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Thread: Why aren’t people watching rugby league?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Good thread. I sympathise with those that say we should try and make games more like 'events' but in theory we already have quite a lot during the season with Magic Weekend, Challenge Cup Final, Grand Final etc. If we wish to market the game properly and attract big 'celebrity' names to our game then these are the three weekends to do it. I don't see any evidence that we even bother trying to make any of these ready made events that special to be honest, which is a shame as Newcastle is full of students and also full of RU types who latch on to things especially outside of the football season. Maybe try not to play MW on the same day as the FA Cup Final for a start. The Aussies now have their MW, and I bet more effort went into marketing their first one last year than we've out into ours in the 14 years it's existed here.

    The Cup Final being moved forward should give us an opportunity for it to become one of the big Summer events if we market it right. It's in London, it's on free TV, and it's not going head to head with the 3rd or 4th weekend of the new football season for a change. If marketed well it could become a bigger event, and with proper BBC input it could be hyped up as one of the 'events of the BBC Summer'. When they do those promo videos hyping up their summer of live sport we should see the Challenge Cup Final on there alongside Wimbledon, Euro 2020, Olympics, The Hundred etc.

    These are the weekends when we should be doing more, because it wouldn't actually take that much effort to improve the image and stature of them. In the new TV deal we need to get at least one game per day from Magic Weekend live on free TV to showcase club RL being played infront of 40,000. With the Cup Final only a couple of months later on we could then have two weekends in the football off season when RL is on free TV being played in front of big crowds. But it needs to be marketed, and it needs to be showcased.

    The rest of the season should not be used to attract whoppers and fly-by-night Z list celebrities. RL has something unique in modern sport, namely authenticity and clubs that have real connections to their roots. I agree with the comments above about the Darts and certain big club RU showpiece events where it is quite obvious that half the crowd couldn't care less about what is going on. Watching a darts player lining up for a match winning double at Ally Pally whilst 1,000 beered up 'fans' in fancy dress are chanting 'Yaya Toure' whilst ignoring the pivotal thing that they've paid loads of money to witness is not something I would wish on any serious competition that I was passionate about. Imagine seeing thousands of RL 'fans' in fancy dress chanting 'stand up if you love the League' with their backs turned to the pitch whilst someone is lining up a match winning conversion, etc. No thanks.

    Whilst we may decry the lack of atmosphere and the sanitised new grounds compared to ones some of us grew up with (and I do that all the time) at least when you turn up for a game you know everyone is there for the right reasons. Magic Weekend and to some extent the Cup Final are ideal events to attract new people, celebrities, non RL media in to the game. Use them, promote them and prioritise them as the big marketing weekends for the club game, and of course the Ashes Series and the 2021 RLWC are massive as well for the game. Do those things right and we don't need to worry about the rest.
    Good post. Agree with all of it. Just wanted to touch on the celebrity issue and mention that no one works harder in promoting RL (especially PDRL) than Adam Hills. An outstanding ambassador for the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Good thread. I sympathise with those that say we should try and make games more like 'events' but in theory we already have quite a lot during the season with Magic Weekend, Challenge Cup Final, Grand Final etc. If we wish to market the game properly and attract big 'celebrity' names to our game then these are the three weekends to do it. I don't see any evidence that we even bother trying to make any of these ready made events that special to be honest, which is a shame as Newcastle is full of students and also full of RU types who latch on to things especially outside of the football season. Maybe try not to play MW on the same day as the FA Cup Final for a start. The Aussies now have their MW, and I bet more effort went into marketing their first one last year than we've out into ours in the 14 years it's existed here.

    The Cup Final being moved forward should give us an opportunity for it to become one of the big Summer events if we market it right. It's in London, it's on free TV, and it's not going head to head with the 3rd or 4th weekend of the new football season for a change. If marketed well it could become a bigger event, and with proper BBC input it could be hyped up as one of the 'events of the BBC Summer'. When they do those promo videos hyping up their summer of live sport we should see the Challenge Cup Final on there alongside Wimbledon, Euro 2020, Olympics, The Hundred etc.

    These are the weekends when we should be doing more, because it wouldn't actually take that much effort to improve the image and stature of them. In the new TV deal we need to get at least one game per day from Magic Weekend live on free TV to showcase club RL being played infront of 40,000. With the Cup Final only a couple of months later on we could then have two weekends in the football off season when RL is on free TV being played in front of big crowds. But it needs to be marketed, and it needs to be showcased.

    The rest of the season should not be used to attract whoppers and fly-by-night Z list celebrities. RL has something unique in modern sport, namely authenticity and clubs that have real connections to their roots. I agree with the comments above about the Darts and certain big club RU showpiece events where it is quite obvious that half the crowd couldn't care less about what is going on. Watching a darts player lining up for a match winning double at Ally Pally whilst 1,000 beered up 'fans' in fancy dress are chanting 'Yaya Toure' whilst ignoring the pivotal thing that they've paid loads of money to witness is not something I would wish on any serious competition that I was passionate about. Imagine seeing thousands of RL 'fans' in fancy dress chanting 'stand up if you love the League' with their backs turned to the pitch whilst someone is lining up a match winning conversion, etc. No thanks.

    Whilst we may decry the lack of atmosphere and the sanitised new grounds compared to ones some of us grew up with (and I do that all the time) at least when you turn up for a game you know everyone is there for the right reasons. Magic Weekend and to some extent the Cup Final are ideal events to attract new people, celebrities, non RL media in to the game. Use them, promote them and prioritise them as the big marketing weekends for the club game, and of course the Ashes Series and the 2021 RLWC are massive as well for the game. Do those things right and we don't need to worry about the rest.
    As always, when you write about promoting the game you are spot on.

    Everyone complains about the Sky robots but I wish the BBC would drop the cartoon giants. One of their promotions of RU shows a player standing before a game with the Welsh national Anthem playing and it has a lot more impact than robots and giants.

    The sort of footage Sky showed at the end of the GF would be good. Some game highlights in slow motion and normal speed with accompanying music. Sky are good at those edits. It’s a shame that they don’t use them when promoting games. The BBC showed similar footage of World Cup games after the Australian v NZ final at Old Trafford and it was really impressive. Some of Sky’s edits make poor games look like they were brilliant.

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    A new rugby league club based at Liverpool St Helens RU ground at Moss Lane has been formed recently, namely Liverpool St. Helens Rugby League, so there is still some life in the old dog yet -
    https://twitter.com/LSHRLFC

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    Lack of exposure with Sky dominating the coverage of the domestic game, and it just not being attractive enough a pull for anyone else to get involved - the less people see something the less they are inclined to think about it or want to get involved.
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    Maybe the sport just isn't that good

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Maybe the sport just isn't that good
    It certainly hasn't been anything like as good from around 2009 onwards in terms of being an entertainment spectacle, too defence orientated, and attacks have developed to be attritional.

    Grey makes a good point about celebrities at big RL events. PR has evolved into creating a 'social desire' to own or be associated with a product/service. If the product is desirable to the general public - 'in fashion' if you like - then people will want to be associated with it. There's different ways to generate this desirability, and certainly the association with a certain type of celebrity is one. Got to appear credible, though; there's no point in bringing in a couple of Love Island bimbos (male or female) from the Home Counties to say how much they love rugby league, because people wouldn't believe them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Maybe the sport just isn't that good
    Not sure anyone can disagree with that.
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    Doesn't help when those who are meant to be running and marketing the game (the RFL) are just completely incompetent at it. Rugby Leagues social media presence pales in comparison to our posh cousin, just look at Twitter, the England Rugby Union twitter account has over a million followers, where as the RFL and England Rugby League accounts have 170 thousand between them, probably with a lot of overlap between the two.

    Given the sport doeant really sell itself at the minute the RFL should be doing as much as it can across as many platforms as possible to generate interest, for example, have we seen any advertisements on Sky about the season which is 9 days away?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsepho View Post
    Doesn't help when those who are meant to be running and marketing the game (the RFL) are just completely incompetent at it. Rugby Leagues social media presence pales in comparison to our posh cousin, just look at Twitter, the England Rugby Union twitter account has over a million followers, where as the RFL and England Rugby League accounts have 170 thousand between them, probably with a lot of overlap between the two.

    Given the sport doeant really sell itself at the minute the RFL should be doing as much as it can across as many platforms as possible to generate interest, for example, have we seen any advertisements on Sky about the season which is 9 days away?
    I agree totally with this. Ive said it before on other threars. Union is able to attract casual fans by constant advertising.

    Ive seen more advertising or promotion of the Lions Tour to SA next year than I have for the Super league starting this season.


    1 advert came on Sky and I was visiting the wifes grandad in glasgow. To which he said to me "I always watch the rugby on the friday, shame we dont have a team up here"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsepho View Post
    Doesn't help when those who are meant to be running and marketing the game (the RFL) are just completely incompetent at it. Rugby Leagues social media presence pales in comparison to our posh cousin, just look at Twitter, the England Rugby Union twitter account has over a million followers, where as the RFL and England Rugby League accounts have 170 thousand between them, probably with a lot of overlap between the two.

    Given the sport doeant really sell itself at the minute the RFL should be doing as much as it can across as many platforms as possible to generate interest, for example, have we seen any advertisements on Sky about the season which is 9 days away?
    I've seen one advert on Soccer Saturday on the Saturday just gone. Thats it and considering the amount of Football/NFL and Cricket i've been watching over the last few weeks thats pretty shambolic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barry View Post
    I've seen one advert on Soccer Saturday on the Saturday just gone. Thats it and considering the amount of Football/NFL and Cricket i've been watching over the last few weeks thats pretty shambolic.

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    Showing again how much Sky actually think/care about promoting RL compared to other sports.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBT View Post
    Showing again how much Sky actually think/care about promoting RL compared to other sports.
    The thing is, unless they have a person with a RL background at Sky pushing it's agenda then why would they? They have a monopoly on it anyway, it doesn't cost them a great deal and it isn't that popular with the general public so I can see why they're not that bothered. As someone else mentioned though, I've watched a lot of sport lately and the advertising has been minimal to say the least and that's what ••••es me off about the RL leadership, they need to get on to Sky and push our cause but instead they're too busy coming up with petty rule changes and fining club chairmen for speaking out about their incompetence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    The thing is, unless they have a person with a RL background at Sky pushing it's agenda then why would they? They have a monopoly on it anyway, it doesn't cost them a great deal and it isn't that popular with the general public so I can see why they're not that bothered. As someone else mentioned though, I've watched a lot of sport lately and the advertising has been minimal to say the least and that's what ••••es me off about the RL leadership, they need to get on to Sky and push our cause but instead they're too busy coming up with petty rule changes and fining club chairmen for speaking out about their incompetence.
    Agreed.

    Small time thinking = Small time results

    The sport is happy to exist as the victim. 'We are still here. We are surving.' Like it's some sort of achievement

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Agreed.

    Small time thinking = Small time results

    The sport is happy to exist as the victim. 'We are still here. We are surving.' Like it's some sort of achievement
    Exactly. It must be incredibly frustrating for the likes of McManus, the bloke a Warrington and even Koukash who are forward thinking, willing to invest and want to push the sport when the they have to deal with the incompetent, self serving idiots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    The thing is, unless they have a person with a RL background at Sky pushing it's agenda then why would they? They have a monopoly on it anyway, it doesn't cost them a great deal and it isn't that popular with the general public so I can see why they're not that bothered. As someone else mentioned though, I've watched a lot of sport lately and the advertising has been minimal to say the least and that's what ••••es me off about the RL leadership, they need to get on to Sky and push our cause but instead they're too busy coming up with petty rule changes and fining club chairmen for speaking out about their incompetence.
    I agree in principal, but what good is pushing Sky to do anything about it, when there is no other serious competitor out there wanting to broadcast the games - and that is willing to pay more than Sky? Why should Sky be bothered to do anything or advertise something that has very little viewing interest, when they don't have to, when they don't have to spend any more money, when there is no one else out there to challenge them?

    And Sky have no need to employee such a person with that background because they have no need to, given there seemingly very little interest in the game and are happy to let it go on as it is while keeping a bit more sporting diversity on their channels.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBT View Post
    I agree in principal, but what good is pushing Sky to do anything about it, when there is no other serious competitor out there wanting to broadcast the games - and that is willing to pay more than Sky? Why should Sky be bothered to do anything or advertise something that has very little viewing interest, when they don't have to, when they don't have to spend any more money, when there is no one else out there to challenge them?

    And Sky have no need to employee such a person with that background because they have no need to, given there seemingly very little interest in the game and are happy to let it go on as it is while keeping a bit more sporting diversity on their channels.
    BT have an almost monopoly on club RU (domestic and European Cup) but they know that for most people that watch RU it boils down to the Six Nations or the World Cup. Their live RU Premiership games rate lower than the average Friday night RL on Sky, but they don't have a 'well, this isn't the Calcutta Cup or the Lions v All Blacks so why bother' attitude because they want to make their coverage as good as can be. Their weekly midweek show 'Rugby Tonight' is something that Sky should be replicating for RL. Reasonably cheap to do but gives fans a midweek show with a bit of analysis, conversation and highlights. Why did Sky ditch Boots N All? Why did they ditch Backchat? Sky will argue that neither show got a single person to subscribe, but it shows a lack of interest in the game outside of the schedule filling live games that they want. The BBC are also guilty of this, and in reality doing something better would be easier for them as they have a Manchester base. How difficult would it be to keep the guests of the SLS in the studio for an extra 30 mins and get them to do a Backchat style debate show and then show it on a Wednesday night on BBC2 or on the iplayer?

    So yes, they don't need to do it, and doing it won't get them more subscribers or viewers watching RL, but it would show that they actually care about the game. I would have thought that any self-respecting governing body would look at the main broadcasting partner and ask them what they are going to provide the sport, and have the self-respect to question them if they didn't believe the coverage was up to scratch. This isn't merely a Sky thing, it's also a BBC thing. Why is SLS on really late on a Monday night when the round of games begins 4 days earlier? SLS is now on closer to the start of the following round than it is to the start of the round it covers. It would be the equivalent of MOTD being on on a Tuesday night showing the goals from Saturday. Why does this happen?

    With the Cup Final being in July this year I'll repeat what I said the other day. The BBC (if they care) could make the Cup Final a big part of its Summer sport line-up. Dedicate a whole day to it like in the old days, promote it during the Euro 2020 and Wimbledon coverage (the Final is the weekend after the Euro 2020 and Wimbledon Finals), promote it during the live England v Australia T20 games the BBC will show in early July, etc. July 18th was chosen for a reason surely? Because the weekend before Wembley is booked for the Euros, and the BBC also have Wimbledon, and the weekend after is the start of the Olympics, also on BBC. The Final is on a 'free weekend' so to speak, so make the most of it.

    Also, if the BBC are at an England v Australia T20 game in July why not ask the England and Aussie cricketers if they follow RL? A few of the Northern English lads will be, and a fair few of the Aussies will be. Get them involved in doing something to promote the 'other' Ashes later in the year, talking about how this Ashes series is important and has history and importance in both countries etc. Stuff like that is so easy if you really want to do it, and will get alot more eyes on RL than having Maxine Peake walking around a coalmine dressed like it's 1935. They assume that stuff like that gets us Northerners emotional, but in reality it's patronising and makes everyone else think RL is not for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBT View Post
    I agree in principal, but what good is pushing Sky to do anything about it, when there is no other serious competitor out there wanting to broadcast the games - and that is willing to pay more than Sky? Why should Sky be bothered to do anything or advertise something that has very little viewing interest, when they don't have to, when they don't have to spend any more money, when there is no one else out there to challenge them?

    And Sky have no need to employee such a person with that background because they have no need to, given there seemingly very little interest in the game and are happy to let it go on as it is while keeping a bit more sporting diversity on their channels.
    This also works in reverse. I recall reading that the RFL were hardly encouraging other broadcasters as part of the overall tendering process. I think there was an article that said SKY were involved in over 20 meetings to discuss a new deal and BT less than 5. It was symptomatic of a sport ran so badly its principle leaders needed to mollycoddle SKY to maintain their influence. Fortunately Wood was jettisoned and the likes of Rimmer have been fired into the sun.

    It was a watershed moment when a new SLE governing body was setup; this because it signalled an end to the RFL and its old backsliding ways. The top clubs recognise fotr the sport to grow they need a separate body to represent their interests better and take improve the games commercial profile. Fortunately SKY may have a nasty surprise if they think the days when the RFK would roll over like a cocker spaniel waiting for a tummy tickle will continue. This from last month:

    "Super League are understood to be talking to a number of private investors, who are willing to put tens of millions into the competition in return for a share of future revenues T.he new partners will also be handed a key role in selling Super League's next television contract …. The next TV contract remains a concern, though, as the broadcasting landscape has altered dramatically since the current deal with Sky Sports was agreed in 2014, with the emergence of streaming services such as Amazon Prime Video and DAZN as major players in the market. In a worrying development for rugby league, Sky Sports have responded to a more competitive marketplace by focusing on retaining their key assets, such as domestic football and international cricket, and it is significant that their launch of specialist sports channels last year did not include one dedicated to rugby."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Good thread. I sympathise with those that say we should try and make games more like 'events' but in theory we already have quite a lot during the season with Magic Weekend, Challenge Cup Final, Grand Final etc. If we wish to market the game properly and attract big 'celebrity' names to our game then these are the three weekends to do it. I don't see any evidence that we even bother trying to make any of these ready made events that special to be honest, which is a shame as Newcastle is full of students and also full of RU types who latch on to things especially outside of the football season. Maybe try not to play MW on the same day as the FA Cup Final for a start. The Aussies now have their MW, and I bet more effort went into marketing their first one last year than we've out into ours in the 14 years it's existed here.

    The Cup Final being moved forward should give us an opportunity for it to become one of the big Summer events if we market it right. It's in London, it's on free TV, and it's not going head to head with the 3rd or 4th weekend of the new football season for a change. If marketed well it could become a bigger event, and with proper BBC input it could be hyped up as one of the 'events of the BBC Summer'. When they do those promo videos hyping up their summer of live sport we should see the Challenge Cup Final on there alongside Wimbledon, Euro 2020, Olympics, The Hundred etc.

    These are the weekends when we should be doing more, because it wouldn't actually take that much effort to improve the image and stature of them. In the new TV deal we need to get at least one game per day from Magic Weekend live on free TV to showcase club RL being played infront of 40,000. With the Cup Final only a couple of months later on we could then have two weekends in the football off season when RL is on free TV being played in front of big crowds. But it needs to be marketed, and it needs to be showcased.

    The rest of the season should not be used to attract whoppers and fly-by-night Z list celebrities. RL has something unique in modern sport, namely authenticity and clubs that have real connections to their roots. I agree with the comments above about the Darts and certain big club RU showpiece events where it is quite obvious that half the crowd couldn't care less about what is going on. Watching a darts player lining up for a match winning double at Ally Pally whilst 1,000 beered up 'fans' in fancy dress are chanting 'Yaya Toure' whilst ignoring the pivotal thing that they've paid loads of money to witness is not something I would wish on any serious competition that I was passionate about. Imagine seeing thousands of RL 'fans' in fancy dress chanting 'stand up if you love the League' with their backs turned to the pitch whilst someone is lining up a match winning conversion, etc. No thanks.

    Whilst we may decry the lack of atmosphere and the sanitised new grounds compared to ones some of us grew up with (and I do that all the time) at least when you turn up for a game you know everyone is there for the right reasons. Magic Weekend and to some extent the Cup Final are ideal events to attract new people, celebrities, non RL media in to the game. Use them, promote them and prioritise them as the big marketing weekends for the club game, and of course the Ashes Series and the 2021 RLWC are massive as well for the game. Do those things right and we don't need to worry about the rest.
    A good post but the negative to all this is Ralph Rimmer, surely the buck stops with him for the lack of promotion and advertising of our major events. I don't know, but does he have any outside business experience. He would hardly have been at the forefront of RL marketing with the likes of Sheffield and Hudds. With the appointment of Elstone, will he now be responsible for the marketing of SL?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    A good post but the negative to all this is Ralph Rimmer, surely the buck stops with him for the lack of promotion and advertising of our major events. I don't know, but does he have any outside business experience. He would hardly have been at the forefront of RL marketing with the likes of Sheffield and Hudds. With the appointment of Elstone, will he now be responsible for the marketing of SL?
    Clearly not as why would most SL clubs have effectively created a separate body. The RFL have been kicked into touch, they ll have absolutely nothing to do with the SL brand. The closest they will get is the Challenge Cup and international fixtures. Nomad are already looking at repositioning SL in the sports market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    A good post but the negative to all this is Ralph Rimmer, surely the buck stops with him for the lack of promotion and advertising of our major events. I don't know, but does he have any outside business experience. He would hardly have been at the forefront of RL marketing with the likes of Sheffield and Hudds. With the appointment of Elstone, will he now be responsible for the marketing of SL?
    But where is Elstone? 18 months ago he was everywhere, on the BBC, Sky, radio, every podcast he could get on shouting superlatives about Marketing and The Product and the New TV Deal. The only impact he appears to have had is by pricing Canal Sports out of their Catalans TV deal meaning we get less coverage.

    I don't want to repeat myself so I'll keep it short. I think Sky have just given up on RL. They have tinkered with things in the past, promoted "Monday Night Football" Saturday tea time games, Sunday tea time games all gone for one reason or another. Now we can't even get on Main Event on a Thursday during Darts season and theres generally EPL/EFL on Friday nights when not on the off season. The game needs money. The players should be financially rewarded far, far more than what they currently are.

    I worry about the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barry View Post
    But where is Elstone? 18 months ago he was everywhere, on the BBC, Sky, radio, every podcast he could get on shouting superlatives about Marketing and The Product and the New TV Deal. The only impact he appears to have had is by pricing Canal Sports out of their Catalans TV deal meaning we get less coverage.

    I don't want to repeat myself so I'll keep it short. I think Sky have just given up on RL. They have tinkered with things in the past, promoted "Monday Night Football" Saturday tea time games, Sunday tea time games all gone for one reason or another. Now we can't even get on Main Event on a Thursday during Darts season and theres generally EPL/EFL on Friday nights when not on the off season. The game needs money. The players should be financially rewarded far, far more than what they currently are.

    I worry about the game.

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    His silence is part of the reason I wasn't sure if he was responsible. I just hope it was because of the off season or that he is busy working on something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    His silence is part of the reason I wasn't sure if he was responsible. I just hope it was because of the off season or that he is busy working on something.
    Ive already said - Nomad have been given responsibility to rebrand SL.

    A CEO just doesnt work on something as vast as this on his own, big leadership just doesn't work that way. He will have set out expectations and key requirements and Nomad are responsible for delivery.

    Repositioning a product isn’t something that can he achieved overnight. It takes patience, skill and intelligence. Especially when the previous governing body drained a large portion of RLs credibility amongst its key stakeholders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Ive already said - Nomad have been given responsibility to rebrand SL.

    A CEO just doesnt work on something as vast as this on his own, big leadership just doesn't work that way. He will have set out expectations and key requirements and Nomad are responsible for delivery.

    Repositioning a product isn’t something that can he achieved overnight. It takes patience, skill and intelligence. Especially when the previous governing body drained a large portion of RLs credibility amongst its key stakeholders.
    Who are Nomad?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    Who are Nomad?
    Some design company that were involved in the Premier League rebrand. It was early last year they started being mentioned in rugby league circles so they've probably made some progress by now you would think

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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    Some design company that were involved in the Premier League rebrand. It was early last year they started being mentioned in rugby league circles so they've probably made some progress by now you would think
    Cheers. As much as I hate what the PL has become you can't knock it's success so they must know their onions.

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