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View Poll Results: Best Loose Forward of the Decade?

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  • Chris Flannery

    2 2.94%
  • Jon Wilkin

    52 76.47%
  • Mark Flanagan

    0 0%
  • Morgan Knowles

    14 20.59%
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Thread: Redvee Team of the Decade: Loose Forward

  1. #1
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Blobbynator's Avatar
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    Default Redvee Team of the Decade: Loose Forward

    The final position to choose from is the Loose Forward position, which requires one vote from the four options I've selected for you. Morgan Knowles debuted in 2015 (he made 1 appearance) so I have included this season in the poll even though 2016 was his real breakthrough year. Jon Wilkin also included in this poll even though he played a lot of games in different positions.

    Please consider their performances from 2010 onwards.

    The four selections are:

    Chris Flannery (Three seasons 2010 - 2013)
    Jon Wilkin (Nine seasons 2010 - 2019)
    Mark Flanagan (Four seasons 2012 - 2016)
    Morgan Knowles (Five seasons 2015 - current)

    The poll will close in 7 days time.

    The team of the decade will be confirmed just before Christmas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Despondent Dave
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  2. #2
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    Gone for knowles but flanagan a close second

  3. #3
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    I think it has to be Wilkin, even though he stayed on well past his sell by date. Knowles not far behind him and would most likely have been ahead of him if he had 1 more year of the level of rugby he is currently at.

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    Morgan Knowles will become and probably already is a far superior player to Wilkin, but Jon's effort and impact at Saints should not be underestimated.

    I feel it's also throwing up some odd outcomes because of the positions. For example LMS could have been in this category, but instead was in the props one. How can you have a Saints team of the decade without him, it's just not right.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk STIDDY's Avatar
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    Easy one for me in Wilkin even though for periods he was forced into being a Jack of all Trades and Master of None. Don't think in my opinion Flannery,Flanagan or Knowles could operate at Hooker, Second Row, Loose Forward, Stand Off and Scrum Half, but as this is all about the Loose Forward role he shades it against the better potential in Knowles.

    Wilkin was handicapped in replacing Scully but no player could do that, but he still was pretty good in that pivotal role of connecting with the backs, he got a lot of critique in his last 2 seasons but over the full decade he has kept us ticking over especially when a team injury crisis started to bite for quite a few seasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    Morgan Knowles will become and probably already is a far superior player to Wilkin, but Jon's effort and impact at Saints should not be underestimated.

    I feel it's also throwing up some odd outcomes because of the positions. For example LMS could have been in this category, but instead was in the props one. How can you have a Saints team of the decade without him, it's just not right.
    Perhaps there should be a vote for a substitutes' bench.

  7. #7
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Blobbynator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    I feel it's also throwing up some odd outcomes because of the positions. For example LMS could have been in this category, but instead was in the props one. How can you have a Saints team of the decade without him, it's just not right.
    Certain players are probably victims of their own versatility. LMS has played several positions for us but the last few seasons have been at prop and they are arguably his better seasons for us. It puts him a tough category (our strongest category) but he's got to put somewhere. The risk of placing players in two separate categories means they could get selected twice and that defeats the object completely.

    I may do a 'best of the rest' category to select 4 subs from a list of players who got high votes but missed the 13.
    Quote Originally Posted by Despondent Dave
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    Certain players are probably victims of their own versatility. LMS has played several positions for us but the last few seasons have been at prop and they are arguably his better seasons for us. It puts him a tough category (our strongest category) but he's got to put somewhere. The risk of placing players in two separate categories means they could get selected twice and that defeats the object completely.

    I may do a 'best of the rest' category to select 4 subs from a list of players who got high votes but missed the 13.
    I think the 4 subs ia a must

  9. #9
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    Gone for Wilkin He got a lot of stick on here but over the decade he had more good games than Morgan Knowles. Though Morgan has been more consistent in the seasons he has played. If we had this poll in 3 years from now my vote would probably change.

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    I think Wilkin's best days at Saints were pre-2010, but I've voted for him (despite being tempted to vote for Knowles, whose performances over the pat 2 years have been a revelation)

    In those early 10's, Wilkin was becoming a frustrating player. We'd seen how good he could be in the previous decade, but he never kicked on to be a player who could take a game by the scruff of the neck and dominate, in the way a Sculthorpe could. Then, during Cunningham's reign, Wilkin - perhaps unfairly - became a lightning rod for a fair bit of anger towards Cunningham, especially as his on-field performances were generally poor and Cunningham was singing his praises in post-match interviews (whilst throwing young/inexperienced players under the bus). The accusations that Wilkin was interfering in the halfbacks doing their job might have been unfair, with him told to do a ball-playing job. Had a bit of a swansong when back playing as a running back-rower further wide in his last season or two.

    A great servant of the club, but far from a Saints great.

  11. #11
    Starting A Programme Collection Roger Moore's Avatar
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    Wilkin just shades it for me, I think Knowles rise has come just to late to make him the best in the decade.
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    In The West Stand Ralph Fridge's Avatar
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    Knowles for me

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    Given that we have made specialist players into utility players, Wilkin, LMS, Flanagan, Turner, etc, due to injuries, but then left them doing that role for a bit longer than we probably should have, should we have a vote for a 14th man? Who has been the jack-of-all-trades of the decade if you'd like?

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    Think I agree with the popular opinion, Wilkin for me as well. There’s a lot you could say about him, I don’t think there’s any doubt that his own performances suffered due to the different roles that he was asked to play but on the whole, I thought he dealt with it pretty well. I thought his last season was pretty strong as well as a 13 under Holbrook.

    What’s become apparent to me during these threads is how many injury hit seasons we’ve actually had and he probably felt that more than most having to switch between 6, 7, 11 and 13 so often. For me he had his fair share of good games in all those positions but consistency was a problem for him.
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    One of the trickier ones. Wilkin often frustrated me, and I think Knowles is basically a better player than him, but on the grounds of sustained contribution I've given it to Wilkin.

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    I’ve already mentioned my dilemma on the 2nd row thread but I’ve gone for Wilkin. I think Knowles will surpass him but for now I think it’s the right choice.

  17. #17
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    Wilkin for me too, he had some years where he struggled, but always seemed to be magnified more than any other player, still got through a ton of work in his final year, and made more yards and tackles than Knowles this year for comparison, albeit Knowles probably plays a similar game to what wilkin played in his early career.. I think we'd all agree we'd probably have taken Wilkin over Paulo this year!

    250+ games, fully deserved and hopefully in ten years Knowles walks the team of the decade

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    Wilkin for me. Always baffles me the amount of stick he got. Ran his blood to water time and time again for us, did whatever was asked of him and was always stuck his hand up when the going got tough. Paid the price for being compared to Scully and for being selfless enough to play out of position time and time again, despite it having a negative impact on his career. Thought the lack of acknowledgement of his contribution to the team and club was pretty poor from the club in his last season.

    Special mention to Knowles, up there as one of the first names of the team sheet for me, scary to think he's only 23!

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    As previously said no disrespect to wilkin but he was a great servant unfortunately thats all he was a servant he was never once in our top 3 players

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    Got to be Wilkin he's been a good captain messed around with his position in the side by no fault of his own. Morgan can have the next 10 yrs COYS

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rommel View Post
    Got to be Wilkin he's been a good captain messed around with his position in the side by no fault of his own. Morgan can have the next 10 yrs COYS
    I agree
    Knowles future captain for me when Roby eventually calls it a day.

  22. #22
    In The West Stand Ralph Fridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by St Nel View Post
    Wilkin for me. Always baffles me the amount of stick he got. Ran his blood to water time and time again for us, did whatever was asked of him and was always stuck his hand up when the going got tough. Paid the price for being compared to Scully and for being selfless enough to play out of position time and time again, despite it having a negative impact on his career. Thought the lack of acknowledgement of his contribution to the team and club was pretty poor from the club in his last season.

    Special mention to Knowles, up there as one of the first names of the team sheet for me, scary to think he's only 23!
    I don't think he helped himself after his self-congratulatory nonsense after the 2014 grand final win (the season that he missed a large chunk of as he was out injured).

    A good player who put his hand up time & time again. But if people are going to say that he always gave his best, then so did Hohaia, and he's pretty much hated.

    Wilkin isn't even close to Knowles. There is simply no comparison, I'm sorry. Knowles is the stand out 13 in the country already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    I don't think he helped himself after his self-congratulatory nonsense after the 2014 grand final win (the season that he missed a large chunk of as he was out injured).

    A good player who put his hand up time & time again. But if people are going to say that he always gave his best, then so did Hohaia, and he's pretty much hated.

    Wilkin isn't even close to Knowles. There is simply no comparison, I'm sorry. Knowles is the stand out 13 in the country already.
    I'll be honest I'm completely oblivious to what happened after the 2014 GF?

    I agree Knowles is already a better player than Wilkin at his peak - I guess it's the difference on whether you look at this poll as a 'who gave the most over the 10 years' or 'who was a better player when at their best during the 10 years'.

    I think with Wilkin it's more than he simply tried his best. I'm sure Jack Owens did his best. He'd make 30/40+ tackles week in week out, and really put his hand up again and again through what was a pretty dark patch in our clubs' history. He may not of been a world beater, but I don't think he ever went missing like some other, more talented, players did.

    I certainly don't think he deserved to be made into the scapegoat every week like he was for quite a large chunk of his final years

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    I don't think he helped himself after his self-congratulatory nonsense after the 2014 grand final win (the season that he missed a large chunk of as he was out injured).

    A good player who put his hand up time & time again. But if people are going to say that he always gave his best, then so did Hohaia, and he's pretty much hated.

    Wilkin isn't even close to Knowles. There is simply no comparison, I'm sorry. Knowles is the stand out 13 in the country already.
    Is Hohaiha hated? I don’t think he was a good fit but I think he was a good player. What happened to him in the GF was dreadful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    Given that we have made specialist players into utility players, Wilkin, LMS, Flanagan, Turner, etc, due to injuries, but then left them doing that role for a bit longer than we probably should have, should we have a vote for a 14th man? Who has been the jack-of-all-trades of the decade if you'd like?
    I think that's a really good idea. Certainly Wilkin and LMS have been integral to use winning trophies, yet have often played as utility players. Their roles should not be underestimated.

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