Remember Steve at Hornets. Won the pools did he not?
Remember Steve at Hornets. Won the pools did he not?
Think I'm on my own for this, but Matautia - so ill disciplined, penalty machine and knocked the ball on at least once every single game.
I thought he was quality. Didnt play well every game but he was a right handful when he did. Remember him turning the game around for us at Wigan once on a dreadful pitch. Think we were 22-12 down with 10 left. He came on & wreaked havoc. Set Sculthorpe up for a try. Long kicked the goal to tie the game 22-22.
He was good in the WCC against Brisbane as well
Couldn't STAND Atcheson, Ropati came and took ages to bed in, from recollection I'm sure he was injured when we signed him. Turned into an absolute pearl of a player... almost legend I'd say at the time. Definitely someone who helped us push the full timers all the way.
Have a quick look at 'The Last Days Of Knowsley Road' here http://saintsbook.wordpress.com/
1. Paul Wellens
No one ever disliked Wello but his legacy is very different between fans. Some rank him as all time legend on par with Scully and Lyon. A minority see him as a solid club man that always tried his best looked good in a great team. The majority are somewhere in the middle.
2. Matty Dawson
Probably more haters than fans but Matty was always given a hard time for not being a Saints product (a common theme in this list). Some looked at him as a squad player that always tried his best others though of him as a mediocre player that blocked the way for a better junior to get in the team.
3. Jordan Turner
A talented player with person issues. Jordan was signed on the back of a good performance against us (this never ends well).
4. Gary Wheeler
A talented youth player plagued by injuries. Many people seemed to hold Gary's injuries against him, others were hoping one day he would mature and turn into a club great. This never happened, however the fans that called him Gary Biscuit would have also shipped Lomax out and he did eventually come good.
5. Francis Meli
A great player that was plagues by a small number of important games where he made silly choices.
6. Danny Richardson
A few candidates here, Lee Gaskell was a similar player, but the divide seems bigger for Danny. We will have to see if Danny can prove the club wrong and people who just don't rate him are correct. It is too early to tell.
7. Kyle Eastmond
I am surprised he has not featured more. The Heir to Sean Longs throne was always going to split opinion. In the end his injuries spoiled any chances of proving his doubter wrong. Let be honest some people just didn't like Kyle on principle.
(Honorable mention to Matty Smith and Lee Briers)
8. Vila Matautia
Another strange one. It is easy to argue that Vila's use as a bench impact player resulted in his reputation as a short minutes, "lazy" player. Got signed by playing well against us, see Jordan Turner.
(Honorable mention Tony Puletua/Mose Masoe, who have similar reputations.)
9. Scott Moore
I am alway happy to admit I am wrong. I didn't know why, 15 or so years ago, we were playing this Roby kid and not Moore. Viewed as many as the future of the club he was farmed out to teams such and Cas and Huddersfield and became an international. However personal issues were his down fall more than ability. He would also always take a dummy.
(Honorable mention to Stuart Howarth)
10. LMS
Very popular and hated at different points of his career. He always looked good in the good teams and poor in the bad ones.
11. Tim Jonker/ John Stankevitch
Again this is down to expectations. As squad fodder these boys did well. However there would often make mistakes and a lot of fans thought they just didn't belong in the shirts.
12. Chris Flannery
Again this is down to what we expected. If you expected a SOO quality player then Flannery was a massive disappointment. If you wanted a solid worker he was a great player that never made a mistake.
13. Jon Wilkin
Another player disliked for who he is/was. Never really lived up to his potential and his desire to be on TV was for many people this was the cause of his under achievement.
I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.
Strangely enough, I stood near to someone in the Paddock at Knowsley Road who thought that Wellens was useless and forever highlighted any errors. He also argued that Wellens should have run with the ball whenever he passed and vice versa (he also didn’t like Tommy Martyn and similarly complained about passing/running/kicking on the last tackle). One particular gripe was whenever the opposition had a scrum in their own half and Wellens lined up opposite the first receiver, causing him to moan that there would be no last line of defence if he missed the tackle.
Totally agree about Wello. The only people I've heard say he wasn't at a required level are our Wigoon friends comparing and contrasting him to Rads, but we are the same in the other direction. Two great players though.
I’m surprised that Mose Masoe hasn’t been mentioned here yet. Hot and cold with him, sometimes he looked incredible and other times he’d look like he’d ate the menu at Chipmunk pre-match and could barely move.
St Helens Rugby League Football Club
Some great suggestions, chaps.
Going off my original criteria (including only players in the SuperLeague era!), my final selection would be:
1) Paul Atcheson
Not helped by the manner in which Steve Prescott left, and although a decent, steady player, his lack of dynamism meant he split opinion. His successor was a bit useful.
2) Francis Meli
A devastating runner and finisher on his day, his propensity for defensive brainfarts (especially defending a kick to the corner) drove fans nuts. A marmite player who could switch from hero to villain in the same game
3) Michael Shenton
After the procession of riches we'd seen at centre during the SL era, it was always going to be difficult to keep the run going, but this guy looked to have the ingredients. But only rarely hit the Castleford heights here, not helped by being played on the 'wrong' side. Went back to Cas and blossomed again.
4) Jordan Turner
Tore us open when he was at Hull, but didn't light up in the red vee. Bulked-up and moved position a lot, and criticised for his defence ('Jordan Turnstyle'). Some still think he wasn't anywhere near as bad as others do.
5) Chris Smith
Niggley bugger who could rile the opposition up effortlessly. Not a bad player by any means, and played his part in Hanley's winning season, but many fans just didn't take to him
6) Karl Hammond
Formed a great partnership with Goulding in the 96 season and had a great rugby brain, but never won round all his doubters and by the following season, Martyn had taken the '6' jersey and Hammond was playing LF. Went to London for a new challenge then onto Widnes but drifted out of the game
7) Danny Richardson
I may be proved wrong, but I think he'll develop into a top quality player. Most naturally gifted SH I've seen here since Long. But generates spitting hatred amongst some sections of the fanbase who are delighted he's moved on.
8) Luke Douglas
A real workhorse, who hardly missed a tackle and drove in endlessly for the hard yards. Yet derided by so many who expected and demanded a rampaging wall-buster.
9) Micky Higham
Toughest position to pick for, given the talent we've had since SL began. I barely heard any criticism of this guy, but others apparently did so he gets the place on the basis of recommendation!
10) Barry Ward
A cult hero to some; a fat, useless pudding to others. Was a hard runner with deceptive speed for a chubby guy, and no slouch in defence either. But listening to some, he was worse that Josh Perry.
11) Tony Puletua
Masses of ability and on his day could tear the opposition a new one, but often gave the impression he'd been listening to some Pink Floyd and passing round a bong before taking the field, such was his laid-back character
12) Chris Flannery
Never hit the heights many had expected when we signed him, but was a very good, solid player. With a big square head. Some fans recognised what he brought, others couldn't stand him.
13) Jon Wilkin
A hugely promising early career characterised by strong running, ball-handling ability and tough defence saw him earmarked as Sculthorpe's heir apparent. Yet he never kicked on to the next level. Not helped by being switched around the backrow and halves, he became the epitome of 'marmite' by the later years of his career. This exacerbated by his post-GF comments in 2014, and perceived chumminess with Cunningham, who was singing his praises every week despite Wilkin usually stinking the place out. Has provoked some hearty debate on this very site and amongst fans generally, and still very much splits opinion.
Honourable mentions:
LMS
A proper marmite figure for the first several years here, accused of only pulling his finger out when playing for a new contract. But his performances over the past few years have pulled pretty much everyone around and his effervescent personality makes him hugely opular
Kyle Amor
Never known a player whose form fluctuated so much between seasons, before his 'normal' became disappointing during Cunningham's time in charge. Another who has turned it round, his form for the past season and half being good.
Jamie Foster
Another promising youngster who some took an instant dislike to (not really for rugby reasons...) when he burst onto the scene with some hugely promising displays and skill - and a superb kicker. Sadly, his confidence got destroyed and his form plummeted.
Ryan Morgan
Never as bad as so many made out - and, like Douglas, a bit of a victim of being hyped-up by Cunningham. Didn't really sparkle, but there was always that nagging feeling there was a top quality player in there somewhere
Lance Hohaia
Heralded as a superstar, was bought to play a position he'd hardly played, next to a youngster breaking into the team. A recipe for disaster, which is pretty much what his time at Saints was judged to be by many. But he was never has awful as some like to say, and showed flashes of brilliance when in the right set-up with the right players around him. Yet will mostly be remembered for getting assaulted by Genkul Benneh Floower.
Mark Flanagan
Another workhorse, but after the signing was bigged-up most fans expected more, while others respected his workrate. Ironically nicknamed 'Flash' for his steady-Eddie style, he nevertheless won a GF medal playing scrum half.
Mose Masoe
A man-mountain who could scatter the opposition like skittles. But arrived unfit after a bust ankle (?) and struggled to be anything but a bit-part player here. Used badly by both Brown & Cunningham, who deployed precious little tactical cunning in how he was used. And castigated as 'lazy b*stard' by a large section of the fanbase.
Jason Hooper
It was always going be difficult to replace the retiring Tommy Martyn, and Hooper couldn't be a more different No6. A practitioner of the dark arts, some fans really appreciated him, whilst others never took to him. Did a lot of the unglamorous work and probably more appreciated with hindsight.