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Thread: 21 man squad v Warrington

  1. #101
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    Not that bothered seeing as though it’s round 2 and we had a lot of key players out but, whilst we were understandably sh*te, some of the errors were slightly worrying and I can’t understand the thinking behind leaving Bentley at hooker for that long, I’ve never seen distribution as bad. LMS was awful as well and I’d love to know which idiot thought giving Paulo a 3 year deal was good business, massive waste of space. Anyone decent would have put 40 on us tonight we were that bad. Thankfully we’ll have Knowles and Makinson back next week and hopefully Percival and Walmsley are fine.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by St Willy View Post
    Ashworth is garbage. At fault for the Clarke try. Offers nothing for me going forward.

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    Agree, he’s dreadful and I don’t understand why he seems to be highly rated. He isn’t good enough and unless he suddenly improves then I’d get rid.

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    The scary thing about last nights fiasco was none of the reserve players looked strong enough . I said a coup[e of years ago we need to sign at least two really big forwards , who have we signed Bentley & Paulo .

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintH517 View Post
    Not that bothered seeing as though it’s round 2 and we had a lot of key players out but, whilst we were understandably sh*te, some of the errors were slightly worrying and I can’t understand the thinking behind leaving Bentley at hooker for that long, I’ve never seen distribution as bad. LMS was awful as well and I’d love to know which idiot thought giving Paulo a 3 year deal was good business, massive waste of space. Anyone decent would have put 40 on us tonight we were that bad. Thankfully we’ll have Knowles and Makinson back next week and hopefully Percival and Walmsley are fine.

    I actually thought two of the players you picked out for criticism, LMS and Paulo were two of our best players during their time on the pitch.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke Eddington View Post
    I actually thought two of the players you picked out for criticism, LMS and Paulo were two of our best players during their time on the pitch.
    Agree. LMS was our best player

  6. #106
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    They scored one try in the second half against half a team. That’s an embarrassing as anything out there. Tough day at the office, but with so many out nothing much to worry about and we still defended well.

    Most concerning thing for me tonight is Bentleys one step then pass. Stop it please and play Smith.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by fonsboy View Post
    The scary thing about last nights fiasco was none of the reserve players looked strong enough . I said a coup[e of years ago we need to sign at least two really big forwards , who have we signed Bentley & Paulo .
    Paulo was not good enough for Justin that is about right for me

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke Eddington View Post
    I actually thought two of the players you picked out for criticism, LMS and Paulo were two of our best players during their time on the pitch.




    Paulo was the only forward with an offload, he played well as did LMS.

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    LMS gives 100 percent every week but he is not a loose forward the ball is dead every time he gets it , we will be much better when Knowles returns .

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    Default 21 man squad v Warrington

    Now that I’ve calmed down, last night was just one of those games

    Key players missing before the game, big al going down and the disruption it caused and then Percy getting injured during it. Add that to poor ball control and stupid penalties and you get the performance and result that we did.

    No need to overreact, it’s round 2 and the circumstances need to be taken into consideration. Once everyone is back we will be fine.


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  11. #111
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    Warrington were very good. They know how to play us and more worryingly, they seem to be able get on top of us physically as well. Not helped by Walmsley getting injured in the warm up.

    Charnley and Lineham get stick but they are 2 big, strong, quick lads who in my opinion, are 2 players we have problems with.

    The lad who comes off the bench for them at prop is another who is very physical & hurts you. He's handy.

    We were half a team down but Warrington were honestly, very very good. They've thumped us and we'll have to take that on the chin.

    Bentley at hooker needs to stop. He can't do it. Should be coming off the bench giving Peyroux or Taia a breather.

    Belgian mentioned last week about his concern over high kicks. Looks like he was bang on the money with that one. We were hopeless.

    Well done to Warrington.

    Oh and if we are going to turn into a set of grubs around the ruck, it usually helps being on top in the physical battle or you will get pinged time and time again. Which we did

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by barry View Post
    Muted it at 55 minutes.

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    Same here. Couldn't believe the way they were banging on about them and at the same time failing to acknowledge how many key players we were missing. As for Bill Arthur he all over the place. I honestly think he gives Ray French in his last couple of years commentating a run for his money in terms of getting players mixed up. He called their full back Ashton Welsby at one point. I'm sure last week I heard him call Welsby Roby. Wouldn't be so bad if he was even on the pitch.

    As for the game just have to write it off and move on. Coote, Percival, Makinson, Roby, Walmsley, Amor and Knowles all missing. That's half the side, is it really that surprising that we got beat.

    Sydney game is now becoming a big concern. I've gone from being fairly confident to thinking we may get another pasting.

  13. #113
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    Overall not disappointed.

    They put 17 points on an understrength team playing below par for an understrength team.

    We could and should and maybe did score. There are things we (the coach) can fix up without injured players coming back.

    Wire saw our compressed defence and spread it wide from the start, the coach should have got the message out straight away that they had figured us out from last week and to defend a bit wider.

    Smith at hooker was much better and would have helped at the start.

    Put people at fb and wing who can catch a ball, not just look good when attacking and already beaten Salford.

    Then just get you completion rate up and we would have run wire alot closer without one injured player having to come back.

    Makes me confident if that is the best they can do and the worst we can be.

    A wider lesson for the club, we can't just let players leave and no sign fresh blood. A back up winger would be a start.

  14. #114
    In The West Stand Ralph Fridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UhAhGeorgie Mann View Post
    Same here. Couldn't believe the way they were banging on about them and at the same time failing to acknowledge how many key players we were missing. As for Bill Arthur he all over the place. I honestly think he gives Ray French in his last couple of years commentating a run for his money in terms of getting players mixed up. He called their full back Ashton Welsby at one point. I'm sure last week I heard him call Welsby Roby. Wouldn't be so bad if he was even on the pitch.

    As for the game just have to write it off and move on. Coote, Percival, Makinson, Roby, Walmsley, Amor and Knowles all missing. That's half the side, is it really that surprising that we got beat.

    Sydney game is now becoming a big concern. I've gone from being fairly confident to thinking we may get another pasting.
    Me as well but we had a poor run in 2007 at the start before beating Brisbane. However, this Sydney Roosters team is a lot, lot better than that Brisbane team

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    Im gobsmacked why anyone thought we would win last night. Warrington will be up there along with us, Hull Fc and maybe wigan?. Warrington played well so fair play. The team we put out last night , i would not back them against any of the aforementioned.

    Even with a full team out i suspect last night would have been tough enough . To lose our senior prop in the warm up must have been a big psychological blow. The writing was in the wall from then on.

    Given the team and the amount of mistakes and penalties , We gave warrington every opportunity to put 40 points on us.

    If nothing else , it was a good experience for our youth .

    I suspect next week could be the same result . Not worried at all . It will only benefit our less experienced team later in the season

    Well done wire .
    COYS

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Warrington were very good. They know how to play us and more worryingly, they seem to be able get on top of us physically as well. Not helped by Walmsley getting injured in the warm up.

    Charnley and Lineham get stick but they are 2 big, strong, quick lads who in my opinion, are 2 players we have problems with.

    The lad who comes off the bench for them at prop is another who is very physical & hurts you. He's handy.

    We were half a team down but Warrington were honestly, very very good. They've thumped us and we'll have to take that on the chin.

    Bentley at hooker needs to stop. He can't do it. Should be coming off the bench giving Peyroux or Taia a breather.

    Belgian mentioned last week about his concern over high kicks. Looks like he was bang on the money with that one. We were hopeless.

    Well done to Warrington.

    Oh and if we are going to turn into a set of grubs around the ruck, it usually helps being on top in the physical battle or you will get pinged time and time again. Which we did
    I agree with most of that, Warrington played like the CC final very physical backed up by a good kicking game, OK we lost 6 players but we should have perhaps had a bit more composure to improve our completions, we still had enough experienced players to do that.

    Its already been mentioned by many that although Bentley put in a lot of effort his distribution is fairly average, I think Smith only came on in the last 20 mins. For me Woolf needs to change that the other way rood 20 mins Bentley 60 mins to Smith but I should imagine Roby is back next week. You can't fault our forwards for lack of physical effort but Warrington were so much better in getting the upper hand.

    When it came to decision making it was all rushed and poorly executed, the loss of Coote in that department is massive and these 2 games with Makinson missing his marauding runs doesn't help either. The positives were the energy from Lees and LMS, for Warrington they should have posted 30 points against us with 7 players missing and at the end of the day they have earned the early season bragging rights.

  17. #117
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    Firstly you've got to give Warrington credit. They came at us with intensity both with their carries and defensively in the tackle and made it very difficult for us. They wanted it and needed it more than we did and you could see they had a point to prove last night, so fair play.

    We were very disappointing though. You can use injuries as an excuse and whilst I think the disruption did affect us, there's no excuse for some of the errors we made with the ball. 10 penalties given away and 12 errors made in total is nowhere near good enough. I believe we had a completion rate of 53% in the 1st half, which is nowhere near good enough. We simply didn't give ourselves a chance last night.

    Our defence kept us in that game, otherwise we'd have been on the end of a pretty big scoreline. Apart from that, there's nothing really positive to say. Our attack in particular was dreadful, there was no zip from dummy half (we badly miss Roby in big games) and our timing on our set plays was awful.

    Our injury situation is starting to get a bit worrying. We got lucky last season with injury but have been hit with a spate of injuries so early in the season. Coote is out for a possible 4 weeks, Walmsley calf injury so could be out for a period of time, Percival is set to have a scan and could be out for a bit of time. We really need to get some bodies back on the park quick and not lose anybody else now. We will really miss Walmsley's go forward while he is out.
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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side Of The Moon View Post
    Im gobsmacked why anyone thought we would win last night. Warrington will be up there along with us, Hull Fc and maybe wigan?. Warrington played well so fair play. The team we put out last night , i would not back them against any of the aforementioned.

    Even with a full team out i suspect last night would have been tough enough . To lose our senior prop in the warm up must have been a big psychological blow. The writing was in the wall from then on.

    Given the team and the amount of mistakes and penalties , We gave warrington every opportunity to put 40 points on us.

    If nothing else , it was a good experience for our youth .

    I suspect next week could be the same result . Not worried at all . It will only benefit our less experienced team later in the season

    Well done wire .
    COYS
    Agree with all that. We were capable of playing better but any team in SL should fancy turning you over with half your first 13 missing. Wire played well, especially defending their own line

  19. #119
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    Given the plaudits that wire are being given, I decided to watch the game back to see if I watched a different game at the HJ. Wire were good but that's about it. They only scored 19 points in a game that we were never in, with the players we had out and the reshuffle we had to do during in the game. If that was the other way round, I'd expect us to put 40 on them. They were decent but not that special. A fully fit saints team walks over that wire team. Bad night at the office with mitigating circumstances.

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  20. #120
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    Bad day at the office. Warrington got on top and we couldn't find a way back into the game.

    Some good lessons to be learned from this on several fronts. Better to be doing this early in the season and coming good when need to.

    Disappointing performance. Move on and build.

  21. #121
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    Disappointed really, bit of an eye opener on a few of the players. Lots of work to do for a couple of them. That said, if we’d have won that game with six/seven players sat the stands I’d have been concerned about the game in this country put it that way. Even if you look at the tries they scored, one was from a kick (Makinson would have taken it in his sleep) and the other was only scored because we had Dom Peyroux defending at left centre by then and he misread the play which gave them space on the outside. Neither of those two tries would be scored any other week.

    I thought we started the game quite well and towards the middle of the half it felt like we were starting to take control of it, we were starting to dominate field position and IMO looked the more dominant team. Then Welsby dropped the high kick and we didn’t seem get any control back from that point onwards. I was a bit disappointed with the 20 minutes before half-time, we just needed to complete some sets and to try and take the sting out of the game. We didn’t do that and we kept gifting them possession in our half. At that stage I thought the scoreline could potentially have turned nasty. The discipline thing was an issue for us but for me it was just a reflection on how we struggled physically. They were just playing too quick for us and we ended up trying to slow them down for a bit too long and conceded penalties. Difficult with four senior forwards missing in the middle of the pitch though. I also thought we looked more comfortable defending on our own try line than we did further up the pitch.

    The only reason we stayed in the game was through effort and attitude really, particularly defensively. We learnt more about a few of the fringe players yesterday than we ever would have done in a reserve game or a home game later on in the season, some of them have a long way to go but you certainly couldn’t fault their commitment or their effort.
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  22. #122
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    Outmuscled,
    we lack a big "angry dog" impact forward.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side Of The Moon View Post
    Honestly , did anyone really expect a saints win tonight ? And the. Al taken out prior . Warrington must have thought they were dreaming .

    No issues at all . Total team disruption and warrington took advantage of it. Fair play to them
    We missed Hill.... with him on the pitch we would have been better :-)
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    Thompson - 112 metres from 16 carries.
    Paulo - 92 metres from 14 carries.
    LMS - 111 metres from 15 carries.
    Lees - 48 metres from 13 carries.
    Ashworth - 48 metres from 13 carries.
    Batchelor - 0 metres from 1 carry.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

  25. #125
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    I've calmed down now from last night. The fact is we had 5 of our best players out, that isn't an excuse for dropped balls and penalties conceded though. But I think it does excuse the result which lets face it could've been worse.

    A few things I took from the game were:

    Full Back: I've said before Welsby isn't a FB, I know he did well against Salford but the game was over by then. Him and Lomax should've been swapped before half time.
    Penalties: Holding down far too much, if Woolf thinks we'll accept more Cunninghamesque type tactics he's a long way wrong.
    Ashworth: Again, I've said before he isn't a prop but have defended him too. At the moment he looks unfit and weak for the size of him, we'll probably have to put up with at prop until we get numbers back but after that he needs to lose some weight and play SR.
    Hooker: It clearly isn't working for Bentley as much as I like him as a player. I think we need bit the bullet and go with Smith/Eaves or Fages/Smith until Roby is fit and well. Preferably the former for me, Josh is 22 now and if he can't step up unfortunately he needs to move on.
    Centre: I was all for Costello starting and Naiqama on the wing, it clearly didn't work and Costello is rubbish. I don't know the answer but possibly put KN back to centre and playe Rizzelli on the wing, he can shift and is a decent size.

    Positives: LMS, Lees and Paulo stood up well on the back foot. We didn't get hammered (scoreline at least). It can be deleted from Sky+.

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