's seriously unfair to penalise weathier and solvent clubs because others can't do their sums.
    Most clubs are just happy to exist unfortunately. If it wasnt for Ken Davy, Huddersfield would have sunk long ago

  22. #22
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    4,739
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Most clubs are just happy to exist unfortunately. If it wasnt for Ken Davy, Huddersfield would have sunk long ago
    Exactly. Fair play to Davy for putting his money into them although they're one club that bring nothing to the table.

  23. #23
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk STIDDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Kingdom of Wigoon
    Posts
    8,827
    Rep Power
    22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    This is what the ridiculously low salary cap does. I'm saying in this particular case it would've kept him here but it would've put us in a better bargaining position. It's seriously unfair to penalise weathier and solvent clubs because others can't do their sums.
    It's basically going to kill our professional game if it goes on for another 2 or 3 years. Not sure when the new SKY deal is going to come up but if that stagnates and the World Cup 2021 doesn't receive the right amount of hype then we are going to be in serious trouble for the game as a whole.

  24. #24
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    1,105
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Part of the danger of an overseas coach is potential short term agenda thinking. If we have a great year with Wolfe he may then be gig back home mentality. I do feel Thompson going is pretty critical for us medium term. Ashworth isn't young by any means and I just think he lacks something a bit like Richards did. We needed a mongrel forward for years then Walmsley and Thompson jelled and bingo. Take those two out and we still lack aggression, size and youth in the pack.

  25. #25
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    704
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Personally i rate smith highly i think hes got potential to he a real good player. No roby but still good player. Would like to see us something like this

    Lees
    Smith (quicker around the rook and distributing)
    Walmsley
    New second rower
    Peryoux
    Knowles

    Bentley (use as rotating hooker/second row
    Lms
    Ashworth
    New signing (prop/second row)

    Batchelor
    Eaves
    Costello
    Dodd
    Welsby

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •