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Thread: Israel Folau

  1. #76
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk paulscnthorpe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simeon Stylites View Post
    The statements from the RFL and Superleague are unequivocal in their repugnance of IF’s views and the way they conflict with our sport’s values. The statements are equally clear in their disappointment at any club’s decision to sign IF, and RFL’s legal inability to prevent any such signing. If I were an owner or coach I’d not have to think twice about the problems signing someone with such views might present; if I were a player, I’d wonder how to negotiate a working relationship with such a person. But in doing the latter, I’d do my utmost to show that another, more positive world is available, open even to those people who think like IF. Wigan’s Pride move is a good start.
    Catalans seem to have gotten off lightly, they have however taken on Greg Bird (GBH), Joel Tomkins (Rectum of Wigan), Sa (Assault) Todd Carney (numerous drunken crimes) Edwards (domestic assaults) so we shouldn't be surprised really

    And those are the ones off the top of my head. Not to say Saints don't have their sinners, but nothing to that effect

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    I know. I was joking.
    Ha ha it's Ok Belgian, I know

  3. #78
    Banned Gerry Mander's Avatar
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    RL Admins are weak and spineless.
    They should have carpeted Catalans and not
    let it get to this.


    Actually Catalans would deserve it , if fans turn their back on the
    trip to Perpignan.

    The RL tourist euro is very important to them.
    A fan boycott would send a very clear message.

    Clubs and independent fan groups should skip organising
    trips for their clubs.

  4. #79
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    One thing im wondering is after games you often see the pacific islanders players coming together and praying. ( both teams together) . Will they include Folau in that now ?

  5. #80
    In The South Stand Tabasco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brook View Post
    One thing im wondering is after games you often see the pacific islanders players coming together and praying. ( both teams together) . Will they include Folau in that now ?
    It may well be that a lot of them share Folau’s views given that several high profile “English” rugby union players from the Pacific islands supported the initial postings regarding hell-bound “sinners”. If that is the case, hopefully, they’ll keep their views private.

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    I'm afraid this just shines a light on my own hypocrisy, or at the very least being utterly blinkered. No one was more pleased when we signed Ben Barba, and he absolutely lit up the season (or at least half of it) when he was with Saints. IIRC he was never charged with anything in Australia, before or after his stint with Saints, but clearly he behaved very badly.

    I couldn't help but gloat when the footage of the Tomkins brothers emerged in that pub the other season, or Tautai's DUI, or Hardaker's transgressions. Dear, dear, the culture in Pieland.

    Is what Folau tweeted worse than hitting your partner, or abusing bar staff, or drunk driving? If he'd done it here, would it constitute a hate crime? Is it even a case of like for like?

    If Saints had signed him, would I have boycotted TTW stadium this season? Should I have boycotted our team when I knew that Barba had signed? What about Saints v Cat this season?

    It's a moral maze.

  7. #82
    In The South Stand Tez the Saint's Avatar
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    Struggling to understand why we cut Ben Barba out of the game completely, won’t let him go anywhere near a rugby field but are happy to ‘accept’ this bloke in the competition.
    Steve Prescott MBE (1973-2013)
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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    For what it’s worth I don’t believe he should be denied a contract because of what he said. Yes it’s stupid and offensive, but we can’t be ending careers over stupid and offensive opinions. He’s ruffled a few feathers, he’s created some enemies but he’s not killed anyone. He’s basically quoted some religious nonsense. Stop him earning a living because of it, surely not!?

    By the way, what he said was ridiculous and I don’t agree with a word of it, but the same goes for most things to do with religion.
    I think it is actually more serious than some are making out. NZ and Australia ( to a lesser extent) have high youth suicide rates - many experts attribute much of this to how they feel they are stigmatised for their sexuality etc. I dont think we should forget the impact the words a well recognised personality has- and Folau has not only said this on social media but " preaches" it to large audiences via his relatives churches.

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    I still can't understand how they got him under the salary cap. I am sure he won't come cheap.

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    Moderator Div's Avatar
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    Elstone held in high regard here! I was advised by another RFL employee that he is on excess of £400k pa. Not bad for achieving so little!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tilly2006 View Post
    I still can't understand how they got him under the salary cap. I am sure he won't come cheap.
    Either the marquee ruling or the union player one ( not sure if that applies to a returning league player though but he has been out of the game for 10 years)

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    Quote Originally Posted by brook View Post
    Either the marquee ruling or the union player one ( not sure if that applies to a returning league player though but he has been out of the game for 10 years)
    Returning talent pool dispensation - Any Player who has not previously played Rugby League in the 5 years prior to signing is given a value of 50% of his true value in the first year of his contract and 75% of his true value in the second year.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    I wonder if SBW will refuse to take the field with him on the grounds that his name is Israel?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tez the Saint View Post
    Struggling to understand why we cut Ben Barba out of the game completely, won’t let him go anywhere near a rugby field but are happy to ‘accept’ this bloke in the competition.
    Barba had lots of chances but he was also in an environment where the commercial side of RL is much higher profile and therefore visible for judgement. The fact he still ••••ed up badly (again) meant it was game over. I dont recall Folau being busted for drugs or battering his missus. Its not a good comparison IMO.

    The mitigation here is Barba (despite multiple transgressions) is however clearly remorseful for his actions. Folau is totally at ease with what he has said and is not remorseful at all. I don't buy the apology as part of the ARU settlement for one moment. It was totally money motivated. At least Barba’s actions were’nt directly advocating intolerance of others.
    Last edited by eddiewaringsflatcap; 28th January 2020 at 22:23.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    I also think that Wigan quickly announcing that their game v Catalans will be a Gay Pride game a little bit media grabbing..
    Their recent history of players behaviour leaves a lot to be desired.
    Exactly.
    Absolutely ludicrous that they are trying to push the moral high ground with this going off the behaviour of some of their players.

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    Good signing for me.

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    Learning All The Songs Mike Stephenson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simeon Stylites View Post
    The statements from the RFL and Superleague are unequivocal in their repugnance of IF’s views and the way they conflict with our sport’s values. The statements are equally clear in their disappointment at any club’s decision to sign IF, and RFL’s legal inability to prevent any such signing. If I were an owner or coach I’d not have to think twice about the problems signing someone with such views might present; if I were a player, I’d wonder how to negotiate a working relationship with such a person. But in doing the latter, I’d do my utmost to show that another, more positive world is available, open even to those people who think like IF
    The reality is that professional sport is about winning. Like it or not. We've seen athletes/clubs in all sports do whatever it takes when accolades, money and fame are involved, including cheating the salary cap rules and doping etc.

    Catalans feel they have a better chance of being successful with Folau in the squad. I heard a couple days ago they were trying to convince Josh Dugan to sign but to no avail. Perhaps they've then gone for Folau as an available alternative. He's a talent and whilst I don't support his beliefs, I'm sure I'm not the only one interested to see how he goes. Why? Because I'm a fan of the sport.

    Where do we think he will play? Catalans have some talent in their squad now and with the two new halves (Maloney & Drinkwater), you'd think Tomkins will be at full back, not sure he'd fit in elsewhere. So perhaps in the centres to replace Wiliame? Would provide some strike with Mead on the other side.

    Regards,

    STEVO
    Last edited by Mike Stephenson; 28th January 2020 at 23:29.

  18. #93
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tez the Saint View Post
    Struggling to understand why we cut Ben Barba out of the game completely, won’t let him go anywhere near a rugby field but are happy to ‘accept’ this bloke in the competition.
    I don't think there is any comparison between physically beating up your wife and spouting the antediluvian rubbish that Folau came out with. I don't think that he should lose his livelihood over his antiquated morals, but I wish he hadn't been signed in SL

  19. #94
    In The South Stand Tez the Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    I don't think this comes down to what comments people agree / disagree with its about what image these incidents portray our sport as. I think at best most people will have considered his comments distasteful.

    One of the main things for me is the lack of consistency with how the game treats different people whether it's drugs cheats or physical violence.

    Ben Barba has effectively had his career taken away. Yet, a lad from St Helens was recently convicted of throttling and beating his girlfriend but has been allowed to sign for Rochdale.

    If we are effectively setting out a moral code for the sport then the powers that be need to set the boundaries and apply them consistently.
    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    I don't think there is any comparison between physically beating up your wife and spouting the antediluvian rubbish that Folau came out with. I don't think that he should lose his livelihood over his antiquated morals, but I wish he hadn't been signed in SL
    I’m not comparing the incidents but as Div says, I think they need to set some boundaries and guidelines in terms of how these decisions should be made because there doesn’t seem to have been a great deal of clarity or consistency over the years. With topics like this, I think there needs to be.

    From a rugby point of view it’s a big decision from Catalan. Steve McNamara will have his hands full there.
    Last edited by Tez the Saint; 29th January 2020 at 01:35.
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  20. #95
    In The West Stand Ralph Fridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Barba had lots of chances but he was also in an environment where the commercial side of RL is much higher profile and therefore visible for judgement. The fact he still ••••ed up badly (again) meant it was game over. I dont recall Folau being busted for drugs or battering his missus. Its not a good comparison IMO.

    The mitigation here is Barba (despite multiple transgressions) is however clearly remorseful for his actions. Folau is totally at ease with what he has said and is not remorseful at all. I don't buy the apology as part of the ARU settlement for one moment. It was totally money motivated. At least Barba’s actions were’nt directly advocating intolerance of others.
    Yet when you look at his Twitter posts of 9th September & 18th September 2018, he states how anything material is secondary (to his religion).

    Would have thought he'd have just let the money go then. But it appears he didn't. Pity he can't back his words up with actions.

  21. #96
    In The West Stand Ralph Fridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    As I understand it he legally couldn’t do it. The RFL had to sanction it because he has not been convicted of anything and it’s down to individual clubs to decide on their playing roster.
    But didn't the RFL Tell a newspaper recently that they have the 'ultimate' decision and can veto a player's registration if they felt the game was being brought into disrepute?

    It just seems they lurch from one horlicks to the next to me, with their stance & regulations completely up the wall.

    2 days before the start of the season & the sport is under the spotlight for all the wrong reasons. Again. Mind you, we are that far down the pecking order that I do wonder if the powers that be believe that they'll take anything to have the sport being mentioned in the press.

    The sport is heading up its own backside at a rate of knots. Utter chaos

  22. #97
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    Whatever happens the lad has a target painted on his back now. You can just hear the chants being penned.-will that put the game in a bad light again?....or not can the fans salvage the situation?
    Learned comment from The Don

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    I wonder if anyone will try and sign Barba after the way this has unfolded, I bet someone has been on to him or his agent if he still has one.

    I wouldn't btw after the way he treated us.

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    Catalan as a club are to blame in all of this. They should not have done it and thought of the good name of the game instead. Imagine the reaction if Wigan or Warrington had done this?

  25. #100
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tez the Saint View Post
    I’m not comparing the incidents but as Div says, I think they need to set some boundaries and guidelines in terms of how these decisions should be made because there doesn’t seem to have been a great deal of clarity or consistency over the years. With topics like this, I think there needs to be.

    From a rugby point of view it’s a big decision from Catalan. Steve McNamara will have his hands full there.
    I thought you were comparing them in the fact that Barba shouldn't be out of the game. If it's consistency you want, remember this is Rugby league administrators at work

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