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Thread: Rugby Union cap exemption

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    Default Rugby Union cap exemption

    I see Warrington are publicly in the market for a player from Saracens. This comes a week after Wigan said they weren't because they don't have enough money to even look. You've got to hand it to Warrington, Moran had consistently put his money in and they're really trying to be the best. Them eventually winning SL has an inevitability about it because they just keep spending and eventually they'll get it right.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...n-rugby-league

    Which got me thinking about Saints. I don't think we've talked about the Saracens situation publicly yet, not that I've seen anyway. But it seems like the Rugby Union dispensation from the cap is a great tool to find a potential diamond that we just don't seem to be utilising. I don't know anything about Saracens or who they've got or the likelihood of any of them joining us, but why not use it in general? It seems like it's there to be used, why not always have the spot filled with someone with potential? There are tons of Union players who don't make the cut for one reason or another, backs with real ability who can't progress because they can't kick or forwards that don't get big money moves because they can't scrum. Or the many players who simply upset the high brow Union hierarchy for one reason or another.

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    I think there's value to be had in looking at the lower levels of union etc but you lose that value when you're talking about top end players at Saracens unless they have a league background somewhere along the line. These guys come at a massive premium regardless of the cap exemption and they're a huge risk. Burrell last year as an example was trash.

    Granted, given time, they could become a decent RL player but the likes of SBW are just freaks who are capable of turning between the two like turning a tap. They're not the norm.

    There would be more value in bringing in another genuine marquee from the NRL for example, or even giving an opportunity to some of the guys playing in the Championship.

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    It won’t happen, the pinnacle of Rugby Union is Internationals, the true top end players will not walk away from that and the ones below that play a lot of Premiership Rugby whilst the internationals are on. You either look for young players who are in the Championship and possibly not going to make it who may be able to convert or get spent forces like Luther Burrell who are on their last legs in Union and think they can prolong their career by moving over to League, which is rather insulting.

    That said if someone was smart enough you could look at signing a couple of young Japanese players from the Sunwolves in Super Rugby, the Sunwolves cease to play in Super Rugby next year and there could be an opportunity to sign a player or two, potentially opening up a new market for the sport.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    I see Warrington are publicly in the market for a player from Saracens. This comes a week after Wigan said they weren't because they don't have enough money to even look. You've got to hand it to Warrington, Moran had consistently put his money in and they're really trying to be the best. Them eventually winning SL has an inevitability about it because they just keep spending and eventually they'll get it right.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...n-rugby-league

    Which got me thinking about Saints. I don't think we've talked about the Saracens situation publicly yet, not that I've seen anyway. But it seems like the Rugby Union dispensation from the cap is a great tool to find a potential diamond that we just don't seem to be utilising. I don't know anything about Saracens or who they've got or the likelihood of any of them joining us, but why not use it in general? It seems like it's there to be used, why not always have the spot filled with someone with potential? There are tons of Union players who don't make the cut for one reason or another, backs with real ability who can't progress because they can't kick or forwards that don't get big money moves because they can't scrum. Or the many players who simply upset the high brow Union hierarchy for one reason or another.
    Not one player at that club worth signing not skillfull or fit enough

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    Quote Originally Posted by mufcsaint View Post
    Not one player at that club worth signing not skillfull or fit enough
    Okay. Surely there are players in Fiji, Japan, France, NZ, Wales etc are worth looking at? It just seems like a great scheme to me and one we're doing ourselves a disservice not exploiting. Burrell at Warrington was poor last season, but he's being tipped to do well this year. They're very confident he's going to be a big hit now he's properly conditioned. They could end up with two players more than every other club. Got to be worth looking at, even if it's just a project player we end up offloading after a year or two. A lot of the Super League owners are kicking off at not being able to spend more on players, yet no one bar Warrington seem to be interested in this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    I see Warrington are publicly in the market for a player from Saracens. This comes a week after Wigan said they weren't because they don't have enough money to even look. You've got to hand it to Warrington, Moran had consistently put his money in and they're really trying to be the best. Them eventually winning SL has an inevitability about it because they just keep spending and eventually they'll get it right.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...n-rugby-league

    Which got me thinking about Saints. I don't think we've talked about the Saracens situation publicly yet, not that I've seen anyway. But it seems like the Rugby Union dispensation from the cap is a great tool to find a potential diamond that we just don't seem to be utilising. I don't know anything about Saracens or who they've got or the likelihood of any of them joining us, but why not use it in general? It seems like it's there to be used, why not always have the spot filled with someone with potential? There are tons of Union players who don't make the cut for one reason or another, backs with real ability who can't progress because they can't kick or forwards that don't get big money moves because they can't scrum. Or the many players who simply upset the high brow Union hierarchy for one reason or another.
    Bit of a gamble in more ways than one, if they sign a couple of Union blokes because of the exemption cap ruling then it could cause unrest in the camp. Signing a couple of Saracens won't come cheap compared to the current wire players who can play decent rugby league, pretty sure some established players might not be happy if they themselves are on less money.

    The likes of Goons and Saints will carry on with promoting within the club youth development, looks as though Dire put this kind of stuff on the back burner and don't plan long term.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Bit of a gamble in more ways than one, if they sign a couple of Union blokes because of the exemption cap ruling then it could cause unrest in the camp. Signing a couple of Saracens won't come cheap compared to the current wire players who can play decent rugby league, pretty sure some established players might not be happy if they themselves are on less money.

    The likes of Goons and Saints will carry on with promoting within the club youth development, looks as though Dire put this kind of stuff on the back burner and don't plan long term.
    Might be worth combining the two philosophies.

    Give an opportunity to some raw fringe/junior/7s RU players who might suit RL better?
    They won't be big money , but it gives an opportunity without impacting on the cap.

    If they work out then they can step up , if not then they are free to go back to union.
    Might make them more marketable back in union.

    Thinking in particular speedster wingers , post academy , around 20/21 , to become the next grace or offiah.

    Relatively low cost and low risk approach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    Okay. Surely there are players in Fiji, Japan, France, NZ, Wales etc are worth looking at? It just seems like a great scheme to me and one we're doing ourselves a disservice not exploiting. Burrell at Warrington was poor last season, but he's being tipped to do well this year. They're very confident he's going to be a big hit now he's properly conditioned. They could end up with two players more than every other club. Got to be worth looking at, even if it's just a project player we end up offloading after a year or two. A lot of the Super League owners are kicking off at not being able to spend more on players, yet no one bar Warrington seem to be interested in this.
    The catch is that by the time he's any good the exemption will have run out. If I remember rightly it's something like 0% counts on the cap in the first year, 50% the following year and 100% after that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    The catch is that by the time he's any good the exemption will have run out. If I remember rightly it's something like 0% counts on the cap in the first year, 50% the following year and 100% after that.
    Which if we find a diamond will be okay. We should be signing a Union player a year on a two year deal. We don't even have to register them for Super League in the second year or can loan them to the Championship if they aren't up to first team by then. It seems something worth exploring. It's a relatively low impact way of picking up a player or two from an avenue that would otherwise be closed off due to the development time needed and the cap implications.

    This is something that will become more and more relevant in the coming years. My lad is in the year before scholarships are handed out in League and a lot of the best players at that age are playing both codes as there is little overlap in the seasons currently. A lot of the best kids are ending up in Sale's academy as they see Union as being more lucrative and a bigger stage. Got to be something the club should consider if it's not already, same for the rest of the SL clubs, it's a potential goldmine.

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    That's where our reserve team should be trialing lower level RU players who may be more suited to league.

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    I’m not sure (and frankly, don’t care) what Saracens are going to do but I’d be inclined to look at their players aged 17-19 rather than a first team level player. That way, they can be a project and worked on over a number of years in the Academy and in the reserves, whereas you’ll spend much of this year, when the RU season ends in May/June trying to bring them up to speed and then next year, they’ll want out and back to RU at the back end of our season.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    I’m not sure (and frankly, don’t care) what Saracens are going to do but I’d be inclined to look at their players aged 17-19 rather than a first team level player. That way, they can be a project and worked on over a number of years in the Academy and in the reserves, whereas you’ll spend much of this year, when the RU season ends in May/June trying to bring them up to speed and then next year, they’ll want out and back to RU at the back end of our season.
    The problem is any good young players may already be on a decent salary, and if they are a couple of years away from first team rugby then relegation probably won't mean much to them. Saracens will probably be back up in the next year or two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    The problem is any good young players may already be on a decent salary, and if they are a couple of years away from first team rugby then relegation probably won't mean much to them. Saracens will probably be back up in the next year or two.
    And the prospects for the younger players at Saracens of breaking into the first team are good given that the club is having to shed established players to bring itself under the cap. Much more opportunity of securing decent salaries by staying in union than chancing their arms by trying to transform into a successful league players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Newlove View Post
    That's where our reserve team should be trialing lower level RU players who may be more suited to league.


    Ah, memories of that super-versatile player 'A.N. Other' who could seemingly play all positions - sometimes two positions simultaneously

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    Excuse me chaps but have you had a look at our academy squad it's got lots of potential diamonds.
    Learned comment from The Don

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post


    Ah, memories of that super-versatile player 'A.N. Other' who could seemingly play all positions - sometimes two positions simultaneously
    Nowadays were being 15-16 stone and having 1% body fat allows you to play anywhere on the park it is common for players to be versatile as specialist positions have been dumbed down. But back in the day Mr Other was a pioneer, able to play full back, stand off, prop or hooker at the drop of a hat and seemingly able to put on or shift a few stone during the length of a single game.

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    I think the only player worth looking at (and the safest option) if he became available is Owen Farrell. Could easily do a job for us at 2nd row, can kick goals for fun and his leadership skills are second to none. There is more chance of me playing for Saints than him but still, he'd be the one I'd go for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintJon View Post
    I think the only player worth looking at (and the safest option) if he became available is Owen Farrell. Could easily do a job for us at 2nd row, can kick goals for fun and his leadership skills are second to none. There is more chance of me playing for Saints than him but still, he'd be the one I'd go for.
    I’d love to be in the same room as his dad when he found out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Nowadays were being 15-16 stone and having 1% body fat allows you to play anywhere on the park it is common for players to be versatile as specialist positions have been dumbed down. But back in the day Mr Other was a pioneer, able to play full back, stand off, prop or hooker at the drop of a hat and seemingly able to put on or shift a few stone during the length of a single game.
    He kept playing well into his eighties as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    I’d love to be in the same room as his dad when he found out.
    Haha, wasn't he close to joining saints around the turn of the millennium? Or he was talking to us to try and get a better contract.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintJon View Post
    Haha, wasn't he close to joining saints around the turn of the millennium? Or he was talking to us to try and get a better contract.
    Pan face? I doubt very much he was ever going to sign for us and I can't remember the rumour but will happily be corrected. One of the few things I liked about him was that he was a proper Wiganer in my eyes and hated us as much as we hate(d) him. Maybe it was around the time a recently departed Leeds coach upset him at Wigan.

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